DAT-Heads Digest #901
Contents:
String Cheese Incident ("Neil Sturtevant")
ISO guy who taped Bobby Lee Rodgers 4-10-99 (Joshua Nicotra)
Re: upsampling questions (Seth Breidbart)
Re: SACD to be released, probably doomed (JimTroy@aol.com)
Re: Sony SACD ("David D. Rogers")
SAMPLES @ THE FOX THEATRE/ ISO PHISH 4/4/92 (ZAndersson@aol.com)
METALLICA ANCHORAGE, ALASKA ("king chazz")
CD-->CD, or CD-->HD-->CD (Aschultzy@aol.com)
ISO: DMB 11/20/94 - Vail, CO DSBD (American-Digital)
Dat20>>DatPort>>Dell>>Phillips 8100 Questions! ("Darryn Schneider")
dAT Storage (Russell & Michael Brand)
Re: Leaving DATs running unattended ("Larry Slavens")
I haven't ripped anyone off... (KindTaper@aol.com)
Taping Moxy Fruvous (Aaron Westendorf)
re: Ozric Tentacles (Steve)
Re: SACD (JimTroy@aol.com)
Trower w/ Savoy Brown (Thomas Nast)
Extra DMB dat's ("allan chen")
roger waters tour '99 (GaoBest@aol.com)
From: "Neil Sturtevant" <neil@directed.com>
Subject: String Cheese Incident
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:12:39 -0700
did anybody catch/tape these guys at the Belly Up in february this year. a
good friend is hopefull for a copy. i would be grateful :-) lots to
trade... & thanx
Neil Sturtevant
From: Joshua Nicotra <opermgr@cigarsavor.com>
Subject: ISO guy who taped Bobby Lee Rodgers 4-10-99
Reply-To: Joshua Nicotra <opermgr@cigarsavor.com>
Date: 15 Apr 99 14:00:30 -0500
Hey all,
I am looking for the gentleman who came to the lizard lounge this past saturday and taped Bobby Lee Rodgers to DAT. You left before I had a chance to speak with you, and I was hoping to speak with you about the results of the taping. Thanks for coming out....
Josh
Joshua Nicotra
Operations Manager
Cigar Savor Enterprises
www.cigarsavor.com 800 372-2069
From: Seth Breidbart <sethb@panix.com>
Subject: Re: upsampling questions
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:40:31 -0400 (EDT)
> most of my stuf is obviously 14, 16, or 20 bit at either 44.056, 44.1, or
> 48 khz. is there anything to gain by upsampling my audio to 24 bit 96khz?
As a general rule, you can't create useful music information. If
you're going to play with the sound (EQ, normalizing, etc.), then use
as many bits as possible to minimize the noise added; otherwise,
there's no musical difference between a sample of .1234 and one of
.1234000 even though the latter looks more "accurate".
Seth
From: JimTroy@aol.com
Subject: Re: SACD to be released, probably doomed
Reply-To: JimTroy@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:49:44 EDT
In a message dated 4/15/99 12:06:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
DAT-Heads-Request@fedney.near.net writes:
<< Re: SACD to be released, probably doomed >>
V
>We will never have a 24-bit quality source. It can't be done.
>Andrew.
==============================================
Never say 'never', Andrew. You'll be like the guy at the Wright Brothers'
shop who wanted to
keep working on bicycles. :) . . . and it's already been done, it's just too
damn expensive for
the average guy like you or me to own one yet. Sort of reminds me of where
television was back in
the early '50s . . . "Who'd ever buy one of those when you can go to the
movies for a dime?" ;)
The new Tascam DA-45HR 24 bit DAT machine seems to be of enough quality to
be selling rapidly to
the high end studios & even some of the project/small studio owners. Tascam
even seems to have
the total tape recording time vs. sampling rate equation balanced out as
well. >>
Solving the problems of getting 24/96 or higher on tape is a neat trick,
but it seems to me we must be near the end of that road. The real promise
should be on hard drives, where space is ceasing to be an issue -- 20 GB
desktops are now common, and you can get an 8 GB notebook for under $3k. Add
a DATport and recording software and you've got a portable 24/96 system.
The TV reference is apt, and suggested asn analogy for the people who think
you can't perceive an audible difference from higher resolutions. Look at a
cheap monitor; you don't see spaces between the pixels, because it couldn't
be sold at that resolution -- the dot pitch is just small enough (maybe .31
mm) to provide a smooth image. Now compare it to a high-end display (maybe.22
mm); can you tell the difference? This is very loosely analagous to comparing
a digital audio system bandwidth-limited to 22khz (roughly the lowest point
where we're sure not to lose audible sine waves) with one providing a
headroom factor of 2 or more.
