DAT-Heads Digest #765
Contents:
Re: DAT to WAV transfer ("Christian Schubert")
Please Tape the Sno-Core tour (Alex)
re: AKG 460's v. AKG 480's (Will Foy)
Re: Cable question (Andrew Haley)
Neil Young March 1999 tour (THB)
news from Opcode (Gianni Pavan)
iso: Patti Smith Bowery Ballroom 30/31.12.98 (Bill Pannifer)
BOOTLEGGER Warning (Robbie Dunn)
Teac DA-P20 44.1 or 48 kHz????? (Nick Ryan)
RE: computer cd burner setup (Mark McHarg)
RE: DAT-Heads Digest #763 ("Evan Lauber")
Re: DAT-Heads Digest #763 (James Treworgy)
Mixers ("Segal, Dan S159")
Misc Replies ("Andi Cowell")
From: "Christian Schubert" <schubert@physse.nlwl.uni-jena.de>
Subject: Re: DAT to WAV transfer
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:35:55 +0100
Dear Martin,
it is said that some Seagate DAT streamers (DDS 4mm DataCartridge)
can play Audio-DATs and extract the content to a WAV-file... but only
the most expensive models and only with a special and expensive software.
The other way ist to use the Line out of your DAT and a modern sound card
with good converters. There are some great PCIsound cards and they are not
as expensive as I expected, for example the Aztech PCI 338-A3D, the
Diamond Sonic Impact S90 and the Terratec Xlerate. But if you choose this way
you will have the quality loss of two conversions and you have to adjust the
recording level manually - not a good idea with the help of a software level meter
that is not synchronous to the signal because of the data buffer delay...
But it will work if you want to convert recordings that donīt have "CD-Quality",
like bootlegs, radio broadcasts...
S/PDIF connectors on sound cards often work not properly: there will be offsets
between the audio channels and other problems. The new SoundBlaster Live also
has problems when it is connected to a DAT, as reported in the German cīt Magazine.
I think the best way would be to feed your DATīs digital S/PDIF-Signal (Coax / Optical/
AES-EBU) into the computer via a special interface card. There are some models available, most of them using the old ISA Bus with slow and CPU controlled transfer modes.
But there is one card I can highly recommend: the RME "Digi32 / Digi96" series.
This card fits to the PCI slot and comes with drivers for Windows 9x and
Windows NT4.0. It appears like a sound card in the system and can be used with
all the well known audio programmes like CoolEdit, SoundForge, Samplitude...
The only limitation is that it will only support standard audio timings like 16 or 24 Bit
and 32, 44.1, 48 ... 96 kHz. Yes, the Digi96 supports already 24 Bit / 96 kHz for
DVD-Production!
More details under http://www.rme-audio.com/english/index.htm
The only problem: these cards are quite expensive but a bargain in my opinion.
Christian Schubert
Jena, Germany
schubert@pinet.uni-jena.de
From: Alex <alexc@well.com>
Subject: Please Tape the Sno-Core tour
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:55:46 -0800
You know, the one with Everclear and Soul Coughing.
However, I need a decent tape of the openers DJ Spooky and Redman.
I rolled from the front row balcony of Memorial Auditorium at Sac
tonight and its boomy as hell so I went to the floor for the headliners
where I should have been all along and low and behold, perfection!
If any of you Schoeps stealthers out there can catch a show when they
come to town, hell I'd buy your ticket....
-alex
From: Will Foy <willfoy@pobox.com>
Subject: re: AKG 460's v. AKG 480's
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:54:48 -0500
=====BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE=====
Hash: SHA1
simple distinction: AKG 460 series has been discontinued. the 480 line is
an enhancement, and has taken over the slot in AKG's lineup.
acc. to marc nutter at sonic sense when i got my 480's, it has lower
self-noise, so, for some of the existing caps for the 460's, like the
hypercardioid, it sounds a ton better. and as noted, the 480's use [except
for the shotguns i understand, correct me if i'm wrong??? ] the same
capsules as the 460's.
