DAT-Heads Digest #787
Contents:
Re: Volume amplification (Mark McHarg)
Re: Phantom Power (Nick Hickman)
Re: Sony DAT DTC-ZA5ES ("Norbert Hahn")
[no subject] (hambone@javanet.com)
Re: Stereo with different brand microphones (Seth Breidbart)
Re: HI-VAL blank CDs??? (Seth Breidbart)
Digital Audio Cards & DAT Downloads ("Desai, Timir")
Re:Metal Hydrides ("Neil Corkindale")
Iris Dement taping policy, B&P offer, F/S mics (Sam)
Remote Differences ("Klay Anderson")
XY Spacing ("Klay Anderson")
Trey at Higher Grounds (Davidlown@aol.com)
Re: Stereo with different brand microphones (Len Moskowitz)
Phanom of the Power ("Klay Anderson")
DVD Standards ("Klay Anderson")
David Grisman Taping policy?? (Ron Dalton)
DVD-RAM ("jesse volner")
XY (art)
Western Digital Drives (Gordon Gidluck)
Re: X/Y (swsmith@ix.netcom.com)
From: Mark McHarg <MGM@symbionics.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Volume amplification
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:49:44 -0000
Seth writes:
> If you're going to normalize a 48 kHz master, I think it
> makes sense to normalize before resampling
This is correct. Increase the volume before any other
processing (sample-rate conversion, EQ, NR, whatever).
Decrease the volume (if you must) after other processing.
From: nickh@wordcraft.co.uk (Nick Hickman)
Subject: Re: Phantom Power
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:14:45 +0000
Eric Angel wrote:
>... When the specs on mics(like AT853) say
>they need 9-52V of Phantom power, what is optimal? 9V, 52V, or somewhere
>inbetween?
Anywhere within the range specified will work. In some cases, a higher
voltage supply will give you higher maximum SPL before clipping. 48V
phantom is pretty standardised and almost everything will work optimally
with that. A few capacitor mics use the phantom power to polarise the
capsule directly and so absolutely need the full 48V. Others use a DC
to DC converter and so are happy with less. For electrets, the only issue
is running the audio circuitry. I believe most mics will handle rated SPL
with 24V.
>... If more power is better, has anyone personally built a power
>supply with 1 or 2 9V batteries and basic op-amps like the LM741(I think
>that's the #)?
Unless you want a DC to DC converter, your two 9V batteries will work
fine as a phantom supply for the majority of mics. Be sure to use current
limiting resistors (say 2k2 ohms) that are matched to within 0.5%. Unless
you know that the input can stand the voltage, you'll need blocking caps
too and, for good measure, a pair of bleeder resistors from the -ve sides
of the caps to ground.
Nick
From: "Norbert Hahn" <HAHN@HRZ3.HRZ.TU-Darmstadt.De>
Subject: Re: Sony DAT DTC-ZA5ES
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 13:50:27 +0100
On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 19:10:00 "David A. Wanamaker" <wanamaker@home.com> wrote...
> Subject: Sony DAT DTC-ZA5ES
>
> Anyone have any opinions on the subject item? I have chance to get a good
> bargain on it, but I haven't heard much about the unit. Is it a good DAT
> player for cloning from a D8/M1??
I bought mine about 1 year ago. It replaced my DTC 59 ES. I like its A/D
converter (that's the main reason why I bought it). The mechanics seem to
be better than that of the old decks. Thin tapes (90 meters = 180 minutes)
are recognized and handled properly.
About cloning:
* It obeys SCMS (like it nor not)
* ignores Skip-IDs
* cannot write END-IDs but honours them during playback
* displays SCMS ID
* displays error count
* automatic cleaning
* writes date and time of day during recording
* writes leadin marker on tapes which lack it.
