DAT-Heads Digest #934

Contents:

Jazz is Dead (Dominic Amalfatano) change "Real Media File" into "web File" ("Hirosi Yosizawa") TDK "data cartidges" ("Goeby Family") ISO: Patch MMW 5/13 D.C. (cohenj@ttc.com) Mixers and Preamps (Was Samson Mixpad) ("Klay Anderson") Bits Digest #931 (Jean-Luc Bruyelle) 3-11-94 ARU/Trey/Page/Drew Emmett/Mark Van jam in Vermont ("Whitley, Joshua") ISO Jazzfest Stuff (AWTNoMore@aol.com) GD 10/1/94 needed (tcnj) life span of cdrs (JPas4308@aol.com) Re: life span of cdrs (Seth Breidbart) Bimbo's 365 in SF (Jason Dietrich) not posting? (Dominic Amalfatano) ISO: Spiritualized or Mogwai DAT/CD (Ohjasper@aol.com) Re: what to upgrade ("Dave Egan") Lenny Kravitz 04/29/99 ("William Tatina") Re: what to upgrade (Seth Breidbart) FA: AKG B-18 phantom power (John M Rossi) help & advice ("David Foley") Re: Bits Digest #931 (Eugene Hu) yahoo auctions (cdr's for sale) (Cass Blackshear) Re: powering a Mackie 1202 (Eugene Hu) d-7 car adapter... ("fritz moriarty") FS: Nak cm 300's & 48khz Zefiro Inbox (Greg Tom Lance) FS: misc. audience recording accesories (Coopers) FS: panasonic RT-RCLP cleaning tapes (Coopers) Re: Normalization and 24 bits........... Digest #932 (GuySonic@aol.com)
From: stagestruck1@webtv.net (Dominic Amalfatano) Subject: Jazz is Dead Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 01:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Help i need jazz is Dead Santa Cruz 5-1-99 and Hollywood 5-2-99 I have pcm,dat +cdr to trade for these 2 shows! I think Jimmy Herring is 1 hell of a guitarist and the whole band is so tight,that i would love to see them and the Gov't Mule on the same bill?! I was blown away by them both nights and im really surprised that not alot of us dat heads have many of there shows. I think they (like the Mule) deserve a whole lot more credit than what they have been getting! Jazz Ain't Dead Herring smokes I need these 2 shows!! I have what you want...and this too i'm sure of. Thanks for the b/w/grovel :-) d
From: "Hirosi Yosizawa" <hwy19@naa.att.ne.jp> Subject: change "Real Media File" into "web File" Reply-To: "Hirosi Yosizawa" <hwy19@naa.att.ne.jp> Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 17:20:55 +0900 I want to change "Real Media File" into "web File". What should I do? Teach, please. _/_/_/_/_/ Hirosi Yosizawa _/_/_/_/_/ (hwy19@naa.att.ne.jp) my DAT trade page http://home.att.ne.jp/red/hwy19/index.html
From: "Goeby Family" <goeby@bigpond.com> Subject: TDK "data cartidges" Date: Mon, 03 May 99 21:05:16 PDT I am only new to the DAT world having recently bought a D3 with the intention of using it for binaural stereo recordings (after I build a decent low noise mic preamp for it). A couple of questions: 1. Somebody has just given me a box of unused TDK DC4-90R "data cartidges". I have tried one in the D3 and it worked OK. Are there any problems in using these? 2. In the Digestifier I don't recall seeing any mention of TDK tapes. I normally buy TDK DA-RXG (readily available in Melbourne, Australia). Are TDKs not favoured for some reason? Graham goeby@bigpond.com
From: cohenj@ttc.com Subject: ISO: Patch MMW 5/13 D.C. Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 09:17:36 -0400 Any help would be appreciated ;>. E-mail privately. Thanks. Jordon cohenj@ttc.com
