DAT-Heads Digest #105
Contents:
Jazz Newbie Grovel (Tom Boldway)
DA-302 Tascam (Kerry Richardson)
Re: D>A Etiquette Questions (Rob Garland)
Re: Tori Amos taping policy? (Chris Trumbore)
20bits to 16 (InBox) (Greg Hanssen)
Tanya Donelly FM DAT For Trade... - Pink Floyd As Well.. (Jonathan Mikos)
Re: SxSW ("Eric C. Honour, Jr.")
R300 problems and how it was fixed ("Kevin Monty")
Open Trees ("nick@tapetree.com")
D>A etiquette (no chilidog content) ("J. Haynes")
Re: SxSW New rules (James Simpson)
direction (wallyski@eden.com)
Watt "Engine Room" Tree 2nd announcement and Update ("Gary Davis")
From: jboldway@cottagesoft.com (Tom Boldway)
Subject: Jazz Newbie Grovel
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:25:16 -0600
Hello, I'd like to expand my musical tasts into some Jazz. Anybody willing
to help? I've got nothing yet.
Thanks!,
Tom
_______________________________________________________
When the sun's coming up I've got snakes on the griddle
"Who needs religion when you have music?"
From: Kerry Richardson <KerryR@ltn.tassie.net.au>
Subject: DA-302 Tascam
Reply-To: KerryR@tassie.net.au
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 12:29:25 +1000
Any list members have any experience of the Tascam DA-302? Looking at
buying one, and I'd like some feedback,
Thanks
Kerry
========================
Kerry Richardson.
www Tape Trading Page
http://www.tassie.net.au/~krichard/
From: Rob Garland <phishingruven@mindless.com>
Subject: Re: D>A Etiquette Questions
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 20:37:39 -0500
"John Blackmore" <blackmor@iconn.net> wrote:
>Soon after introducing myself to DAT, I made a massive D>A offer. Now
that
>I'm in the middle of it, I'm finding that on occasion I zone out/get
>preoccupied and miss the analog flip, so the last song on the side is
cut
>off. I include the entire song on the next side, but how does one
handle
>this? I've just been leaving a note like "sorry I f'ed up the flip -
it's
>around 38:35", or something like that. I can't imagine anyone generous
>enough to start over, and I refuse to believe this doesn't happen to
anyone
>else! Is a note even necessary?
This is something that happens to everyone and I'm sure everyone has
their own little method of dealing with it. Lemme tell you what I do:
If I miss a flip, I'll just rewind the tape to where I _should_ have
flipped and then just record blank space on top of the part that I
didn't intend to end up on side A. There's not a clean fade out this
way, but it works. Of course re-recording onto a tape is bad *but* I'm
recording blank space and it's also on a part of the tape where nothing
is supposed to be anyway. If anyone has any reasons why I shouldn't do
this I'd love to hear them (aside from "well if you did it right the
first time you wouldn't have to do that).
- Rob Garland
--== DAT list at: http://dat.home.ml.org ==--
"here's to feeling good all the time" - Cosmo Kramer
From: Chris Trumbore <cdt@op.net>
Subject: Re: Tori Amos taping policy?
Date: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 20:52:49 -0500
"David D. Rogers" <drogers@lightlink.com> wrote:
>\Does anyone know what Tori Amos' policy or attitude is towards
tapers and
>tape trading? I haven't heard anything definite. The closest thing
I've
>heard/read about her attitude is that she hates bootleggers, but
mainly
>because most bootlegs are of poor quality and she feels the fans are
>getting jipped. At the same time, I've never heard of anyone
taping her
>shows without stealthing.
To the best of my knowledge, taping is not permitted, but she
doesn't have a problem with fans taping/trading amongst themselves.
This is a pretty common attitude among "alternative" artists: even
though they publically declare that they're cool with taping, they
don't establish a "taping allowed" policy for whatever reason.
This is the case with the Cure and REM, to name a few.
>If she were to develop a clear policy (if she doesn't have one
already), it
>would certainly make things easier for me. :)
"Pro-taping" policies aren't too common in the "alternative" genre
of music, even Pearl Jam's attempts at allowing taping over the
past 2 years haven't been without complications (many tapers have
reported trouble with being allowed to tape despite the band's
efforts.) Most of the "pro-taping" bands I tape in that genre
don't even have an official policy drawn up.
--
Chris Trumbore
cdt@op.net
From: Greg Hanssen <hanssen@netcom.com>
Subject: 20bits to 16 (InBox)
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:58:39 -0800 (PST)
Just a little note here on dither, SBM, and our InBox.
A lot of people have asked how we convert 20bits to 16bits for
recording onto a DAT... As many of you know, the Sony SBM does some
fancy dithering tricks to give a few extra dB at around 3 or 4kHz
at the expense of some garbage at much higher frequencies.