as for mine, i'm really happy with them. you can still find some 460's in
some shops, or also on the used market occasionally. i find that people
aren't letting go of them easily tho.
namaste, will
"Now I know the difference between gold and brass" - Ben Harper
Will Foy - willfoy@pobox.com Davidson '96 - Phi Gamma Delta __
will.home -> http://www.pobox.com/~willfoy GoHeels GoWildcats GoBraves / \
GibbDrollVerticalHorizonEverythingSealAgentsOfGoodRootsEdwinMcCainBand |e:|
TimReynoldsGratefulDeadDaveMatthewsTrainThanksToGravityBluesTravelerRush\__/
SamplesPatMcGeeBandGusterJumpLittleChildrenUnderfootTR3NilLaraAngieAparo
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From: Andrew Haley <aph@pasanda.cygnus.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Cable question
Date: 10 Feb 1999 10:17:04 -0000
> >From aph Wed Feb 10 09:45:34 1999
> Cc: dat-heads@fednet.near.net
> From: Aaron Westendorf <westea@rpi.edu>
> Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 23:19:54 -0500
>
> This isn't entirely related to DAT, but I started thinking about this
> because of some new cabling I'm planning on buying/making for my DAT and
> stereo setup. For a digital cable, I know I can use 75 ohm coax with
> rca connectors. Looking at some pre made cables, I can see that the
> outer part of the plug is connected to the shielding of the cable. Now
> what I want to know is, can I use shielded coax for a long audio cable
> run?
How long? For a few tens of feet you might be OK, but no more than that.
> If so, do I still need to connect the shielding to the outer
> connector of the rca plug?
Yes, of course.
> If I can't do this, then will the shielding still do it's job since
> it's not grounded to anything? I have a long analog run that I'm
> trying to stamp noise out of, and am trying to determine how to make
> up a well shielded cable on my own.
Why bother? Run the coax into a balun and then use twisted pair.
Have another balun at the receieving end or feed into a balanced
input.
Andrew.
From: THB <tbugsett@online.no>
Subject: Neil Young March 1999 tour
Reply-To: tbugsett@online.no
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:24:14 +0100
Anyone taping any of the following shows? I'm looking for sweet tapes
(Schoeps, Neumanns etc). Lots of Neil for trade: Every show in
circulation. All shows from 1995 to present on DAT direct from DAT
masters + lots of older shows on DAT from masters as well.
03/02/99 Vancouver BC Queen Elizabeth Theatre
03/03/99 Vancouver BC Queen Elizabeth Theatre
03/05/99 Seattle WA Paramount Theatre
03/06/99 Seattle WA Paramount Theatre
03/08/99 Portland OR Arlene Schnitzer Hall
03/09/99 Portland OR Arlene Schnitzer Hall
03/11/99 Spokane WA Spokane Opera House
03/17/99 Sacramento CA Memorial Auditorium
03/19/99 Berkeley CA Berkeley Comm. Theatre
03/20/99 Berkeley CA Berkeley Comm. Theatre
03/22/99 Los Angeles CA Pantages Theatre
03/23/99 Los Angeles CA Pantages Theatre
03/25/99 Las Vegas NV Hard Rock Hotel - The Joint
03/26/99 Las Vegas NV Hard Rock Hotel - The Joint
--
- Thor
From: Gianni Pavan <gpavan@telnetwork.it>
Subject: news from Opcode
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:10:32 +0100
Dear friends,
now I would buy the new OPCODE OpticalPort+Analog (see the news page
on the Opcode web site!) and I need to find a store in the US where to buy
it by email.
Could you suggest a good dealer on the internet ??
Gianni
==============================================================
Centro Interdisciplinare di Bioacustica e Ricerche Ambientali
Universita' degli Studi di Pavia
Email gpavan@telnetwork.it
Web http://www.unipv.it/webcib/welcome.html
==============================================================
From: Bill Pannifer <billpannifer@easynet.co.uk>
Subject: iso: Patti Smith Bowery Ballroom 30/31.12.98
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 06:04:17 -0500 (EST)
Just another plea for dats of either of these shows, especially the 30th
which I attended.
