DAT-Heads Digest #769
Contents:
Looking for tapers for these shows (boa)
HHb CDR's and Speeeeeeed ("Klay Anderson")
Re:moe. problems...need an answer... (pkmin@rsc.rockwell.com)
moe. problems...need an answer... (pkmin@rsc.rockwell.com)
cleaning deck (exterior) (Eric Reichenbach)
Re: DAT-Heads Digest #768 (Mark Dulcey)
Responses to request on tunage in SF area (William Perry)
Re: 24/96 ("David D. Rogers")
Re: Matrix capabilities of the DAP-1? (Scott Mogol)
subscribe (Artie)
Cables, Confusion ("Klay Anderson")
DDS or Audio Grade DAT (FatLionel@aol.com)
From: boa <phunk@boa.com>
Subject: Looking for tapers for these shows
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:20:51 -0600
Hello All!
Im trying to find tapers for these dates for the upcoming Black Crowes tour:
02/12/99 Minneapolis, MN State Theatre
02/17/99 Akron, Oh E.J. Thomas Theatre
02/19/99 Detroit, MI Detroit State Theatre
03/01/99 Toronto The Warehouse
03/02/99 Pittsburgh, Pa The Crane Building
03/04/99 Lexington, VA Washington And Lee University
03/07/99 Carlisle, Pa Schlecter Auditorium @ Dickinson College
03/14/99 New Brunswick, NJ State Theater
03/16/99 Greenville, SC McAlister Auditorium
03/17/99 Greensboro, NC Greensboro Coliseum Complex, Coliseum
03/20/99 Norfolk, VA The Boathouse
03/21/99 Charlotte, NC Ovens Auditorium
03/23/99 Augusta, GA Bell Auditorium Civic Center
03/24/99 Lake Buena Vista, FL House Of Blues
03/26/99 Sunrise, FL Sunrise Musical Theater
03/27/99 Tampa, FL Tampa Bay P.A.C.
04/04/99 Atlanta, GA Fox Theater
04/06/99 New Orleans, LA Saenger Theater
04/08/99 Austin, TX Austin Music Hall
04/09/99 San Antonio, TX Sunken Garden Amphitheater
04/10/99 Dallas, TX Bronco Bowl
04/11/99 Houston, TX Bayou Palace Theater
If you or anyone you know is going to be taping these shows, please email
me at: boa@boa.com. I have many shows from various artists to offer and
would appreciate it greatly! Thanks!
http://www.boa.com
From: "Klay Anderson" <klay@klay.com>
Subject: HHb CDR's and Speeeeeeed
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:02:08 -0700
David Rodgers brought up a good point regarding the HHb blanks I have on
sale:
<<Do you know if these are still good for 2X or 4X
burning--have your or any of your customers (or anyone else for that matter
who might be reading this) used them for that speed? Does HHb have anything
to say on the matter?>>
I replied to him personally:
These are perfectly fine for 2x or 4x writers. I know of customers that use
them at 6x. I think it is HHb "marketing" that proclaims the 1x optimizing
feature.
Thanks!
Regards,
Klay Anderson
klay@klay.com
http://www.klay.com
1.800.FOR.KLAY
From: pkmin@rsc.rockwell.com
Subject: Re:moe. problems...need an answer...
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:34:29 -0800
"I am the proud new owner of Sennheiser ME 64 cardiods. I taped Bela at the
HOB at myrtle beach friday night (first night running a rig...and damn was it
fun) my tapes came out o.k. i guess...but i have a few problems i would like
to get worked out before i tape moe. in Charelston Friday night. I ran the
Sennheisers straight into my D-100 and my peaks were around -4db. My tapes
came out kind of tinny on the high end with touches of distortion sounding
noise. The bass was perfect, tight and you could feel it in your chest. I
didn't run the bass roll off on the mic caps. and I went mic in with the 20
db pad on the d-100. So my quandry is....what do i need to do to get my tapes
"right"?"
The ME64's have an output sensitivity of 31 mV/Pa (a typical condensor mic that
dat-heads use typically range from about 7mV/Pa (the B&K 4021)to about
15mV/Pa(the Neumann KM184/140). Ouput sensitivity is just how much voltage
output the mic gives out for a "unit of sound loudness" or Pa. FWIW a lot of
measurement microphones are in the 50mV/Pa range. With that high sensitivity
(31mV/Pa)you should be able to go line in basically always at concerts (even at
a quieter show such as Dave and Tim).