From: "Klay Anderson" <klay@klay.com> Subject: Mixers and Preamps (Was Samson Mixpad) Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 07:18:30 -0600 From: swsmith@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: Samson MX-4 Opined: <<Shure and a British company called 'Rolls' also make electronic news gathering/location sound for film portable mixers, but the cost is _much_ higher.>> Shure is USA made as is Rolls. In fact, Rolls is made just down the street from me in Salt Lake City UT (home of the Olympic scandal). See http://www.rolls.com/ <<The modifications needed to remote power these are somewhat pricey, but not really difficult.>> Most Rolls mixers are internal powered or are 9-12vdc. No big deal. <<But I'd recommend you save a bit more and get a good mic pre/power supply like the Beyerdynamic MV-100 or the Sonosax instead, especially if all you're planning to do is tape shows.>> For the best 2-channel mixer/preamp see the one I distribute at http://www.klay.com/datasheets/x2mixer.html Only $949 and a heckuva lot more for your money that the Sonosax or Beyer. Regards, Klay Anderson Klay Anderson Audio, Inc. klay@klay.com http://www.klay.com 1.800.FOR.KLAY
From: Jean-Luc Bruyelle <jl_bruyelle@compuserve.com> Subject: Bits Digest #931 Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:37:45 -0400 Leonard Lombardo wrote : >> The polarity is a separate signal that denotes signal zero crossing and might >> be considered a control 'bit' For the benefit of those who might misunderstand you, there is no such thing as a bit that indicates zero crossing. At least not in this context. The polarity indicates whether the signal has a positive of negative voltage. >> Anyway, this may be worth looking into as a 16 bits DAT may be a full 16 bits >> + polarity bit or may just be 15 bits + polarity bit. Anybody know what >> specification is a standard or to expect this changes 'a bit' with models of >> decks? DAT stores 16 bits samples as a signed 16-bit word for each channel. This 16-bit word is under a form called "two's complement" which is by far the most widespread way to express integer signed numbers. In two's complement notation, 0 is written 0000 0000 0000 0000, 1 is written 0000 0000 0000 0001, two is written 000 0000 0000 0010, and so on, until 32767 (2^16 - 1) which is 0111 1111 1111 1111. So far there is no difference whatsoever with a unsigned integer representation. The difference is that 1000 0000 0000 0000 is not 32768 but -32768, and the count increments again until -1 which is written 1111 1111 1111 1111. With 16 bits, the scale ranges from -32768 to 32767. As you can see, any number written in two's complement notation with a leading 1 is negative. But there is not really a polarity bit, since that the representations of N and -N differ by more than just one bit. But, you may wonder, why in the world write negative numbers in this strange way, when it is so easy to just add a leading bit in front of the unsigned absolute value ? Well, because two's notation yields the simplest algorithms to perform calculations on signed numbers. And also because it much easier to make an ADC or a DAC in two's complement - it has the exact same structure as an unsigned one. OTOH calculating the absolute value is cumbersome. And, just for the fun of losing everyone, DAT's 12-bit samples are unsigned. Zero is represented by half the maximum value, which is 2048. This is not really a problem in this particular case since the scale is not linear anyway, so it is not possible to perform operations directly on these samples - they must be converted to 16 bits first. At the risk of repeating myself once again, you can read Ken's Pohlman's "Principles of digital audio" for more information on all this. >> Dual polarity supply >> voltages offer analog signal processing with less inherent nonlinear >> distortions than single supply audio processing like that found in D7/8 DAT >> decks. Though often true with simple circuits, this assertion has no theoretical justification. In fact many single-supply circuits are really "tricked" dual-supply circuits, in which the reference voltage ("zero") is set to 1/2 supply voltage. Distortion is exactly the same since the circuitry is unchanged. The only drawback is that the DC component of the input and output voltages must be blocked by capacitors - there is no such thing as a single-supply DC amplifier. Jean-Luc.