>
> Thanks for your input,
> David
Hope this helps,
Norbert
From: hambone@javanet.com
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:32:21 -0500
not lookin to start trouble
and would sure hate to have everyone email me
but was wonder if it would be possible
to keep this a dat digest
lately most posts are computer and cd related
i see how the two inter connect but feel
with everyone doing cds
it gets away from one of the reasons we
started recording on dat in the first place...
the extended time format compared to the
74 min cd limit
granted cds are more user friendly
but it seems that over time more people will
start selling cds because they'll get into
more hands with better quality
rather than keeping it within taper circles
not lookin to start a riot but
feel many of these cd computer questions
have been answered time and time again
please send all posts regarding this to the digest
not me please...
thanks
~D2~
From: Seth Breidbart <sethb@panix.com>
Subject: Re: Stereo with different brand microphones
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:09:38 -0500 (EST)
> I was just wondering how much influence using two different brands of =
> microphones would have upon a stereo recording, especially if they were =
> of similar quality. Would AKGs mix with Neumanns or B&K. I know about =
> waveform matching, but I still wonder.
I wouldn't use one of each brand as a stereo pair, but for mixing
(e.g. ORTF + omnis or omnis + directional) it's OK to use one pair
each of different brands.
Seth
From: Seth Breidbart <sethb@panix.com>
Subject: Re: HI-VAL blank CDs???
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:10:02 -0500 (EST)
> Does anyone know if Hi VAL CDs are good CDs to use for audio?
They worked for me.
Seth
From: "Desai, Timir" <tdesai@imps0014.us.dg.com>
Subject: Digital Audio Cards & DAT Downloads
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:30:15 -0500
I'm new to DAT-Heads, so I apologize if my question has already been
answered in detail recently. I'm building an audio workstation from
scratch. One of the things I want to do with it is burn CDs from my DAT
tapes (mostly recorded with a 48 KHz sampling rate) and analog tapes. After
doing much research, I'm having trouble making a decision regarding digital
audio cards. The obvious choice because of its popularity is Zefiro's ZA-2.
But the Lynx1 from Lynx Studio and Digital Audio Lab's CardDeluxe offer more
up-to-date electronics, such as 24-bit/96 kHz digital I/O, as well as analog
inputs (the ZA-2 does not offer analog to digital conversion). My question
is whether having analog and digital inputs on a single card and having to
do resampling from 48 KHz down to 44.1 KHz in software is better compared to
the ZA-2 with its lack of analog inputs but with the ability to do
hardware-based resampling on the fly. Without an analog input, I would
probably dub the analog tapes to DAT using a 44.1 KHz sampling rate, and
then go from DAT to the computer. I was all set to purchase the ZA-2 until
I read a Grammaphone magazine article online
(http://www.gramophone.co.uk/sosaudio2.html) which stated that their
hardware resampling tests showed that the ZA-2 did not downsample without
errors. One other note, the sound cards mentioned above must be able to
cohabitate with a SoundBlaster Live! card, and the CPU is a 500 MHz Pentium
III (soon to be announced).
Has anyone else faced this decision? If so, what did you decide to do and
what were the key factors behind your decision?
Thanks for your help!
- Tim
From: "Neil Corkindale" <neilc@stratos.net>
Subject: Re:Metal Hydrides
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:52:28 +0000
I taped Natalie Marchant and Bob Dylan. unfortunately, my wife felt ill 25
minutes into Dylan's set, so we left early.
My question, though, is this.
I've got some Panasonic and Radio Shack Nical Hydride batteries, which I
charged up the day of the show. I used one set for NM and the other for BD.
After 25 minutes both sets of batteries showed they were half depleted on my
D100's battery meter. As it turned out, at the end of NM's 65 minute set,
the batteries still showed half depletion. As we left early, I couldn't
determine the batteries life for a full headlining act, e.g. 2 hours.
How long will Nical Hydride batteries last in a Sony D100, preferably Radio
Shack batteries?
Thanks
Neil
From: Sam <levinson@iastate.edu>
Subject: Iris Dement taping policy, B&P offer, F/S mics
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:05:23 -0600
Has anyone on the list had experience taping Iris D.? Just want to know
if she persecutes taper people when she finds them. The show is Friday night!