"I was thinking maybe i should go line in to avoid the distortion on
the high end?"
Absolutely. The high end is where you hear the brickwalling first.
"or were my levels too high?"
No your levels weren't too high. Even peaking at 0dB you should not hear
distortion (unless the SPLs at the show exceded the capability of the
microphone). Even occasionally going over, one doesn't generally hear
distortion(at least I haven't).
" I never came close to 0db...but
the decks that patched out of me were all around 12db or slightly higher. so
my levels were higher than theirs...but no where near topping out. Was this
"brickwalling?"
Evidence leads me to say yes. I'm guessing you had your record level knob set
to about 3.5 or something low like that. When going mic in if your record level
knob is set to about 4.2 or less you can get brickwalling with the sony
portables. With your mics just always go line in and you'll be fine bc their
higher output sensitivity is high enough to go line in and get good levels..
"or was it just the crappy pre-amp on my D-100 and I would
benefit by cutting it out by going line in?"
Yes go line in.
"Another option i thought of was
the mics possibly running hot straight from the Sennheisers....a guy there
told me to send them back and get them turned down....but he didn't have to do
that for sometime when he got his....it eventually became a problem....so any
suggestions?"
Don't worry about the above. Just go line in, you'll be fine. I don't know his
situation so I can't comment further on why he had to do that. You shouldn't
though.
"Please tell me I am doing something wrong, and they aren't my
mics...'cause I am not happy with the tapes I made."
Hey Kevin, you're doing something wrong. It's not your mics.
" I was about 25 feet from
the stage, dead center on the floor. "
Go line in. You'll be fine in basically every concert situation I can imagine.
This is bc of the high output sensitivity of your mics.
"Also, i have some weird noises on the tapes when people would bump my stand
(The HOB oversells that place everytime by about 400 people) how much do
shock mounts cut that out?"
Pretty well but a big bump will probably be noticable still.
"It seems like they would help, but do they totally
take that out?"
It really depends. They're not gonna do it perfectly in all situations.
"or is it mostly from vibrations from the music?"
No.
"How much can
i expect to pay for shockmounts for my Sennheisers?"
About $100-120 for a pair of Audio Technicas. I've got the "Tic tac toe" model
8415? I think with "rubber bands". They're not as fancy/low profile as some of
the more expensive models (Schoeps, etc) but they get the job done. There is
also the 8410A I believe for about the same price.
"If you could respond to me that would be great...i want to get some feed back
before i tape moe. i would love to come away from that show with nice
tapes...."
Go line in and you should come away with nice tapes.
Pete
From: pkmin@rsc.rockwell.com
Subject: moe. problems...need an answer...
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:44:10 -0800
"or is it mostly from vibrations from the music?"
"No."
If your stand doesn't have rubber bumpers on its legs then music vibrations may
be causing the floor to vibrate (nearby dancers much more so) and those
vibrations can be transmitted through your stand to you mics. Rubber bottomed
legs will cut back on this(whether or not these smaller vibrations are audible
is another story but rubber bottom bumpers can't hurt). Thanks for reminding me
I need to do the same.....Pete
From: Halfstep-2@webtv.net (Eric Reichenbach)
Subject: cleaning deck (exterior)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:52:52 -0500 (EST)
Just wondering what type of detergents people use to do such a cleaning.
Can one use household detergents, or is there is specal "audio
component" detergent available?
Thank you........
From: Mark Dulcey <mark@buttery.org>
Subject: Re: DAT-Heads Digest #768
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:08:55 -0500 (EST)
On Thu, 11 Feb 1999, Digestifier wrote:
> From: James Treworgy <jamie@treworgy.com>
>
> An IDE interface requires CPU cycles to control it. A SCSI interface does
> not. The result is that IDE hard drives drain system resources.
Not necessarily true. Modern systems have bus-mastering IDE controllers
built into the motherboard. The catch is that many of them are shipped
without the software drivers needed to activate bus-mastering. The
original release of Windows 95 didn't come with them, so you have to
download the appropriate drivers from your motherboard manufacturer.
Windows 98 and later OEM releases of Windows 95 come with the drivers in
the box.