From: "Whitley, Joshua" <jwhitley@uniscribe.com> Subject: 3-11-94 ARU/Trey/Page/Drew Emmett/Mark Van jam in Vermont Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:52:41 -0400 I'm looking for a jam that took place somewhere in Vermont on this date. A buddy of mine got an analog copy off the Well a few years back, and we're now looking for a copy on DAT. I posted looking for this a couple of weeks ago, but was told the wrong date. Any help is greatly appreciated, and thanks for the b/w! -Josh
From: AWTNoMore@aol.com Subject: ISO Jazzfest Stuff Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:19:20 EDT To All... looking for: MMW w/ or w/out Pharoah Sanders The Super Jam from the Howlin Wolf (Ribot, Medeski, Denson, Ray, Moore, etc.) Greyboy All Stars anything of the genre that you think i might like. ;) preferably akg or b&k sources, but i know stealthing is the rule down there, so k140 or schoeps actives would be awesome too. plenty to trade... thanks jeff kollath
From: tcnj <fink@TCNJ.EDU> Subject: GD 10/1/94 needed Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 11:36:39 -0400 Hello Folks, I'd appreciate anyone with a great copy of this 10/1/94 Boston Gardens show getting in touch with me for a trade:-) My trade list can be found at: http://www.angelfire.com/nj/gd/ Be Well, John
From: JPas4308@aol.com Subject: life span of cdrs Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 12:06:51 EDT Howdy Someone recently told me that cdrs, like dats, may have a limited life span. Now Ive been told dats have a life span of anywhere from 9 months (accordingly to Owsley a/k/a/ Bear - see Deadheads Taping Compendium, Vol. 1) to 5 years, and my friend told me cdrs may only have a life span of 5 years. If so, whats the point of converting my 2000 hour dat collection to cdr? Anyone's thoughts or comments on this is, as always, appreciated. E-mail your responses to jpas4308@aol.com Jon Pasternak
From: Seth Breidbart <sethb@panix.com> Subject: Re: life span of cdrs Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 12:25:38 -0400 (EDT) > Someone recently told me that cdrs, like dats, may have a limited > life span. Sure; I'd definitely advise not sitting on them. > Now Ive been told dats have a life span of anywhere from 9 months > (accordingly to Owsley a/k/a/ Bear - see Deadheads Taping Compendium, > Vol. 1) to 5 years, I have 8+-year-old dats that play just fine. > and my friend told me cdrs may only have a life span of 5 years. or, they may not. Seth
From: Jason Dietrich <dietj@vt.edu> Subject: Bimbo's 365 in SF Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 10:58:30 -0700 Fellow tapers: Can anybody let me know about Bimbo's taping policies. John Scofield plays there tomorrow but no one I know has taped there. A friend told me that he's never seen a mic stand there, but he hasn't been there all that often. Any info is appreciated. Thanks. Jay
From: stagestruck1@webtv.net (Dominic Amalfatano) Subject: not posting? Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 11:17:07 -0700 (PDT) i have submitted 2 posts and neither have made it to the list,whats up with that?