The Verlaine/Jimmy Ripp opening set would be nice too.
Lots of Patti + other stuff to trade.
thanks
Bill
From: Robbie Dunn <goheels@mindspring.com>
Subject: BOOTLEGGER Warning
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 07:22:46 -0800
Hey Dan,
Can you post the name/url of this bootlegger? I think everyone here needs
to make sure we're not providing any music to him.
Robbie
>From: dan clark <clarkda@one.net>
>Subject: BOOTLEGGER warning...
>Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:01:33 -0500 (EST)
>
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Oooo. Robbie Dunn
(UNC) E-Mail: goheels@mindspring.com
) / For my DAT & CD-R lists, plus some cool stickers...
(_/ Go to: http://www.mindspring.com/~goheels
"If you get confused, listen to the music play"
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
From: Nick Ryan <ryan@easynet.co.uk>
Subject: Teac DA-P20 44.1 or 48 kHz?????
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:52:16 +0100
Does the Teac DA-P20 record only at 48 kHz or can it be switched to 44.1kHz???
Answers to :
ryan@easynet.co.uk
Many thanks
Ryan Jaques
From: Mark McHarg <MGM@symbionics.co.uk>
Subject: RE: computer cd burner setup
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:03:51 -0000
"Lutch, James JJ" <Lutch.James.JJ@bhp.com.au> asks about CDR
> Is the SCSI advantage mainly in the burner or in the
> hard drive? In other words, could I run a pair of ultra dma
> IDE hard drives, and get a scsi card (adaptec, ~$50-100)
> just for the burner.
Many people (including me) run fine with IDE hard drives and SCSI CDR.
> I see many people (including Jesse's page at www.celestialaudio.com)
> recommend having a dedicated HD for audio.
Definitely. Or at least a dedicated partition. Or several.
> Would it be preferable to get two 6.4 GB ultra-dma IDE drives,
> or to get one ~6.4 GB SCSI drive for about the same price.
More is better. Lots more is lots better. I can barely make do with
6.4 GB and intend to buy another drive soon.
> What is the consequence of non-perfect DAE
The main thing will be sector jitter. Imagine the music sliced up
into chunks (sectors) of 1/75 second. When these are placed exactly
end-to-end it looks just like the original. Sector jitter causes a
few inserted or deleted samples at the sector edges. Do it once and
no one will notice. But make copies-of-copies, each generation
introducing little discontinuities and it can't be good.
The whole point of digital cloning is to get the same exact sequence
of bits time after time, which is all too easy to cock up with CDR.
It is reported that plextor + jitter correction is usually accurate.
Otherwise get Exact Audio Copy (EAC) which reads multiple times to
be sure everything is just right.
http://studserver.uni-dortmund.de/~su0165/eac.html
> Is speed a factor? 40x is not that much greater than 12x if you're
> going to read once and write a couple.
With EAC it means reading a full CD in 12 minutes vs 40.
My 12x reader only does about 1.5x when I use EAC.
> 4.What is 'disk at once' I keep seeing.
Track-at-once records each track as a separate session, complete with
lead-in and lead-out. These show up as the infamous 2-second gaps.
Disk-at-once writes the whole CD in one burn, allowing you to run
tracks together seamlessly. This is a must for live recordings.
> Does this refer to the schwag adaptec software?
EZDC has a DAO check-box on the "general" page, as does most CDR s/w.
I think all modern burners support DAO, but it's worth checking.
> 5. What is the difference between 'SCSI', 'SCSI2', 'SCSI3',
> and 'Ultra'.
Speed and bus width. Just make sure the SCSI card matches the drive.
Most people buy them bundled together so you know they'll work.