But you're still more or less restricted to 96dB when you've got 16bits on
the tape..
Now if we really had 20bits (120dB) or even 18bits of real data, you'd
want to add some sort of dither noise to the signal before truncating to
16 bits to avoid a pure quantization (which the human ear finds offensive).
But for better or worse, the AKM5351 chip in the InBox is only giving us
around 98dB (that's about 16.5 bits). This actually works out well for
those of us in the 16bit world (DAT/CD) because there is just barely enough
natural noise in that bottom bit so as to prevent a perfect quantization
when truncating to 16bits... you might say it's a natural or built-in
dither. Either way, recording 16bits from an InBox works just fine.. and
if you do got through the effort to get all 20bits (like from a ZA2) then
you can still eek out another 2dB of S/N and maybe a bit more signal under
the noise.
My partner Mike Denecke says he's measured about 1/2dB better S/N on
the InBox compared to the SBM-1 but when it really comes down to it I'm
sure they both sound similar. I'd really be more interested to hear what
you Dat-Heads think though.
--
Greg <Hanssen@netcom.com> (714)-551-5833 Zefiro Acoustics
Zefiro Acoustics: The DAT to PC solution P.O. Box 50021
WWW http://www.zefiro.com Irvine, Ca. 92619-0021
--== Pro S/PDIF and AES/EBU digital audio interface cards for the PC ==--
From: Jonathan Mikos <thewho@igcom.net>
Subject: Tanya Donelly FM DAT For Trade... - Pink Floyd As Well..
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:00:44 -0600 (CST)
I caught a great FM of Tanya Donelly... (Former Lead Singer of Belly..)
Recorded here in Chicago, IL at the Double Door here in Chicago, IL 10/23/97.
The show runs 60mins..
A great show.. she does a Zombies cover tune, as well as an old Belly
song.. :)
I also recorded the Pink Floyd FM that was previously mentioned in one of
the digests.. Running Time about 72mins.
If interested please email:
Jonathan
thewho@igcom.net
From: "Eric C. Honour, Jr." <ech580@casbah.acns.nwu.edu>
Subject: Re: SxSW
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:12:39 -0600
Right, so here was the original post:
>From: wallyski@texas.net
>Subject: **ATTN SxSW**
>Reply-To: wallyski@texas.net
>Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 14:49:11 -0600
>
>hello. my company has obtained recording rights for much of the SxSW
>festival, so if you are planning on taping, you MUST clear it through us
>(Monsterbit Media) before attempting to record. If anyone is caught
>taping at any of our venues, all DATs and tapes including "blanks" will
>be confiscated and the taper will be ejected. We have the rights
>because we are going to broadcast the shows on the internet.
>Please try to adhere to these rules, and the festival will be enjoyable
>for everyone who has access to the internet.
>Check out our website at:
>http://www.monsterbit.com
>Thanks for the bandwidth. If you do want to tape at a venue that is not
>covered, please email me privately and I will do my best to help you
>out.
>Thanks again!!!!!
>Wally Skinner
>afro-weasel productions
Please note that there is NO mention here of what the artists desire.
There is nothing here that says that the bands involved don't want to be
taped -- there is only a bunch of posturing regarding tapers.
The last multi-band festival in which I performed (Harvestfest,
Gainesville, FL 94) required all bands to sign away their recording rights
(this is part of why I have never bothered to do another multi-band
festival). If you didn't sign, you weren't allowed to play. So did the
ban on tapers there actually reflect the artists desires? Not in my case.
This seems similar to the recently reported situation at the L.A. House of
Blues, where taping of taper-friendly bands is not allowed. How do we know
that your portrayal of the artists' wishes is accurate? You're hardly a
disinterested party.
So take this:
>From: wallyski@eden.com
>Subject: its really simple...
>Reply-To: wallyski@eden.com
>Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 14:22:40 -0600
>
[snip] The arguments that go on in DAT heads are
>riduculous. If you arent supposed to tape, then DONT. How hard is that
>to figure out? Its funny that you all "fight" for the non-bootlegging
>of shows (ie. fighting for the artists rights to the music), then you go
>and try to record a show that the band does not want to be rocrded.
>Pretty good morals. VERY logical. Just because the law says this
>nit-picky thing, it does not give you the right morally to record shows
>that arent supposed to be recorded by anyone but the affiliates of the
>band.
[snip]
and shove it, pal. If the artists come out and tell me not to tape, I'll
be the first one to put my deck away. Meanwhile, stop wasting the
bandwidth and making empty threats, please. BTW, while I'm not sure, I
doubt that it's entirely legal to take tapes away and run them across a
degausser even if you plan to give them back. I think the only thing you
can do is to sue someone who tries to use their recording for material gain
(and eject tapers who are caught, of course). Maybe one of the lawyers out
there can tell me (privately, since I'm sure most of us are tired of this
whole thing)?