From: Ohjasper@aol.com Subject: ISO: Spiritualized or Mogwai DAT/CD Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 15:47:44 EDT my buddy asked me to get some shows of these guys- if they are ou there. if you have some to trade, please let me know. i have tons to trade. thanks, Rich Schaefer
From: "Dave Egan" <degan@telisphere.com> Subject: Re: what to upgrade Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 13:00:15 -0700 Thanks Gary! I agree 100%, and I couldn't have said it better myself! I've gotten tapes in trade with great equipment pedigrees that sound pretty bad. On the other hand, I own a very modest recording setup, but I regularly get raves about the quality of my tapes. What's the difference? I think I have a good ear, and I have some experience on a stage. I've had some training in how to mic a band. I've worked in some of my favorite rooms around town to find a sweet spot and I work really hard to get my mics in it whenever I can. Also I'm not afraid to give my tapes some post-production and EQ when they need it. I think it's funny that given the relative importance of mic technique and post-production that there's so much discussion on the list of hardware and digital esoterica and so little discussion of the rest. I guess maybe it's easier to discuss a piece of equipment ("it's a Schoeps, so it has to be good") as opposed to discussing things that are in the realm of art, such as mic placement. - Dave >From: "Gary Davis" <gdavis@loop.com> >Subject: Re: what to upgrade >Reply-to: gdavis@loop.com >Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 14:48:58 -0700 > <snip> > >Each of these factors (IMHO) makes less difference in the final >sound, by approximately a factor of 10: (not counting faulty >equipment/ total failures, of course). > >LOCATION of mics in room* >EQ / Post production >choice of Mics, arrangement of mic pair >Mic Pre-amp >A>D >cables, deck choice** > >*(also - location of DRUNKS relative to MICS)! >**(Yes, I am claiming that a Sony D8, with radio shack cables, will >make EXACTLY the same recording as a HHb Portadat, with gold- >plated $100/foot cables, if they are both operating correctly). > <snip> > >I defy anyone to hear the difference in blind tests, between two >A>D systems that both result in 44.1K/16 bits, especially with live >recordings. And I'm quite skeptical of any audible difference >beteen 44.1/16 and 96/24 or DSD, when the systems are operating >in their optimal range (ie, proper recording level), and especially, >with live audience OR soundboard recordings. (Maybe - maybe - a >slight difference with close-miced instruments & super expensive >mics, or, classical music with a silent audience in a hall with >excellent accoustics, and again, super-expensive mics and >preamp). > >--Gary
From: "William Tatina" <bmtatina@email.msn.com> Subject: Lenny Kravitz 04/29/99 Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 14:10:04 -0600 Hi folks, Went to see Lenny Kravitz at stupid Fiddlers Green near Denver last night. It was raining out. I missed the opening act and about half of black crowes. Fortunately it stopped raining before Kravitz came on. He went on late, @ 9:15 and stupid Fiddlers has a stupid law that says no music after 10:30. Lenny put on a hot show. He rocked till 10:30, then he said he didn't care and he'd play till they shut off the power. That was about three minutes, right in the middle of a song. Kind of a cool efect on the tape though.. Music just stops, crown moans, then the familiar chant of Fiddlers Sucks begins to fill the air. Anyhoo, DAT traders drop me a line. I mean, if you go for this Kravitz fellow that is. Bill
From: Seth Breidbart <sethb@panix.com> Subject: Re: what to upgrade Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 16:16:29 -0400 (EDT) > I guess maybe it's easier to discuss a piece of equipment ("it's a > Schoeps, so it has to be good") as opposed to discussing things that > are in the realm of art, such as mic placement. OK, you start: describe your favorite places to tape, and your micing techniques at them. I'm sure lots of people will have comments. Seth
From: John M Rossi <rossi@iastate.edu> Subject: FA: AKG B-18 phantom power Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 15:26:41 -0500 I didn't have any offers on the phantom power supplies, so they're going up for auction on ebay. See <http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=99309718> Each of these runs off 2 9V batteries and supplies 18V to phantom power mics. They are capable of supplying 48V with the addition of the A48V. Nice compact package, XLR in, XLR out, test indicator light, and belt clip. These are perfect for powering mics for a D7/D8/D100/M1 or other deck without phantom power capability. Masterpiece A/V sells these for $125 each. Minimum bid is $49.99 for the pair, no reserve price. This is a great chance to pick these up at a substantial discount. -John
