DAT-Heads Digest #914
Contents:
Re: BUDD: Sony RM300 Problems!!!!! (Rich Perlman)
D8 absolute time (Robert Donovan)
Digital Soundcard Info (Michael Cheney)
Anyone Taping HOLE in Philly? (The Brood)
tapers of KCRW radio? (Rob Gronotte)
subscribe (DATJAMS@aol.com)
Re: One Minute of Blank Space ("John R. Vanderpool")
Re: One Minute of Blank Space (Seth Breidbart)
ABB 3/13/99 Beacon Theater show (Danny McCarthy)
NEED Neil Young meet & greet tix Chicago (tjp@cyberdude.com)
ISO: D+T 3.10.99 (OnTrane@aol.com)
ISO: the Funky Meters...4-17-99...HOB's chi-town (kathy & mike)
No DAT - CDR, and whining (Matt Agnew)
ISO David Lemieux (Jonathan Rozes)
Re: Compression............. (Cdcreator@aol.com)
Re: soundforge (Cdcreator@aol.com)
DAE problems...any ideas? (Dears1314@aol.com)
Re: Springsteen show recordings DAT-Heads Digest #913 (GuySonic@aol.com)
Looking to buy equiptment ("Josh Mohrer")
From: Rich Perlman <montclair@cyburban.com>
Subject: Re: BUDD: Sony RM300 Problems!!!!!
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 12:37:10 -0700
Hey Mooney & all,
Your transport needs to be re-aligned. It has nothing to do with dirty
heads, nor media used.
This same thing happened to my R300
at about 350 hours and now, again, at 1100 hours. This machine is
warrantied for 90 days for labor. I bought the 5 yr extended warranty,
which has already paid for itself. I used ProDigital for the repairs
and was more than satisfied. Phone is: 610-353-2400. There are other
recommendable repair places out there. I'm sure other BUDDies
can fill you in on their favorites. Trade on.........
Richard
Mooney Monteilh wrote:
>
> Sorry for the grovel, but I'm having some strange problems w/ my deck.
> It is writing diginoise on my tapes ( KAO Gold, Sony DTs, & Sony DGs),
> but it's only after 120minutes of recording, it's happened on about 8
> tapes in a row.
> I'm hoping it's just dirty, but because of where its putting the
> diginoise, it has gotten me confused.
> Any info. would be highly appreciated.
> Thanks for the grovel and time,
> mooney
From: rdonovan@wyoming.com (Robert Donovan)
Subject: D8 absolute time
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 11:19:25 -0600
I recently purchased a D8 and have taped 3 or 4 shows. The tapes saound
great but I have one problem. The deck won't let me ff to the one min mark
before I tape. I keeps reading blank (which the tape is). Is the common
practice to press play until the tape is at 1:00? Also my tapes don't want
to display absolute time. Any help would be appreciated.
rdonovan@wyoming.com
thanks in advance
Robert
From: Michael Cheney <Michael.Cheney@drake.edu>
Subject: Digital Soundcard Info
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:20:38 -0500
I am looking for a straight ahead soundcard to put into my PC which
would let me input digital audio. Don't need lots of special
effects, etc.
Advice, web pages, etc. would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Michael
From: The Brood <eric@ptd.net>
Subject: Anyone Taping HOLE in Philly?
Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 15:59:06 -0400
I know I already asked this before on this mailing
list, but I'm assuming not everybody reads every
single digest.
But is anybody planning on taping Hole in Philadelphia
on May 15 at the Electric Factory? I wanted to go to
the show but an unexpected trip came up, then I was going
to offer a ticket for someone to tape it, but it sold out,
so if anybody has a ticket and is planning on taping, please
let me know. We'll work something and I'll offer whatever
I can.
Thank You,
Eric
eric@ptd.net
From: Rob Gronotte <rob@patriot.net>
Subject: tapers of KCRW radio?