Good luck,
Mark
From: "Evan Lauber" <evn@mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: DAT-Heads Digest #763
Reply-To: <evn@iname.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:35:09 -0500
From: "Lutch, James JJ" <Lutch.James.JJ@bhp.com.au>
Subject: computer cd burner setup
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 03:30:00 +1100
Hi folks,
I've been doing my homework on this, but unfortunately, I keep coming up
with more questions!!! Here goes:
first off, my setup will be AMD K6 2 333 w/ 64 MB, zefiro za2 and goldenhawk
1. Obviously SCSI is the way to go, but I see lots of people burning 95-97%
of their discs successfully with IDE equip (esp. now that the faster
ultra-dma's are out). Is the SCSI advantage mainly in the burner or in the
hard drive? In other words, could I run a pair of ultra dma IDE hard drives,
and get a scsi card (adaptec, ~$50-100) just for the burner. This seems like
it would save a lot of cash. Then I could use the plextor 412, which has
good DAE
The advantage is in the burner, get a scsi burner it works better!
2. With reference to the question above, I see many people (including
Jesse's page at www.celestialaudio.com) recommend having a dedicated HD for
audio. Would it be preferable to get two 6.4 GB ultra-dma IDE drives, or to
get one ~6.4 GB SCSI drive for about the same price.
Go for two ultra dma ide hard drives, IBM's are the most reliable, then come
fujitsu's. I use fujitsu's as they are less expensive. You may want to get
an 8 or ten gig model for around $200. DOn't buy western digital they have
been having problems recently!
3. I've heard of people using regular CD-roms for DAE (digital audio
extraction) in order to save their burner's laser, but it seems the plextors
are optimized for this (unfortunately, plextor only comes in scsi as far as
I know, which limits my options). What is the consequence of non-perfect DAE
(in terms of mudding up the sound, dropouts, or is it more like a bad D>A in
sound?). Is speed a factor? I see that goldenhawk will soon be supporting
plextor's 40-plex CD ROM (reader). That would be nice. But realistically,
40x is not that much greater than 12x if you're going to read once and write
a couple.
I wouldn't worry about saving your burners laser. my panasonic scsi 7502 cd
burner does DAE at 8x reliably. for best results you burn to your hard
drive anyhow, so one cd rom is fine, if you want to save money.
4.What is 'disk at once' I keep seeing. Does this refer to the schwag
adaptec software?
DAO lets you use a cue list with cd-r win software from golden hawk, The
most common feature is it lets you adjust the 2 sec gaps between tracks to
zero seconds which is great for live concerts!
5. What is the difference between 'SCSI', 'SCSI2', 'SCSI3', and 'Ultra'. I
imagine I'd need separate controllers for each, so it would be wise to keep
it on the same platform.
Not sure about ultra, but the scsi 3 is faster than scsi 2 which is faster
than scsi 1
6. Does anyone have any experience or info on the quality and max speed of
DAE for the following:
Sony CRX100E
Mitsumi 4801
Sony CDU948S
Yamaha CDR400AT.
www.mo3.com has a list of all cd players and their DAE speed, stick with a
plextor or use your scsi burner for best results. Mitsumi's usually don't
have dae
Hope this helps,
Evan
Thanks, and please dont email me asking to pass along info, I will post the
results to the list....
Thanks,
jamie
From: James Treworgy <jamie@treworgy.com>
Subject: Re: DAT-Heads Digest #763
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 08:47:35 -0800
>1. Obviously SCSI is the way to go, but I see lots of people burning 95-97%
>of their discs successfully with IDE equip (esp. now that the faster
>ultra-dma's are out). Is the SCSI advantage mainly in the burner or in the
>hard drive? In other words, could I run a pair of ultra dma IDE hard drives,
>and get a scsi card (adaptec, ~$50-100) just for the burner. This seems like
>it would save a lot of cash. Then I could use the plextor 412, which has
>good DAE
The main advantage is that it lowers your CPU overhead. There is no reason
why you should experience any higher failure rate with an IDE CD burner
unless you tend to do a lot of multitasking or otherwise place demands on
your PC while burning CDs. But if you don't go SCSI for your CD-ROM you
can't get a plextor :-)
IDE hard disks, on the other hand, have relatively low overhead
requirements and nowadays do not perform significantly differently than a
SCSI drive. Many people have SCSI CD-ROMs and IDE hard disks; I've always
operated this way and it performs very well and is very cost effective.