B&P: First come, Phish 10-29-98 on 90m + 11-2-98 on 2X60m. B&K source.
For Sale: DSM-6S Sonic Studios mics, purchased in Feb. 98, looking for 295
dollars or best offer. They are like new, used 10-12 times, with case,
documentation and all receipts. These are the pricier matched pair.
I'm upgrading my stealth setup, so I'm turning these over to someone who
will give them some real use. Please email priv. with questions.
Sam
From: "Klay Anderson" <klay@klay.com>
Subject: Remote Differences
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:56:46 -0700
"Barnes, Barry" <barry@horatio.sbe.nova.edu>
Subject: D-100 remote backlight?
asked:
<<Does the remote for the D-100 have a backlight that comes on in synch with
the backlight in the deck?>>
I made up a visual comparison about the remotes. See the Acrobat document
at
ftp://ftp.klay.com//pdf/Sony_DAT_Remote.pdf
Regards,
Klay Anderson
klay@klay.com
http://www.klay.com
1.800.FOR.KLAY
From: "Klay Anderson" <klay@klay.com>
Subject: XY Spacing
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:13:25 -0700
From: Dan Clark <clarkda@NKU.EDU>
Subject: X/Y question
asked:
<<When running X/Y, is there supposed to be a tiny gap or should one cap
actually "lay" on the other? I've heard that phase shift during X/Y occurs
where there is any distance but I've seen illustrations in books and
literature that looks as if there is a tiny distance (1/8"-1/16"). I've
done both and not been able tell a difference. Just curious as to the
technically correct answer>>
For the technically interested see an excellent paper at:
http://www.music.mcgill.ca/~martin/my_stuff/mic_pairs.html
Or I have the A27M Shure Manual in Acrobat format for your use at
ftp://ftp.klay.com.//pdf/Shure_A27M.pdf
Regards,
Klay Anderson
klay@klay.com
http://www.klay.com
1.800.FOR.KLAY
From: Davidlown@aol.com
Subject: Trey at Higher Grounds
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:19:00 EST
Hi,
Does anyone have the higher Grounds show with trey on DAT to trade. I have
over 500 hours of
Dylan
GSW
Phish
Dead
David
From: Len Moskowitz <moskowit@panix.com>
Subject: Re: Stereo with different brand microphones
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 11:40:26 -0500 (EST)
"Asher Dunn" <adunn@wirx.net> wrote:
> I was just wondering how much influence using two different brands of =
> microphones would have upon a stereo recording, especially if they were =
> of similar quality. Would AKGs mix with Neumanns or B&K. I know about =
> waveform matching, but I still wonder.
Ideally you want two matched mics. Matched means matched in
sensitivity, off-axis response across the band and sometimes phase. If
the'yre not matched you'll end up with channel imbalances, off-axis
sound coloration, and other weirdness.
It's unlikely that you'll find two mics of different models from
different manufacturers that are well matched. Sometimes it's hard to
match two of the same model from the same manufacturer!
Len Moskowitz Stealth Microphones (tm), Cables, Interfaces
Core Sound http://www.core-sound.com
moskowit@panix.com Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912
From: "Klay Anderson" <klay@klay.com>
Subject: Phanom of the Power
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:21:35 -0700
Eric Angel <ejangel@ucdavis.edu>
Subject: Fugazi / Phantom Power
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:15:02 -0800
asked:
<< When the specs on mics(like AT853) say
they need 9-52V of Phantom power, what is optimal? 9V, 52V, or somewhere
in between? If more power is better, has anyone personally built a power
supply with 1 or 2 9V batteries and basic op-amps like the LM741(I think
that's the #)? Are basic op-amps suitable for use in power supplies, or
are they too noisy? Anyone have any schematics for power supplies? I
have some ideas of my own, but I'd like to see what other
manufacturers/people do.>>
First, the mic will function identically at 9 or 52vdc of phantom. The
other side is that with true condenser mics like Neumanns (the AT's are
electrets), 48v is what they want and that is what they work at. Electrets
are more forgiving. For phantom powering, one really only needs some DC,
some precision current limiting resistors and some high-quality DC-blocking
caps.