> The primary advantage of a SCSI drive comes in multiuser environments
> because the interface is designed to process requests in such a way as to
> minimize head seek time. But in a single user environment, particularly
> audio editing where you'll simply be copying big files around, this offers
> little benefit for the large price premium. That is, there's not enough
> complexity in the type of hard disk activity to benefit from this. You
> won't be actually accessing more than a couple files at once. Far better
> to get two IDE hard disks - so your large file transfers occur between two
> disks, eliminating head seek time altogether.
Another benefit of SCSI is that you have have operations proceeding on
more than one device at the same time. IDE won't let you do that on two
devices on the same IDE interface (i.e., connected to the same cable). If
you're going to get two IDE drives, you'll get better performance if you
put them on different IDE interfaces. Most motherboards have dual-channel
IDE interfaces, so this can be done without extra hardware. But it means
your CD-ROM drive will have to be on the same interface as one of your
drives - don't make it the drive that receives data from digital audio
extraction.
So, you might set things up like this:
First IDE interface: system software drive (with Windows and so forth),
CD-ROM drive
Second IDE interface: second hard drive (for digital audio), some other
IDE device (tape backup, Zip, etc.).
If your other device is an IDE CD burner, you're a bit stuck. Probably the
best thing is to put it where I indicated the CD-ROM drive above, and have
the CD-ROM on the channel with the second drive. That might make audio
extraction less reliable, though. You definitely want the CD-ROM and the
CD-R on separate channels, for reliability in disk to disk copying.
If you want more stuff in your computer than that, it's time to think
SCSI. Or perhaps you can put some stuff on that USB bus that's probably
sitting idle.
======
Mark J. Dulcey mark@buttery.org
Visit my home page (now with pics!): http://www.buttery.org/mark/
Visit my house's page: http://www.buttery.org/
From: rperry@netscape.com (William Perry)
Subject: Responses to request on tunage in SF area
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:18:36 -0500
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Quick thanks to all who responded to my request web sites listing
Bay-area concerts! The www.sfbayconcerts.com site is particularly
convenient!
Next question:
Anyone planning on attending the KVHW show @ the Fillmore on 2/26? I'll
be out there during that show too, and I was thinking of delaying my
return flight so I can see these guys in person. I'd like to be able to
drag a deck along or arrange for someone to spin me a copy before I go,
so I don't have to bug folks there. (I am going out for business, so I
can't really justify dragging all my taping crap out for one show!)
Thanks again,
-Russ
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From: "David D. Rogers" <drogers@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: 24/96
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:23:24 -0800
>From: "Daniel Kantor" <dkantor@umich.edu>
>Subject: 24/96
>Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 04:38:07 -0500
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Please turn off the HTML on your mail program.
>Are CD burners that are out now capable of burning a CD at 24bit 96khz? =
>I am under the impression that it is the software that tells the CDR =
>what to write. Is this true? My idea was to write a CD at 24/96 and =
>when the SACD players come out, they would read at this.
Yes (sorta), no, and no. :) CD burners can write any data file, including a
96/24 audio file. You also won't get much 96/24 audio on a 650 MB CD-R.
SACD (Super Audio CD) won't use any PCM-type digital audio in the first
place (which is what 96/24 is, and is what everyone's been using up 'til
now), but instead will use a more exotic Direct Stream Digital (DSD)
system, along with another "red book" layer so the discs can be played on
regular CD players. 96/24 will be the format for DVD Audio. (Will anyone
_really_ be able to hear the difference? Probably very few people, if
anyone. I think they used such an obscenely high sample and bit rate so
they woldn't have to bring out a new format for at least 15 years, just
like CD. :) Plus, even if CD-R was a practical format for 96/24 audio, it
would need to be written in a format that the player understands. Raw PC
(or Mac) file formats won't do.
Let me take a moment here to praise DSD. Even if it doesn't become a
consumer standard (which it probably won't--it has a very high hill to
climb, and 96/24 is so good that it's unlikely anyone will really be able
to hear a difference), it has a lot of potential in the studio. This is
because DSD can be resampled to _any_ PCM sampling rate and bit depth (up
to at least 24 bits), without the quality loss associated with PCM
resampling. DSD is, as the name implies, a direct stream of digital; with
PCM, this direct stream is chopped into smaller samples. (However, with 96
kHz, those samples are so small that (again) it probably makes not a bit of
audible difference. FWIW, I have next-to-no experience comparing DSD with
96/24, and I've relied heavily on those who have--so take this for what
it's worth.) This direct stream is normally used to create the samples;
with DSD, this stream is saved so it can be used more efficiently to create
PCM audio. Hopefully we'll see some kind of portable DSD recorder in the
sub-$1500 range, and some way to convert it (either on the machine or with
a computer?) to 96/24 or even 44.1/16.