If you just hate to see expensive new technology, take heart. Once the
state of the art moves on, the old format usually becomes cheap mass-market
stuff. We may see the $200 D8 soon!
Jim
From: "David D. Rogers" <drogers@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Sony SACD
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:53:11 -0700
>From: Alex Douglass <adouglas@airmail.net>
>Subject: Sony SACD
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:53:40 +0100
>Sony just announced that they will be releasing a SACD player in
>Japan next month for around $4100 U.S.
!!!
Although Sony previously stated
>that the SACD would be backwards compatible with regular CDs (meaning
>that they could be played on regular CD players), they now state that this
>will not be the case. As you may remember, the original plan was to
>have a SACD with a layer of 'regular CD format - 8-to-14 modulation
encoded' and then a SACD layer. If put into a normal CD player, the laser
would focus on the normal CD layer. For SACD players, the SACD layer would
be used.
>Sony says that to have a 2 layer disc like this, the cost would be too
high for the consumer market, therefore the SACD will not be backward
compatible with CD players. [SACD will however, migrate down to portable
devices such as Disc-Man (SuperDisc-Man???) type products.]
This is not too surprising. For one, requiring a "Red Book" layer adds to
the cost, not only for manufacturing, but for mastering. (I didn't know
that adding another layer cost so much--how much, anyway?) When the Red
Book layer becomes obsolete, Sony and Philips would more-or-less have to
abandon that requirement anyway. Of course, if you're going to spend $4100
for a player, the extra costs of the discs might not be that much of an
impediment. :) Sony really seems to be relegating this to the "hobby"
level, seemingly an admission that this will never be a mass-market product.
>Unfortunately, the new Japanese player will not have digital outputs due
to the present dilemma of copy protection, watermarking, etc. Not good,
especially for a $4100 player!!
Certainly.
>Interesting enough, Sony nows says that they will support DVD-Audio! Yes,
this is the format that SACD is/was competing with. Whether or not
DVD-Audio will be supported on the Japan-released SACD player next month is
another question.
Anyone who can afford a $4100 player can also afford a DVD Audio player,
which will only cost a few more hundred bucks. <G> DVD Audio will most
likely be comparatively cheap, almost certainly cheaper than Sony's first
CD player in 1982 (about $1000). Any company currently making DVD Video
players will have access to DVD Audio technology, and the extra costs
should be relatively minimal--save perhaps the DAC's for pure 24/192
signals, which may be downsampled on early players. (But really, how many
of those 24/192 discs will there really be?)
>I guess this means that newer SACD players will have to incorporate MLP,
Meridian Lossless Packet(ing, izing?) already adopted by the standard
committe for DVD-Audio. This essentially compresses the data as it is
written to disc, and decompresses it when it is read for playback.
Furthermore, I've read that MLP is not used in the SACD encoding/decoding
process. Will these SACD/DVD-Audio players cost more? Maybe, since they
will have to license MLP (designed by Meridian Audio but licensed through
Dolby Labs).
Not quite. SACD has its own lossless compression scheme, invented by
Philips, that's a part of the SACD standard. It will already be a part of
the royalties paid to Sony/Philips. Since Sony and Philips don't seem to be
very big about making compromises, I very much doubt that SACD will be in
many showrooms this Xmas.
Peace,
<> David
From: ZAndersson@aol.com
Subject: SAMPLES @ THE FOX THEATRE/ ISO PHISH 4/4/92
Reply-To: ZAndersson@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:16:54 EDT
Hello all,
Sorry for the lack of DAT content, but I just taped The Samples at the Fox
Theare on my MiniDisc. I was patched into a guy named Sandy, who was running
a soundboard/mic mix. The show turned out amazing. If anyone would like a
copy on CD I'll spin them a copy for a trade or B/P.
I've also had a hell of a time finding my second Phish show anywhere. If
anyone has the show at the University of Colorado fieldhouse in Boulder .
4/4/92 I would love to get a copy of it. I have quite a bit to trade. Thanks
for reading this.
Peace
Zach Andersson
From: "king chazz" <kingchazz18@hotmail.com>
Subject: METALLICA ANCHORAGE, ALASKA
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:48:54 PDT
does anyone have or know where i can get this or either of the hawaii shows? if so, please email me asap. i have lots to trade and am willing to buy. please help.