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 16:30:05 -0400 (EDT)
Just wondering if anyone here is in the Los Angeles area and regularly
tapes the Morning Becomes Eclectic shows on KCRW. They regularly have
artists I like on the show, and LA is one of the few major cities where I
have no connections.
Rob
Why don't you come up and surf me sometime? --> http://www.patriot.net/users/rob
From: DATJAMS@aol.com
Subject: subscribe
Reply-To: DATJAMS@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:29:41 EDT
From: fish@daacdev1.gsfc.nasa.gov ("John R. Vanderpool")
Subject: Re: One Minute of Blank Space
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:08:26 -0400 (EDT)
> Dick Ziegler wrote...
> Why is one minute of blank space usually put at the beginning of a tape.
due to (over paranoia in my opinion) about known problems with error
rates at the beginnging of a tape - i think about 10 seconds is
probably sufficient (i curr use 15 sec for my tapes, 30 sec for tapes
that go out)
i think when the tape is made and its cut and attached the very
beggining can have problems
1 minute is .5 meter which really probably isn't enuf to re-attach the
tape to the hub if it were to snap anyway (maybe it is - i have never
had a tape snap a beggining and had to try to do it)
i'm sure i weill be opening another holy war with this msg :-) blank
leader and 60m/90m are always an issue
fish
--
"it's so easy to slip, it's so easy to fall,
and let your memory drift and do nothing at all..." -lowell george
John R. Vanderpool <fish@daacdev1.gsfc.nasa.gov> NASA/GSFC/RSTX
From: Seth Breidbart <sethb@panix.com>
Subject: Re: One Minute of Blank Space
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:05:13 -0400 (EDT)
Used data tapes have the directory (which gets the most use) in the
first minute of the tape, so it makes sense not to use that part when
such tapes are re-used for audio.
Examining tapes, it appears that it only takes a few inches to
reattach a broken tape, so under a minute should be fine. But then,
unless a show is really close to the tape length, why not start with a
minute of blank leader?
Seth
From: Danny McCarthy <mccar24@yahoo.com>
Subject: ABB 3/13/99 Beacon Theater show
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 17:05:31 -0700 (PDT)
Hi Folks,
I was curious if anyone had a copy of the ABB 3/13/99
Beacon show that they would be interested in trading or
doing B/P for? This was my only show of the run and I
was unable to tape that night. Not that this is totally
important, but I was looking for a particular source...
Neumann KM184's>Oade P/S>Tascam DA-P1. The person had
the mics hanging off the first balcony, basically over
the soundboard. I have a copy from this source already,
but it unfortunately has diginoise throughout the High
Falls. Thanks a lot for the space and sorry for the
grovel.
-Danny mccar24@yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
From: tjp@cyberdude.com
Subject: NEED Neil Young meet & greet tix Chicago
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:57:53 -0500
it's a long story but i really, really need meet & greet tickets or
wheelchair seating. i am in need of at least 1 meet & greet ticket
for 2 neil young shows in chicago (4/30 & 5/1). i will make dubs or
burns for you. respond asap. if you have them reply to me or fwd
my address to someone whom does have tickets.
tim
From: OnTrane@aol.com
Subject: ISO: D+T 3.10.99
Reply-To: OnTrane@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 21:03:16 EDT
I'm looking for this Dave and Tim show from New Mexico, 3/10/99. I have lots
to trade - please respond! Thanks!
Rob
From: kathy & mike <schumi@theramp.net>
Subject: ISO: the Funky Meters...4-17-99...HOB's chi-town
Reply-To: schumi@theramp.net
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 20:49:14 -0500
hey ya'll,
subject says it all....
in dire need of this show:-)
Meters....4-17-99....HOB's Chicago
it rocked!
thanks and peace,
-Mike
Analog Tapelist at:
http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/backstage/4945/index.html
DAT List at:
http://www.gdlists.org/lists/s/schumi@theramp.net.shtml
From: magnew@together.net (Matt Agnew)
Subject: No DAT - CDR, and whining
Reply-To: magnew@together.net
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 02:08:56 GMT
I'll get the whines out of the way first - why do I never hear about the
great bands until shortly after they play here? Just got turned on to
Banyan, Scofield, and MMW. Wow! Won't miss the next shows.
Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has compiled a market posting of CDR
drives. This info, of course, changes almost daily, but it would be great
to know what drives folks have good luck with and what to flee from. Would
maybe help keep this type of post to a minimum. Is RW that big a deal? The
media costs are so high I figure I can make several coasters and still come
out ahead.
The stock CDrom in my Dell, as well as other drives I have seen, has a
digital out jack - is this anything I'm interested in? Do most recent
(within a year) CD drives do reliable DAE or is it basically a crapshoot?
Taping They Might Be Giants next month - I know they aren't taper-friendly,
but are they aggresive about it?
Obligatory unidecker grovel - TMBG/Mono Puff, Hepcat, Uncle Tupelo.
Thanks,
Matt
The DAT newbie page -
http://homepages.together.net/~magnew/dattips.htm
From: Jonathan Rozes <jrozes@vinton.com>
Subject: ISO David Lemieux
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 19:08:46 -0700 (PDT)
Hi,
If David Lemieux (formerly dh_lemi@alcor.concordia.ca) is out there, or if
somebody has current contact info, please get in touch with me.
Thanks!
jonathan
+++ Jonathan Rozes, System Administrator, Will Vinton Studios
From: Cdcreator@aol.com
Subject: Re: Compression.............
Reply-To: Cdcreator@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:29:12 EDT
As I stated above, yes, the concept behind compression is to squash the
dynamic range. However, it sounds like that you are confusing dynamic
compression with data compression. MP3 files don't sound as good as
uncompressed PCM audio as MP3 and MiniDisc use a frequency-masking algorithm
in order to save on file space, therefore, the sound quality is dramatically
reduced. All that dynamic compression does is minimize the dynamic range and
does have any thing to do with data compression.
Thanks,
Dylan
> Compression kills the dynamics of music!! It is a great tool for acoustic
> based
> insturment's (drums,vocals,acoustic guitar,& bass) & for individual
> use....but
> as a whole it is overused!! Imagine it as a 'invisable' wall between the
> music & you!!!
> If used on individual tracks -1- mixdown -2- mastering -3- & played
> on the radio,satellite,
> or transfer to MP 3 or a wave= 4 invisable "walls" on the music. As a
> songwriter/guitarist/
> singer I was frustrated why the "Dynamics" of my music was lost in the
> recording process.
> Plus having a very sharp ear I heard my original guitar sound being
lost
> in the 3 to 4 layer
> process of tracking to finished product. & Cymbals BIG TIME!! I have
> used compression on
> live recordings (2 track,condenser mic.'s)
> to keep the levels from distorting to Mini-Disc....(which has a level of
> compression as well,)
> Just keep the threshold low & light and you won't lose much of the
> dynamics.....I recorded
> a swing band recently & this process worked great!!!.....Let's put the
> dynamics back into
> music!!!! If you use DAT for live recording..same process....When you
master
> on your CPU
> just edge your levels up (volume) a 1/2 a decible at a time to get it up to
> "0" db...........
> Much better than using compression for level adjustment!!!!!!! great point
> James!!!!!
> Peace...:::Doug:::... check out my live clips from Mini-Disc on
> THRUST ! page........
> www.benroth-entertainment.com Drums are too loud but hey it's a 'live 1
> take recording'!!!