IMHO it is pretty hard to justify the cost of SCSI hard disks with IDE
disks performing 90-95% as well for a fraction of the cost.
>2. With reference to the question above, I see many people (including
>Jesse's page at www.celestialaudio.com) recommend having a dedicated HD for
>audio. Would it be preferable to get two 6.4 GB ultra-dma IDE drives, or to
>get one ~6.4 GB SCSI drive for about the same price.
You will be *way* better off with two IDE disks. When editing digital
audio, you work with gigabyte-sized files. Audio editing programs use a
temporary file and then save to a separate file. What this means is if you
have a single hard disk you will be spending a lot of time waiting for your
hard disk to seek back and forth between two files. You'll cut down the
time spent saving and processing tremendously by working across two hard
disks, as well as save wear and tear on your HDs.
>3. I've heard of people using regular CD-roms for DAE (digital audio
>extraction) in order to save their burner's laser, but it seems the plextors
>are optimized for this (unfortunately, plextor only comes in scsi as far as
>I know, which limits my options). What is the consequence of non-perfect DAE
>(in terms of mudding up the sound, dropouts, or is it more like a bad D>A in
>sound?). Is speed a factor? I see that goldenhawk will soon be supporting
>plextor's 40-plex CD ROM (reader). That would be nice. But realistically,
>40x is not that much greater than 12x if you're going to read once and write
>a couple.
Get a CD-ROM in addition to your burner. It's less an issue of saving the
laser as it is convenience and speed. An Ultraplex is just over a hundred
bucks. When copying CDs with only your burner, you'll need to swap the CD
after the read. It will double the amount of human intervention required
when copying a bunch of CDs. Also, most CD writers don't excel at DAE -
the plextor perhaps being an exception, but it is a lot slower then a $100
Ultraplex.
>4.What is 'disk at once' I keep seeing. Does this refer to the schwag
>adaptec software?
It refers to as opposed to "Track at once" which means the laser is turned
off and on between each track, leaving a perceptible gap. Most CD
recorders can record in either mode, and DAO (disk at once) is required for
perfectly duplicating audio CDs.
>5. What is the difference between 'SCSI', 'SCSI2', 'SCSI3', and 'Ultra'. I
>imagine I'd need separate controllers for each, so it would be wise to keep
>it on the same platform.
SCSI-II is the standard. It refers to the bus speed. I (no longer used)
is 5 meg/sec. II is 10/sec. III is probably the same as wide, which
doubles the bandwith to 20 meg per sec - but uses a different bus. Ultra
doubles the speed on a narrow bus. So you can have Ultra Scsi at 20
meg/sec on the standard bus. Or Ultra Wide SCSI at 40 meg/sec.
Bottm line is even plain old SCSI II is more than adequeate for running a
CD-ROM and burner. I've got an Adaptec 2940 (3 years old, SCSI II) card
running my PC and it never maxes out. It's not possible. A 4x burner and a
32x drive = max of approx. 7 meg/sec and you'll never, ever be running both
at full bore. You'd only need more than 10 meg/sec if you have a couple
hard drives in there as well or a lot of other peripherals on a server that
were constantly in use.
>6. Does anyone have any experience or info on the quality and max speed of
>DAE for the following:
>Sony CRX100E
>Mitsumi 4801
>Sony CDU948S
>Yamaha CDR400AT.
Do yourself a favor and get a CD-ROM (Plex) as a reader, whatever you do
for a writer. Anyway, the Mitsumi can't write disc-at-once, so avoid it.
Check the specs on the Sonys very carefully as well- some can only write
track-at-once. I had a Yamaha CRW4260 (their re-writer) and found the
quality to be mediocre. It didn't do very good DAE except when using Exact
Audio Copy.
From: "Segal, Dan S159" <Dan.Segal@CIGNA.COM>
Subject: Mixers
Reply-To: dansegal@pcnet.com
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:07:00 -0500
I just bought the Mackie 1202 mixer on a whim. I was wondering if anyone
out there has one, or has some experience using one of these. I plan on
using it next week and I obviously won't have much experience at that point.