Eric
==========================
Eric C. Honour, Jr.
Composer * Saxophonist * Graphic Designer
MMus (Saxophone Performance and Composition)
Northwestern University
MrTheory@no.spam.nwu.edu
==========================
Black holes are where God divided by zero.
From: "Kevin Monty" <hook@together.net>
Subject: R300 problems and how it was fixed
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 22:35:37 -0500
OK, I just got the Pcm-r300 back from Paul and here is what happened.
First some background on the problems. I started noticing that my r300 was
a bit sluggish on rewind/ffwrd, that I could deal with, but once the deck
warmed up and was playing a normal 60m dat, the deck would randomly stop
during playback. It would also read high errors on a clean master. So I
called Dat Genius Paul @ Pro-Digital. He assumed transport problems and
told me to send it in. So I did, thanks to Ken @ terrapin tapes for
providing his d7 so I could continue my tree duties, I believe it took 2-3
weeks for the deck to get fixed and here it is, back where it belongs. So
basically what Paul had to do was swap the motor (now a dtc-790 motor don't
know what it was before) and he also put in a new idler arm. I'm guessing
the idler arm was what was causing the deck to load the tapes wrong,
causing the transport problems and the new motor to fix the sluggish
rewind. I've been using the deck for about a day now with out problems. I
hope this fixes the problem. Now I realize many people have voiced their
opinions on r300 transport problems and all I know is what Paul told me and
what I experienced with my deck. Paul tells me he has been seeing more and
more r300's with similar problems as my r300. So it appears as though the
r300 does have transport problems. Now I know the part numbers aren't the
same...but different part numbers don't ensure different transport. I'll
trust what I experienced and what a person who repairs decks tells me more
than someone who runs a company selling decks. That isn't a jab at anyone,
its just a personal belief. Anyone who has experienced these things please
speak up, I know many of you haven't but I'm sure many of you have. Thanks
Kevin
From: "nick@tapetree.com" <nlayman@sprynet.com>
Subject: Open Trees
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 21:24:57 -0800 (PST)
On http://www.tapetree.com
Open trees:
3/5/98 String Cheese Incident
1/19/98 Jazz is Dead - 2/24/98 Little Feat Filler
11/29/97 Greyboy Allstars
2/9/74 Garcia & Merl
Closed trees:
2/11/98 Greyboy Allstars (Confirmations Soon)
2/5/98 Leftover Salmon (Confirmations Soon)
9/11/92 Dave Matthews (Strucuture Soon)
1/13/98 Jazz Is Dead (Strucuture Soon)
Upcoming Trees:
2/21/98 - The Ominous Seapods
11/28/97 - Hot Tuna
2/13/98 - Stir Fried - Filler: 2/16/98 Jorma
Peace........ Nick - nick@tapetree.com
1,083 DATs & 792 Analogs - Seeded Since 7/1/97 @ http://www.tapetree.com
From: "J. Haynes" <kc7fys@sa2.so-net.or.jp>
Subject: D>A etiquette (no chilidog content)
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 14:28:24 +0900
>Soon after introducing myself to DAT, I made a massive D>A offer. Now that
>I'm in the middle of it, I'm finding that on occasion I zone out/get
>preoccupied and miss the analog flip, so the last song on the side is cut
>off. I include the entire song on the next side, but how does one handle
>this? I've just been leaving a note like "sorry I f'ed up the flip - it's
>around 38:35", or something like that. I can't imagine anyone generous
>enough to start over, and I refuse to believe this doesn't happen to anyone
>else! Is a note even necessary?
I don't think so! As long as all the material is included entirely on the
other side--who has time to sit there and listen to every dub you are
doing? The recipient can easily "trim" the offending partial tune off the
other side if he/she needs to.
Jonathan
>John Blackmore
>blackmor@iconn.net
>
From: James Simpson <jsim@flash.net>
Subject: Re: SxSW New rules
Reply-To: jsim@flash.net
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 14:16:16 -0800
wallyski@texas.net wrote:
"If you are lucky enough to get your deck in (good luck), and you are
caught taping, your DATs will be bulk erased and returned to you."
Does this mean you won't be giving out any board patches? Darn!
James
From: wallyski@eden.com
Subject: direction
Reply-To: wallyski@eden.com
Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 00:47:57 -0600
I do not know quite why this SxSW discussion has developed into such a
monster. Noone is out to get anyone, but some folks seem to feel that
taping at the festival would not be a good thing. There are plenty of
venues (like I mentioned before) that are participating in SxSW, and
many more that are not. Monsterbit is only involved with 8 of them. Not
too many. I do hope many of you who can decide to attend the festival.
The line up looks great. Once the shows that we are recording get
broadcast over the internet, the DATs will be up for trade by the tapers
who are working at the shows. I hope that everyone is not pissed off
because of the restrictions.