>
From: Cdcreator@aol.com
Subject: Re: soundforge
Reply-To: Cdcreator@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:28:50 EDT
Jamie,
I often times forget that I am speaking to an audience that mostly tapes live
shows. Most of the work that I do is studio related, which is why it is in my
nature to recommend compression. I have done my fair share of mastering in
the past, and most people want their recordings loud as hell and could give a
frog's fat ass about maintaining dynamic integrity. Louder usually equals
better to most people, however, that obviously is not the goal with taping
live shows, nor is it my personal preference. The goal in live taping should
be to preserve the feel and environment of the live performance. However, I
have been severely misinterpreted by some of the responses, and I do not
apologize for anything that I said in previous post. First off, I never said
that there was any "magic" in using compression. Second, yes, compression
does kill the dynamics, which is the whole nature behind compression. I would
argue highly that 16-bit recording has a great enough dynamic range to allow
for excellent results at low volumes. The theory behind bit rate is simple;
every bit gives you 6 dB of resolution. Therefore, in a perfect world 16-bit
recording allows for up to 96 dB of resolution. However, most 16-bit systems
fall way short of this and are lucky to have A/D converters that reach 92dB.
And unless you are always smack at zero, you are not recording at all 16
bits. Therefore, most recording made on 16-bit devices like DAT, MDM, etc.,
more accurately represent a 12-bit signal. This is why 24-bit technology is
so nice as it allows more headroom for dynamics. Until tapers have access to
24-bit portable decks or very nice external A/D converters I see no problem
in using some compression in the mastering processing. I never said that you
have to squash the hell out of a mix or compression at some insane ratio,
just that it provides good results as opposed to just normalizing. Lastly, I
haven't had the opportunity to trade any live shows since I don't have a
portable taping rig yet, but when I do, I will make sure to make note of any
post production work that I did to the original recording.
Peace,
Dylan
> From: James Treworgy <jamie@treworgy.com>
> Subject: Re: soundforge
> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 09:54:11 -0700
> There's no magic to compression either. All it does is normalize using a
> certain formula to figure out how much to amplify based on the volume of
> that section of music. You get just as much noise as straight, flat
> normalization, except you lose the dyamics.
>
> The only time I would ever compress a live recording is if it was
> unlistenable otherwise, e.g. very low volume acoustic or acapella music
> with high-volume cheering, clapping. Compression brings everything into
> the same ball park. But usually you *want* the big dynamic range. Isn't
> that why we record on DATs and CDs? Isn't that why we talk about recording
> at 96khz at 32 bits? If you plan to compress the hell out of everything
> then you might was well stick with analog cassettes.
>
> >other ways of getting more quality out of a 16-bit signal. All in all, if
> the
> >music sounds good, who cares what techniques you used to get there?
>
> I hope you label any CDs you master with compression as such for the
> purposes of trading.
>
> Jamie
>
From: Dears1314@aol.com
Subject: DAE problems...any ideas?
Reply-To: Dears1314@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 22:38:07 EDT
I am having some super humongous problems with DAE and my drive, and I am
hoping some computer genius on here might happen to be able to help me out.
I recently replaced the motherboard on my computer, and upon getting it back,
I am no longer able to perform DAE. I am using a Ricoh MP6200A for the
procedure, and ECDC, CDRwin, and audiograbber for various fuctions. In
audiograbber, I am getting a "ASPI not responding error. In CDRWin, I am
getting a "ASPI bufer to large error." I have no idea at all what to do, and
this is kinda important. I am not even able to burn at this point, as I am
getting the same errors as when trying to do DAE. I don't think it is a
hardware issue, as it worked flawlessly before I had the board replaced, and
now doesn';t...so I am guessing it is a bad programing error somewhere along
the way. If anyone could help me out in fixing this, I will more than hook
you up with DATS/CD's whatever, as long as I get this thing fixed.
Regards and thanks,
Daryan
From: GuySonic@aol.com
Subject: Re: Springsteen show recordings DAT-Heads Digest #913
Reply-To: GuySonic@aol.com
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:01:43 EDT
In a message dated 4/21/99 5:43:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
DAT-Heads-Request@fedney.near.net writes:
<< ------------------------------
From: Ferdinando Ametrano <ametrano@altavista.net>
Subject: Springsteen show recordings
Reply-To: ametrano@altavista.net
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:38:31 +0100
Hi all
TAPING:
as a taper I am an absolute beginner.