IMO, the only way that DSD will become a mainstream consumer format is if
the DVD Audio Committee or the labels decide not to use a standard "red
book" CD audio layer so that the DVD Audio discs aren't
backwards-compatable with regular CD players. If DVD Audio's main
proponents make this simple mistake (especially if the committee somehow
makes it impossible to do so), then Super Audio CD probably deserves to
win. <G> Also, let me point out that the main advantage for these formats
for Joe Sixpack is the fact that they can play back 5.1 channels, not that
they sound better when playing back two.
Peace,
<> David
From: Scott Mogol <smogol@intr.net>
Subject: Re: Matrix capabilities of the DAP-1?
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:26:08
>> The da-p1 from tascam will take 4 imputs at once. you can use the 2 xl
>> inputs for mics and the rca inputs for a sdb feed. the da-p1 is supposed to
>> do the matrix mix for you.
>>
>> Wouldn't time delay be a factor in this?
Seth B. wrote:
>Both time delay (if the mics are far from the stage) and the lack of
>level-setting ability would be problems.
>
But, it will work. I tried this as an experiment a couple of years ago,
taping a Lake Trout at the 8x10 in Baltimore. The 8x10 is a small club,
basiclly two city rowhouses next door to each other (hense 8 and 10) gutted
and fitted with a modest PA system and stage. I had my mics (Neumann
KM184's) on the balcony, about 15' from the Bose mid/high cabinets. The
mics were run into my DA-P1 via XLR's. Knowing that I generally ran the
Neumann's into the DA-P1 at about 4.5 on the input pot, I set them and was
off to score the board patch. The 8x10 uses a Mackie 24/4 for moniters, and
it sits next to the Peavey FOH board. Having worked as house tech in the
8x10 a few times, I knew that only aux 1-4 on the moniter board were used
for moniters, and that aux 5 and 6 sat vacant. After discussing it with the
bands engineer, it was agreed that I could use the extra auxes to set up a
stereo mix for my tape feed. I came out of aux 5 and 6 outputs (1/4") and
converted down to RCA to go into the DA-P1. I left my input pot on the
DA-P1 alone (at 4.5), and slowly brought up the output of the Mackie until
it matched the mics. Time delay was not a factor since I was less that 15'
(or apx. 15mS) from the sound source. Anyway, to make a long story short,
the tape turned out great, and I wouldn't hesitate to try it again.
From: Artie <artie_t@swbell.net>
Subject: subscribe
Reply-To: artie_t@swbell.net
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:27:20 -0600
subscribe
From: "Klay Anderson" <klay@klay.com>
Subject: Cables, Confusion
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:45:24 -0700
Robert Bertrando <rbbert@pyramid.net>
Subject: long cable runs
Stated:
<<nothing beats a 110 ohm balanced cable for long cable runs, and they're
relatively cheap (Bayview sells an Apogee 5m for $48). That said, there is
very little difference (if any) between a premium 75 ohm video cable and a
"digital" cable.>>
I beg to differ; there is a lot of difference, physically and electrically,
between balanced AES/EBU cable parameters and that of the unbalanced IEC
(SPDIF) cables. One may interchange occasionally with some sort of kludgey
adapters, but it is always best to use the right tool for the job.
Regarding long runs, I have run IEC for hundreds of feet, but I use Canare
video cable and their proprietary 75-ohm connectors. I have seen AES/EBU
runs in excess of thousands of feet, but once again, through the proper
cable, in this case Apogee Wyde-Eye and gold Neutrik connectors.
My price to make either of the above is only $19+$1.00 per foot.
Please don't cheap out on your interconnects, we are dealing with video
frequencies here.
Regards,
Klay Anderson
klay@klay.com
http://www.klay.com
1.800.FOR.KLAY
From: FatLionel@aol.com
Subject: DDS or Audio Grade DAT
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 17:04:09 EST
I'm just getting into DAT, and was wondering, is it better to go with DDS
computer grade or DAT audio tape for concert recording. I don't have a deck
yet, so if it is deck dependent, please explain. Any info regarding
differences in sound quality and reliability would also be appreciated.
thanks,
Matt Greenwood
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