Again, please do not blame me for any of the taping rules. I have
nothing to do with making themn. I also assure you all that no laws
will be violated. the music on the DATs belongs to the band. I dont
see why anyone would argue with that.
Anyways, Im through talking about SxSW. Thanks for the bandwidth!
w
From: "Gary Davis" <gdavis@loop.com>
Subject: Watt "Engine Room" Tree 2nd announcement and Update
Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 23:54:24 +0000
Here is an update on the status of the Mike Watt "Contemplating the
Engine Room" punk-jazz rock opera tree and disc offer.
Having spent just over one month computer-editing the 2/6/98
(Jillian's, Long Beach) "Four-Man Opera" with both Nels Cline
and Joe Baiza on guitars (Steve Hodges, newly a member of the
Smashing Pupkins, on drums), I have pronounced it finished. I had
made 5 CDs to bring to the Watt show last night in Costa Mesa
(3/7). Listening to the disc on the drive to Costa Mesa, there was
one single bass note that I had intended to make louder, and forgot,
and also, a tiny bit of the end of the pre- "Liberty Calls" sound
effect/sample had been cut off.
So one revision later... and it is finally, finally, done, and just
now transferring to the DAT tree tape.
I've already laid out the J-cards, so both the tree tape and all disc
requests for this show, should go out this week!
I am making one change to the tree, dropping the McCabe's soundcheck
in favor of "Liberty Calls" from last night's show, with Nels Cline
doing an extended 9-minute guitar solo -- groovy!
THERE'S STILL TIME TO SIGN UP FOR THE TREE or request discs of any
of these Watt shows. Here is the original post (with updates):
=======================================================
Here is your "big chance" to hear some of my best tapes of Mike
Watt's "Contemplating the Engine Room."
For those who haven't heard this piece, the "Engine Room"
punk/jazz rock opera is one of the most daring and original
compositions of '97, combining a complete story with wide-ranging
musical work featuring soft, delicate parts and loud, shreading jams.
Within the structure of the 15 songs, every performance and every
recording is different. If you liked my original "XY+V" recording
from the Garage, "you ain't heard nothing yet," because all the
subsequent recordings are better!
THE TREE TAPE
The 90meter tree tape will feature two performances: the ADAT/SSSS mix
from "The Gig" in West LA 12/15/97, and the newest SSSS "computer
enhanced" recording with *twin guitars* from Jillian's 2/6/98.
Filler will include the encores from McCabe's and Mr. T's Bowl, plus
the "Watt Outtakes & Comedy Bloopers" tape, PLUS, the latest
"Liberty Callis" jam with Nels Cline from Club Mesa, 3/7/98.
(60meter leafs will get both versions of the opera but will cut off
during the Jillian's encore).
For the tree: email to: gdavis@loop.com subject: WATT D>Dn
or WATT leaf ("n" is the number of copies you can make)
In the message, please let me know if you're outside the U.S., and
anything else interesting about WATT or NELS! This will probably be a
free-form tree where the first five will trade directly with me, and
the rest will trade with the first five.
All of the following recordings are also available for trade on DAT or
CD. The CDs are beautifully mastered with exciting Watt filler as
shown. (Trade: one recorded CD for one blank DAT + 4 stamps).
10/16/97 The Garage XY+V my first opera recording
filler = Dos (Watt+Kira) 9/23/97
12/05/97 McCabe's ssss raunchy not a great mix
w/ encore takes full disc
12/08/97 KXLU production board tape "cleanest" opera
filler = McCabe's encore
12/15/97 The Gig SSSS/ADAT "the best mix" wow!
filler = Watt outtakes and comedy bits
01/24/98 Mr. T's Bowl XY+V first 4-man opera /w Nels
/w encore full disc *remastered: this show sounds good now
02/06/98 Jullian's SSSS four-man (dual guitar) opera that ROCKS!
/w encore takes full disc
03/07/98 Club Mesa SSSS with NELS Clins shreadin' on guitar
/w encore takes full disc *coming soon*
10/15/95 Trax dSBD great show from '95 /w Nels Cline
Carla B. and members of Fibbers join at the end, Nels sings
Madonna song! *new offering of older show*
The ones I recommend most are the ones on the tree DAT: 02/06/98 (/w
Nels & Biaza), and 12/15/97 (8-track ADAT mixed in a "studio"). The
KXLU tape /w McCabe's encore is also good. The 10/15/95 Trax show is
a "must have" for Watt/Nels/Carla collectors!
For a CD: email me: gdavis@loop.com subject: WATT CD
If you'd like to propose a DAT trade for any of these tapes (or even
the bad shows: KCRW & El Rey), email with the subject: WATT TRADE
Nels fans don't worry -- I will have a similar tree/CD offer soon for
five recent Nels Cline performances.
--Gary
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