Regards,
Klay Anderson
klay@klay.com
http://www.klay.com
1.800.FOR.KLAY
From: "Klay Anderson" <klay@klay.com>
Subject: DVD Standards
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:31:33 -0700
Mr. David Rodgers and others have been hypothesizing on the future of audio
DVD, and rightly so. May I respectfully point out that there isn't even a
standard yet? For further information, one may wish to see the AES
Standards Committee recommendations at
http://www.aes.org/standards/reports/SC-02-M-REPORT.html
and some info from Dolby at
http://www.dolby.com/digital/
and
http://www.dolby.com/dvd/
Regards,
Klay Anderson
klay@klay.com
http://www.klay.com
1.800.FOR.KLAY
From: Ron Dalton <RDalton@najarian.com>
Subject: David Grisman Taping policy??
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:28:38 -0500
Hey All -
I did check the "Bands that allow taping" afore I mailed in this question.
What is David Grisman's policy on taping?? He's playing in the area that I
live in (Monmouth Univ., like 2 min. from my house) and I already have 12th
row center tix. Now I'm trying to see if the facility will be cool w/ a
stand, etc.
As ususal, all help is appreciated.
Thankx
Ron Dalton
From: "jesse volner" <mentholiptus@hotmail.com>
Subject: DVD-RAM
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 09:48:36 PST
Is it possible to burn CDr (for music) on a DVD-RAM drive in the new
G3's ?
jesse
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From: art <art@marinternet.com>
Subject: XY
Reply-To: art@marinternet.com
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:10:48 -0800
>From: Dan Clark <clarkda@NKU.EDU>Subject: X/Y question
>Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:17:48 -0500
>When running X/Y, is there supposed to be a tiny gap or should one cap
>actually "lay" on the other? I've heard that phase shift during X/Y
occurs
>where there is any distance but I've seen illustrations in books and
>literature that looks as if there is a tiny distance (1/8"-1/16").
I've
>done both and not been able tell a difference. Just curious as to the
>technically correct answerThanks,Dan
Hi Dan,
>Bear in mind that, in general, sound travels at about 1 ft per
millisecond.
>With this in mind, microphones that are separated by one foot are only
one
>millisecond out of phase if they are in relation to a common sound
source.
>While x/y is applied for phase coherency, it will often lead to
recordings
>with a narrow stereo image (ie. the sound seems to come from between
the two
l>oudspeakers.
>However, a slight phase shift, like that caused by near-coincident
pickup
>patterns (ORTF being one), actually results in a wider stereo
image--the
>sound seems to come from both speakers and the space in between. In an
>interesting paper, shared by Wes Dooley at an AES convention a few
years
>back, he discussed how it is this phase shift that actually gives the
l>istener the feeling of stereo separation. Taken to the extreme,
spacing
>microphones too far apart can lead to a sense of a whole in between the
>speakers.
>Happy Taping.
>Marc
Depending upon the stage setup, depending upon the instruments played
and stage amplification, & depending upon mics and mic placement, you
can get excellent results from XY. Also depends if you're attempting
to capture audio from the PA or from the stage. In addition, the quality
of your 'home stereo' and the results that you get (looking for) have
everything to do about your live recording techniques.
XY works best the closer you get to the stage or on stage. I keep mics
very close (not quite touching) and use a 'lifter' on one side of the
mic bar that's about 2 inches (pretty safe bet when using windscreens).
Also I've used one that's about 1 inch (w/o screens). After lots of
listening, I 'really can't tell the difference'. The idea is to take a
stereo picture of what's happening on stage.
Results can vary, from breathtakingly accurate to average. Become
friends w/ your local bands and experiment with close up recordings.