Could someone please shed a little light on this for me? Basically,
ANYTHING you could tell me would be helpful. Thanks.
Dan
From: "Andi Cowell" <andi.cowell@acm.org>
Subject: Misc Replies
Reply-To: <andi.cowell@acm.org>
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 09:05:34 -0500
> From: "<gboss>" <gboss@voicenet.com>
> Subject: New cdrs?
> Reply-To: gboss@voicenet.com
> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 21:42:50 -0500
>
> I was ordering some blanks today and they (ccss inc.) told me that they
> had brand new blanks in today which were silver/gold. I thought this was
> a cool idea so i decided to give them a try. Has anyone ever used them
> before? I'm hoping that they have the reflectivity of silver/blues and
> the durability/stability of gold/gold discs. I'll let everyone know.
How much did they cost? I normally wait for the rebate offers and get them
around $0.50 each. How much are CD-R's (golds) generally nowadays?
> From: jpjpco <jpjpco@megsinet.net>
> Subject: Digital Sound Cards, Which one?..UGHHH!!!
> Reply-to: jpjpco@megsinet.net
> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 21:48:14 -0600
>
> What are the 'top of the line' or industry standard digital sound cards
> with digital and analog 'in and outputs' for Windows 95? Also are
> there certain cards that are better at converting from 48 to 44.1?
> Friends of mine are telling me that not only do you need a good SCSI
> drive but also an external hard drive to make the system run smoother.
> Is the extra external hard drive necessary? Thanks for your help
The external drive is not 'necessary'. In fact it doesn't really 'need' to
be SCSI in my experience. I dump to an IDE drive (Ultra ATA, 5400 rpm, 9ms)
and then cut to a SCSI CDR. I use a TB Fuji which isn't of the 'top of the
line' class, you'll probably want to look at the Event Gina, Terratec
EWS64XL, Zerofire ZA1 (is that the right name?), etc. Many others on the
list will be able to help you with that.
> From: Jeff Swick <swick@the.link.ca>
> Subject: nature recordings
> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 22:14:25 -0700
>
> The 999 being a stereo mic made for some intresting headphone listening
> of bees;enought to make a person squirm.As well the 999 has terrific
> bass response and made the bees sound very large indeed on my psb
> stratus golds.
Would love to hear some of these recordings. I recorded a rather scary
thunderstorm here in Rochester before Christmas and it is the best way to
cure insomnia!
> From: Seth Breidbart <sethb@panix.com>
> Subject: Re: Digital Sound Cards, Which one?..UGHHH!!!
> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 23:32:04 -0500 (EST)
>
> > Friends of mine are telling me that not only do you need a good SCSI
> > drive but also an external hard drive to make the system run smoother.
> > Is the extra external hard drive necessary?
>
> You certainly don't need an _external_ hard drive. A _second_ hard
> drive, used only for audio, makes life easier (it's easy to keep it
> defragged, for one thing).
I have a 800mb partition on mine purely for dumping audio to, and then
cutting from. As Seth mentions, no problem with defragging as you keep it
nice and clear all the time.
> From: "Jackson Gibbs" <jackson@hosemart.com>
> Subject: Down Sides of PCM-M1?
> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:47:05 -0800
>
> Hey all... I'm on the verge of getting back into DAT and want one of my
> decks to be a portable. I'm currently looking to the PCM-M1 from Sony.
>
> I formerly owned a D8 which I didn't have much trouble with.
> I've read all
> the info on the spec sheets and whatnot...
>
> What I'm wondering now is, for those who own or have owned the
> PCM-M1, what
> are your great likes or dislikes of the deck, if any, and if you've owned
> other models how do you think it compares?
The M1 has been my only deck (well, I've used the D-100 before although they
are so alike it really makes no difference). I love it. Apart from battery
life, I've nothing bad to say about it. I think a lot of it depends on what
you are going to use it for - I just use it as a means of transferring DATs
sent to me from friends in the UK to CDR. I also use it to record nature
sounds and for getting samples. The M1 works for me for all those.
Andi.
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