From: "David Foley" <david@djfol.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: help & advice Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 21:32:16 +0100 Hi, I'm fairly new to the list and based in the UK - I have a problem with my machine and would appreciate some help. The machine is (was??) an AIWA XD-S260. A fault developed, so that during recording OR playback, the 'caution' warning would light up, the tape stop playing and the only remedy was to turn off all power and start again. This happened regardless of the tape length or brand. Initially the repair shop suggested it needed a new motor at what seemed like a fair price. Now I have a message from them that there is an intermittent mechanical fault and that they are unable to complete the repair. I don't know whether to try again elsewhere (can anyone in the UK please suggest an elsewhere?) or junk the machine. Does anyone have any knowledge of this deck? I have looked in the UK magazine 'Sound on Sound' and have identified a couple of machines within my price range - can anyone suggest a good deck around the £300 - £400 level and a reliable supplier. Many thanks in advance for any help. Best Wishes David Foley
From: Eugene Hu <eugene@superpan.west.enterworks.com> Subject: Re: Bits Digest #931 Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 13:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Normal 16-bit digital audio definitely uses a 16-bit signed number, or 15 bits + a sign bit if you want to think of it that way. Can't think of a reference off the top of my head, but I'm sure some other dat-head will. -Eugene
From: Cass Blackshear <cblackshear@wbltd.com> Subject: yahoo auctions (cdr's for sale) Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 15:53:20 -0500 Hate to be a "snitch" but some joker calling himself gates1969 is selling CDR's on Yahoo's auction site for $25 a pop. If only a few of you would write to Yahoo, perhaps we could stop this crap. I dont want to start a war here, but something needs to be done about this. Am I wrong for thinking this???...Cass
From: Eugene Hu <eugene@superpan.west.enterworks.com> Subject: Re: powering a Mackie 1202 Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 13:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Try contacting Mackie; I'm fairly certain they have info on how to run it on 12VDC. You will need to open it up and do some rewiring, so this mod isn't for those squeamish about doing that. -Eugene
From: "fritz moriarty" <fritzmor@hotmail.com> Subject: d-7 car adapter... Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 22:12:38 GMT could someone direct me to a vendor...thanks -fritz _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
From: Greg Tom Lance <ccryder@ksu.edu> Subject: FS: Nak cm 300's & 48khz Zefiro Inbox Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 17:27:21 -0500 (CDT) Hey all, I have the following gear for sale: 1 pair of Nak cm300's *Purchased from Sonic Sense roughly 2 years ago *Excellent condition *Comes with custom padded case *Cp1 (cardiod) & Cp2 (omni) capsules *3 Sets of 9v batteries *2 Pair windscreens (hard & soft) *Literature 48 khz Zefiro Inbox *Dual Mic pre-amp *20 bit A/D conversion *Mint condition *Used only 2 times *Modified to run @ 48khz *XLR Inputs X 2 *Requires only 1 9v battery for 8hrs use *Has optical & S/PDIF digital outs *Low battery indicator Reason for selling...I just bought a pair of Earthworks SR 71's and GP DMIC-20, and I'm trying to recover some of the cash. Asking $750 for both items. Would prefer to sell together. If interested please contact me. Thanks Greg ccryder@ksu.edu
From: Coopers <cooper@lightlink.com> Subject: FS: misc. audience recording accesories Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 01:08:57 -0400 hi all, i have the following gear i no longer use. 1 pair mic. cables. 25 ft. canare l-4e6s star quad cable, neutrik gold pin xlrs. one cable is orange, the other is green. the cables are shrink-tubed together about every 18" and they have velcro rip-ties at each end. easy to spot and easy to pack away.very good condition. $55 includes priority mail. atlas CO-1B connect-on clamp. enables you to clamp your tbar & mics to another stand. saves space in a tangled taping area. $12 includes priority mail. atlas SO-1B quick-connect/disconnect 5/8"-27 threaded mic. connector. handy for stealthing w/ a pr. of full size mics. eliminates fumbing with a stand in the dark. $10 includes priority mail 1 hardshell equipment case. scratched, no stickers. exterior measures about 20"x 15"x 6" was originally a electronics tech. toolkit but is also good if you want to carry gear around. includes all original dividers & some foam. it is of the heavy-duty variety. $60 includes ups ground. or the whole pile for $130 shipped ups ground. thanks for the bandwidth thom