What's the right image? Try XY front and stage center. 90 or 110 or 75
or whatever degrees separation depends again your gear, the act, and
the desired results. Best to practice, practice, practice every chance
you get. Art
From: Gordon Gidluck <ggidluck@artelco.com>
Subject: Western Digital Drives
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:19:15 -0800
>
> From: David Hollister <dhollist@iphase.com>
> Subject: [Fwd: DAT-Heads Digest #784]
> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:57:31 -0700
>
> > From: treizes1@mail-atm.nycap.rr.com
> > Subject: Hard drives: recomendations?
> > Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 12:52:55 +0000
> > ...
> > In the post it was recomended to stay away from western digital U
> > DMAs (they created it I believe).
>
> I have a Western Digital 6.4GB UDMA drive, and it hasn't given me any
> problems. Is there a specific problem somebody mentioned? Should I be
> aware of anything about them?
>
> --
> David Hollister - S/W Engineer - Interphase Corp.
> DAT/CD list: http://www.public.asu.edu/~dhollist
>
I have been using Western Digital Caviar IDE drives almost exclusively
in systems I have been building. Partly, this was because we were using
the drives at work in a computer telephony application, and I found them
to be very reliable for audio use.
Gordon Gidluck
From: swsmith@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: X/Y
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:55:50 -0600 (CST)
Y'all wrote:
=======================================
From: "Marc Nutter" <sncsns@henge.com>
Subject: X/Y
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:29:10 -0700
>From: Dan Clark <clarkda@NKU.EDU>Subject: X/Y question
>Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 21:17:48 -0500
>When running X/Y, is there supposed to be a tiny gap or should one cap
>actually "lay" on the other? I've heard that phase shift during X/Y occurs
>where there is any distance but I've seen illustrations in books and
>literature that looks as if there is a tiny distance (1/8"-1/16"). I've
>done both and not been able tell a difference. Just curious as to the
>technically correct answerThanks,Dan
Hi Dan,
Bear in mind that, in general, sound travels at about 1 ft per millisecond.
With this in mind, microphones that are separated by one foot are only one
millisecond out of phase if they are in relation to a common sound source.
While x/y is applied for phase coherency, it will often lead to recordings
with a narrow stereo image (ie. the sound seems to come from between the two
loudspeakers.
However, a slight phase shift, like that caused by near-coincident pickup
patterns (ORTF being one), actually results in a wider stereo image--the
sound seems to come from both speakers and the space in between. In an
interesting paper, shared by Wes Dooley at an AES convention a few years
back, he discussed how it is this phase shift that actually gives the
listener the feeling of stereo separation. Taken to the extreme, spacing
microphones too far apart can lead to a sense of a whole in between the
speakers.
Happy Taping.
Marc
=============================
Absolutely correct, Marc! It's the combination of time arrival information with slight
differences in phase that create the percieved illusion of depth and space called "stereo" in the
first place. An X/Y pair properly used can have adequate stereo imaging, but this does require
that they be set up at a distance that matches the angle of acceptance of the pair. This angle is
dependent on the type of capsules used (eg: an X/Y pair of figure 8 mics = 90 degree angle; an X/Y
pair of cardioids = 180 degrees), not the angle between the mics themselves, BTW.
In practical terms, if you're running cards or hypers X/Y at the back of the stadium, more
likely than not you are effectively recording a narrow image of the sound system inside a wider
stereo image of the stadium itself. Think about the mic pair as if it were a camera - if you move
away from the object you are trying to capture, the object gets smaller and more of the
surrounding scene is included in the picture.
If you want more of this kind of theory, and can deal w/ the math, I'd reccomend finding copies
of "Stereo Microphone Techniques" by Bruce Bartlett, and "Sound Assistance" by Michael-Talbot
Smith. I believe both of these basic texts are still in print.
...and now I'm gone to apply this to a couple of moe. shows... ;)
<0 \\ swsmith@ix.netcom.com Stan Smith Dallas, TX 'boo-cat'
:) "Wrote a letter, mailed it in the air . . ."
<0 // Viola Lee Blues - Grateful Dead
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