I bought Sony PCM-M1 and Core Sound High End Binaural in order to tape the
Springsteen show of the current tour.
I recorded 2 show so far and I was unhappy with the results. The sound is
muddy, compressed, not clear.
I was right in the front of the speaker, in the seated section (so noboby
between me and the speakers).
I never peaked over zero, the peak level is around 4dB, so I guess I had
brickwalling.
I was taping using the mic in, the mic attenuation switch at -20dB, 48KHz,
without battery boxes bass roll-off filter.
Should I use line in or the battery boxes bass roll-off filter ?
thank you
ciao -- Nando
>>
Most likely you need to exclusively use the LINE input for most Rock
recording with these type capsules. Using the 'battery box with or without
the bass filter on' is only dependent on the tonal balance of the
presentation. If it's a good sounding show, leave out the bass filter.
Using the 'short' windscreen cap give less coloration than the longer one.
NOTE: When I tried using these DPA-4000 series capsules "as is" for the DSM-9
model, I was very displeased with the native coloration even when NOT using
the screen caps (which cause tonal peaks beneficial for voice, but not music
enhancement). Instead, I found that it was necessary to entirely "nude" the
tiny capsule by removing all the surrounding tube material hiding the mic
pickup itself to get the really great sound these small mics are capable of
providing. But this meant much labor and risk of damage for little gain over
the DSM-6S models at a third the eventual cost to the customer.
If only DPA would allow me to design the mic mounting properly to avoid the
intensive rework needed to make a truly fine sounding microphone without
having to commit to and afford an order of many thousands!
BTW, Your VU will not tell you about 'brickwalling,' only seeing where your
level knob is being set will indicate how 'hot' a signal is being presented
to at the output of the Line or Mic preamplifier. Since the M1 is virtually
overload proof when going in LINE, seeing were the level knob is set is
really only important when using the MIC input on this deck. The Level knob
should not have needed to be turned down below the #4 mark for VU peaks of
-12 dB VU or #4.5 for -6 dB VU peaks. You probably needed to have turned the
level knob to below #3.5 to get that type of distorted sound with those
fairly good sounding mics which are capable of easily handling (if properly
implemented and powered) recording the exhaust sounds of large jet aircraft
engines at 150 foot distance!.
My site has more on how avoiding overloads on MiniDecks works at:
<A
HREF="http://www.sonicstudios.com/tips.htm/">http://www.sonicstudios.com/tips.
htm/
</A>
Regards in DSM 'Stealth Mic' Sound & Music Recording,
Leonard 'the Stealth Mic Man (tm)' Lombardo
========================================
Sonic Studios(tm)..."Making Audio History With DSM(tm) Microphones"
TEL: 541-459-8839 /\ FAX: 541-459-8842 /\ USA Free: 1-888-875-4976
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Informative WEB SITE: http:// <A
HREF="http://www.sonicstudios.com">WWW.SONICSTUDIOS.COM
</A>
A better wish... "A bit of knowledge coupled to a great deal of wisdom"
From: "Josh Mohrer" <joshm@asan.com>
Subject: Looking to buy equiptment
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 23:11:12 -0400
Hi.. im brand new to DAT-heads, and somewhat new to DAT in general-
Ive skimmed through the archives for stuff for sale, but just in case i
missed anything-
Im looking to buy a Home Deck, a Portable Deck, and good mics, binaural or
cadiod.
If you are selling anything mentioned, please email me and let me know.
Im ready to buy.
Also, if anyone wants to buy new Minidisc Player/Recorders, i can get em and
maybe work some kind of MD/DAT trade, or just help you get a good a price.
Anyway, please anyone let me know
thanks
-josh
=================================
Josh Mohrer
EMail: JoMohrer@jtsa.edu or JoshM@asan.com
ICQ: 4142277
AOL: JMo531
"God put me on this earth to accomplish a certain number or things. Right
now, Im so far behind I'll never die."
"The rights of the best men are secure only as the rights of the vilest and
most abhorrent are protected."
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