From: Coopers <cooper@lightlink.com> Subject: FS: panasonic RT-RCLP cleaning tapes Date: Mon, 03 May 1999 18:57:12 -0400 howdy, i have 4 shrinkwrapped panasonic RT-RCLP cleaning tapes available for sale. $7 each. includes priority mail. $25 takes all 4. thanks for the bw thom
From: GuySonic@aol.com Subject: Re: Normalization and 24 bits........... Digest #932 Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 18:54:54 EDT In a message dated 5/2/99 7:11:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, DAT-Heads-Request@fedney.near.net writes: << ------------------------------ From: "Gary Nelson" <gnelson@zynrgy.com> Subject: Normalization and 24 bits Date: Sun, 2 May 1999 10:53:32 +0600 =====clip'd=====> The digital mixer and effects processors want to have 32-bit fixed point arithmetic paths OR floating point paths to avoid roundoff errors and resultant loss of snr and recreation of the quantizing noise we got around at the input. If the DAT levels are too low at recording time, we exchanged the risk of ADC overload for reduction in dynamic range and reduction in signal to quantizing noice ratio. You cannot fix that by simply right-shifting all the samples (6 dB per bit). You must dither with pseudorandom noise of the correct amplitude and distribution to mask the rasty sound of the quantizing noise that will also be amplified as you increase the digital amplitide of the samples that were unfortuanatey made with too few bits in the first place. A 24-bit ADC would not have improved the snr of the preamp or the mike, but would have avoided this problem of the digital path being the limiting factor on overall signal quality. Dr. Gary Nelson QuantaSonics Inc 20708 North Deerpath Road Barrington, IL 60010-3787 >> The more practical benefits of an increased bit depth was made more clear to me by Gary's detailed descriptions. Bit depth and how to best use knowledge of it for setting levels is an important aspect of the Analog to Digital process and should be of prime interest to those recording dynamic music/sounds on DAT & MD decks. Also, it's best to remember that there's a whole system of mic amplifier, Line amp, A/D type, and VU accuracy that all must be considered to know where to set those recording levels for best effect. Pushing VU peaks may be THE best tact with one particular DAT system, while conservative VU average levels may produce THE audibly superior results an a different DAT system. DAT is a multi-domain processing system that is slightly better than the weakest circuit block's performance, but is limited by it nonetheless. Knowing where to set levels to get overall quality maximized with any particular system will also vary a bit with the type of music or sound recorded. For example: Conservative level settings may work best with continuous music rock style while for classical or acoustic music having VU peaks maximized may produce the audibly superior results with using the very same DAT system. What I found on some of the portable recorders is mic/Line amplifiers being run nearly into the rails to drive the A/D convertor to the 0 dB VU level. No margin is OK for digital without effects until the very end, but for analog processing, generous x2 supply voltage margins over audio signal maximums is greatly needed and gives very audible quality benefits. Without those voltage supply margins, the weakest processor is likely the analog audio processing stages that need to not be 'pushed' to give best overall recording quality. The hard decision would then be how much digital performance can be sacrificed to gain acceptable analog performance. This would seem vary with the type of material recorded. And its clear than more bit depth and/or x2 analog supply voltage margins are needed for at least the pocket sized 'self contained' recorders, if not also for some of the larger 'Pro' style portables. All Chant: .............. more bits, ................ more voltage ............. more quality at any recording level. With these improvements made, the only other wish is for batteries to still allow 3-4 hours of operation while powering all these current eating improvements! Regards in Sound & Music Recording, Leonard Lombardo ======================================== Sonic Studios(tm)..."Making Audio History With DSM(tm) Microphones" "Sonic Studios Stealth Microphones(tm) . . . Since 1986: The First Choice of Sound Recording Professionals" Specializing in Patented HRTF Surround Stereo Microphone Technology for Speech, Film, Music, Sound Design/EFX TEL: 541-459-8839 /\ FAX: 541-459-8842 /\ USA Free: 1-888-875-4976 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Informative WEB SITE: http:// <A HREF="http://www.sonicstudios.com">WWW.SONICSTUDIOS.COM </A> A better wish... "A bit of knowledge coupled to a great deal of wisdom"
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