-chazz
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
From: Aschultzy@aol.com
Subject: CD-->CD, or CD-->HD-->CD
Reply-To: Aschultzy@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:00:49 EDT
I was just wondering which of these methods is preferable. I just got a
computer and both seem to work the same. Which is the standard method.
Also, can anyone reccommend a recording program. Adaptec EasyCD seems very
basic. Is CDRWin better?
Andrew
From: American-Digital <dan@am-dig.com>
Subject: ISO: DMB 11/20/94 - Vail, CO DSBD
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:14:33 -0400
Just made beautiful discs of DMB at the Fox Theatre
in Colorado on Nov.17,18 & 19, 1994. Would really
love to get this other show to complete the Colorado
run. Will trade the above on CD or DAT. Or many
other things to trade.
Thanks-
Dan
From: "Darryn Schneider" <darryns@thestreet.com>
Subject: Dat20>>DatPort>>Dell>>Phillips 8100 Questions!
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:30:04 -0400
I am converting DATS to CD's using the datport. Right now I am using Cool
edit 96. I can't justify paying $300 for Cool edit pro. Does anyone know how
I can create tracks within the wav file so that when I save it to the CD, I
can skip from song to song without any blank space?? I'm sure this question
has come up before, but I'm a newbie to the whole DAT>CD Transfer. Also, if
someone will burn me a copy of Soundforge or cool edit pro, I'll kick down a
few sick Soundboard CDR's or DATS. Have tons of shit, including some sick
old and new pheesh, Charlie hunter, Greyboys, Dead, Reconstruction, Legion,
Meters, George Porter, and other stuff. Any help would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks!
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Darryn Schneider
TheStreet.Com
212-602-0453
darryn@thestreet.com
From: Russell & Michael Brand <brandbro@i-2000.com>
Subject: dAT Storage
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 22:21:10 -0400
hey Now,
I need some good advise from someone who actually knows.
I will be moving to the U.S. Virgin Islands in the next two years.
I am concerned about the temperature in the Carribean, and how it will
affect my dats.
Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of proper temperature storage in a
really hot place.
I will be building a house from scratch and can/will build a "wine cellar
type closet if necessary.
please advise.
Thank you,
RB
From: "Larry Slavens" <IArooster@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Leaving DATs running unattended
Reply-to: IArooster@earthlink.net
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 21:31:23 -0500
>Lately I have been setting tapes to clone before I leave the house in
the AM
>and returning at lunch time to start another. The elapsed time between
>visits usually is in the area of 4 to 5 hours. Providing that once a 1.5 to
>2 hour tape is finished cloning it is usually sitting in the deck(s) (a
>PCM-M1 and R300) until I get home I began to wonder whether or not
this is
>considered 'safe' practice and what the consequences are of doing so.
I'd recommend not doing this. One time, to keep from falling behind
during an active trading period, I did the "start a tape before going to
work, change tapes at lunch" thing. Could be purely coincidental, but
checking out the clones prior to mailing revealed a couple tapes loaded
with diginoise. Best I could figure was that the heads had plugged on
my "recording" deck during this extended use.
The were several posts a year or so ago debating whether the head
drum keeps spinning and in contact with the tape even during long idle
periods. Since my problem went away with couple good cleanings and a
couple hours of playback time, I suspect plugged heads, and since the
tape involved was a name-brand I've never had any problems with, I've
blamed that five hour period it was in the deck.
Maybe it was coincidence, but it was enough to make me stop.
Besides, if you're trading that much, when are you going to have time to
listen to all your new stuff? <g>
Larry
From: KindTaper@aol.com
Subject: I haven't ripped anyone off...
Reply-To: KindTaper@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:34:13 EDT
<<From: "Darren Stein" <dstein@njcmail.ups.com>>>
I feel your pain. I sent this guy two halloween tickets last year and in
return he was supposed to spin me about 10 shows. I never got anything!!>>
This is garbage. The only halloween tickets I got were from a guy in Syracuse
and he was paid a long, long time ago. I dont even know who this guy is, but
he must be a total loser to come on here and make up stuff about me.
Any of you who know me know I would never cheat or rip off anyone. Even as
financially and emotionally hard pressed as I have been lately, I always get
people their stuff, even if it is a little later than I want it to be. But
NEVER paying someone? Get a life, guy...
From: Aaron Westendorf <westea@rpi.edu>
Subject: Taping Moxy Fruvous
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:40:22 -0400
If anyone has taped Moxy before, I'd be interested in hearing what the
experience was like. Did you have any problems? Did they allow board
patches? I plan on seeing them on 5/6, and I'd like to tape the show if
possible.
thanks,
Aaron
--
====================================================
Aaron J. Westendorf
DAT List -> http://www.rpi.edu/~westea/dat
"Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate, but
that we are powerful beyond measure"
====================================================
From: Steve <steve@chronictonic.com>
Subject: re: Ozric Tentacles
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:12:07
Larry wrote:
>To anyone intersted in Ozric Tentacles:
>
>May 7 - Wetlands, NYC
>May 8 - Wetlands, NYC
>May 15 - TLA, Philly
Fri May 14th is in Towson MD. Supposedly they are taper friendly (I did
recieve an e-mail from the person who runs their "official" web site, and
he did say that board acess and DAT are fine with the band).
On that note, I'm looking for any Ozric DATs (I do have some to trade) or
CD-Rs.
Steve
************************************
Steve Logan
Navpoint Internet
http://www.navpoint.com
215-836-4600 fax 215-836-2728
From: JimTroy@aol.com
Subject: Re: SACD
Reply-To: JimTroy@aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:49:43 EDT
In a message dated 4/15/99 8:24:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Andrewwrote:
<<
Think about what 144dB is. A dynamic range from the quietest
anechoic room to a sound loud enough instantly to deafen you.
What's the point?
>>
The point is to get the format envelope out to where it will definitely not
be the limiting factor in soubd quality. The reason for that is that it's
technologically feasible and relatively cheap -- unlike microphones, for
example, which have reached the point in their design curve where any
improvement costs a fortune.
I'm frustrated that I can record better sound on my hard drive with 20-bit
software and A/D converter than I can put on DAT. I'm hoping the next
standard is one beyond which I'll never be able to hear a difference.
Jim
From: Thomas Nast <tbn@eskimo.com>
Subject: Trower w/ Savoy Brown
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 23:07:53 -0700 (PDT)
I hope some NYC head makes it to Tramps Saturday night. Robin Trower is
playing, with Savoy Brown (Kim Simmonds and whoever he's touring with
these days). This is the only venue the two are appearing together.
Two of Britain's finest on the same stage -- if I was within a thousand
miles I'd be there.
Th.B. Nast
Seattle, WA
From: "allan chen" <kaiyen@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Extra DMB dat's
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 00:37:28 -0700
hey guys,
got 2 extra's that I'd like to trade off if possible, though B&P is fine
(after all, we gotta help each other out). both are 90m.
6/8/97 Hartford Meadows with bela fleck and the flecktones.
8/26/98 Tampa Bay
thanks,
allan chen
========================================
kaiyen@stanford.edu History
http://www.stanford.edu/~kaiyen Stanford U., Class of 2000
From: GaoBest@aol.com
Subject: roger waters tour '99
Reply-To: GaoBest@aol.com
Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 06:10:06 EDT
wow! i still cannot believe this is happening, so weird. so who's taping,
this is a must-attend type situation, but of course, only for those of you
who believe that Reg is Pink... well anyways, hopefully we can get this
sorted...
Here are the dates of the tour. Some places aren't confirmed yet though.
> July
> 23 Milwaukee, WI Mecca Auditorium
> 24 Chicago, IL Rosemont Theater
> 25 Clarkston, MI (Detroit) Pine Knob
> 27 Cleveland, OH Nautica
> 28 Syracuse, NY Landmark Theater
> 30 Quebec City L'Agora
> 31 Montreal QUE Molson Center Theatre
>
> August
> 1 Toronto ONT Molson Amphitheatre
> 4 Boston MA Tweeter Center (Great Woods)
> 6 Holmdel, NJ PNC Arts Center
> 7 Wantaugh, NY Jones Beach
> 8 Wallingford, CT Oakdale Theater
> 11 Camden, NJ E Center
> 13 Scranton, PA Montage Mountain
> 14 Darien Lake, NY Darien Lake
> 15 Columbus, OH Veteran Memorial Center
> 17 Hershey Park, PA Hershey Star Pavilion
> 18 Pittsburgh, PA IC Light Pavilion
> 20 Baltimore, MD Pier 6 Concert Pavilion
> 21 Atlanta, GA Chastain Park
>
> http://www.roger-waters.com
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