DAT-Heads Digest #938
Contents:
Painting your pole ("Joe Reed")
Folks who may have taped the Disco Biscuits... ("Max (Bret Maxwell Dawson)")
FS: maxell cleaning tapes (GOLDBERG)
Washing DC taper Needed (Andrew Kidd)
Jewel tapers (Azusa Mihara)
extra tapes (Don Chase)
Re: M1 SCMS-problem (Seth Breidbart)
Tom Petty braodcast/Springsteen Zurich update (Karsten Küpfer)
Re: Damn bit argument ("Jonathan Levinson")
Re: Damn bit argument II (Alexander W. Chin)
ISO: Neil Young April shows (THB)
Re: MerleFest Grovel (lcooper@na.ko.com)
What mic looks like this? (Rick Gebhard)
tour locations and dates for Shakti...should be a GREAT tree! (Theo Forbath)
From: "Joe Reed" <energybuild@hotmail.com>
Subject: Painting your pole
Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 17:45:55 PDT
Hi
I was wondering if anyone here has ever painted thier mic pole w/ some sort
of day-glo paint to keep folks from tripping over the bottom of the damn
thing. It seems that no matter where you set up, people always need to
occupy that 3 square feet of floor space where you put your stuff! So I was
trying to think of ways to try to keep people from knockin into my crap. One
idea was paint, the other was maybe a light on the bottom. Anyone do
anything like this or have other ideas?
later
joe
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From: "Max (Bret Maxwell Dawson)" <Max_Dawson@brown.edu>
Subject: Folks who may have taped the Disco Biscuits...
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 21:07:58 -0500
Hi there. Name's Max and I run the PLAN C, the Disco Biscuits Digital
Archiving Project. For those of you who aren't familiar with this band's
music, its a strange mix of trance-techno-jazz-zappa-prog rock-groove rock
and a million other things. I strongly recommend that anyone interested in
the future of live music take the time to check out the Biscuits when they
come to your town or state. Don't let the name throw you off-these guys
are serious, and their music has been know to induce some serious dancing.
But don't take my word for it! Ask Benjy Eisen, Andy Gadiel, Dean Budnick,
or any of the editors at Jambands.com, for that matter. The Biscuits are
turning heads, and yours might be next!
Anyways, the purpose of this post is to encourage all of you who tape to
run a DAT when the Biscuits come to your town. Shows usually fit on 2x60
(be careful-these guys have been know to go over 3 hours regularly! Last
weekend's Wetlands shows both ran about 4 hours!). The band and their
soundman, Jon Lesser, are very accomodating to tapers as they do not
possess a DAT deck of their own and thus rely on the efforts of fans and
curious tapers like yourselves to record their performances. Approach
Jon-call him Jonald, or any of the other band members and tell them Bret
Maxwell sent you! They're sure to take real good care of you then! Tour
dates are listed at http://www.discobiscuits.com. For a sampling of
setlists, a decent FAQ, or just some pictures, reviews, or soundbytes,
check out http://www.newmarketproductions.com/biscuits.
Another matter is that we've had a bit of trouble locating a number of
shows from the Biscuit's last tour. If you or anyone you know taped the
following shows, PLEASE drop me a line. Out of 49 shows from last tour,
we've been able to track down all but these six. Any leads on these tapes
will be greatly appreciated and will most definitely be rewarded...
1.28.99 Orbit's, Frederickstown, VA
2.1.99 Bessie's, Wilmington, NC
2.2.99 Peasants, Greenville, NC
2.24.99 Winston's, San Diego, CA
2.26.99 Last Day Salloon, San Francisco, CA
2.27.99 Harrington's, Chico, CA
Thanks a lot!
Sincerely,
Max Dawson
Coordinator,
PLAN C
The Disco Biscuits Digital Archiving Program
Box 0474 Brown University
Providence, RI
02912-0474
From: GOLDBERG <goldberg@comm-plus.net>
Subject: FS: maxell cleaning tapes
Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 21:20:44 -0400
hey there,
i just got a deal on some maxell HS-4/CL cleaning tapes through one of
my distrubutors at work. most places sell these for between $9-$12... i
am going to pass them along to people in the NG for what i paid for them
$6.50 (plus 55¢ per tape shipping)
let me know how many you want-
-goldberg
http://www.slipknot.net
From: Andrew Kidd <akidd@home.com>
Subject: Washing DC taper Needed
Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 21:51:54 -0400
Hey everyone - my name is Laurie Burdett. I'm a modified-limited part of
the online Phish community (forget I said that if that damages my
credibility - hahaha), I live in DC, and I have a HUMONGOUS favor to ask
any taper type folks in the DC area.
My friends' band, Avant Gaardvark is playing their last gig on Friday,
May 7th, at a place called the Grog & Tankard in Upper Georgetown. I
believe it is only one set, probably about 2 hours, starting around
11:30 p.m. As their "number one fan and small-time promoter", I am
requesting the assitance of a taper to tape this last gig. You will
need mikes, as the soundboard is way way WAY too vocal heavy (we've
tried this once before, can you tell?). Cash will be paid, not a LOT
mind you (probably anywhere between 40-50 clams), but this is very
important to the group and to me. IF ANYONE can help me out, could you
please contact me ASAP at:
laurie@phunky.com
with the subject heading "DC Taper"
I would be your friend forever, probably buy you a few beers, and help
you in any other way you needed to tape this gig.
Thanks all - you would be doing a great service.
Peace and hugs and all that hippie shit,
Laurie B.
(Note: forwarding this for a friend, if you could help her i would be
happy to hook you up with phil and phriends discs or anything else from
my list (not only phish+dead) reply to her or me, i will forward it to
her)
take care,
Andrew Kidd
--
akidd@home.com
LordSothBR on AOL Instant Messenger
~Beyond the reach of human range
A drop of Hell, a touch of Strange~
-King "The Gunslinger"
From: Sugar-Magnolia@webtv.net (Azusa Mihara)
Subject: Jewel tapers
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 22:08:10 -0400 (EDT)
Please tape STEVE POLTZ'S set. He is the opening act, (as well as being
a member of Jewel's band.) See www.jeweljk.com for the Europe and US
dates. I would love to set-up a trade for a copy of any of Steve's
short, but bound to be great, sets.
Thank you, and enjoy!
Eric
From: Don Chase <chase65@yahoo.com>
Subject: extra tapes
Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 19:46:42 -0700 (PDT)
I don't have cloning capabilites, but i'm looking to
get rid of the following masters that i got in an all
or nothing deal. i'd like to trade for the Dead, Zep,
Jimi, Neil Young, Pink Floyd or what have you. I'll
also take blanks if you don't have anything, but as a
newbie i'd like to get some music for them.
Ray Brown 12/09/96 early
Chief broom 10/23/97 I+II (2) 60m
Leftover Salmon- unknown
David Grisman 9/12/97 I+II (2) 60m
David Grisman 9/13/97 II
Grateful Dead 9/10/91 I+II (2) 60m
Medeski, Martin and Wood 4/23/96 all
Pat Methany 6/23/90
moe. 9/11/97 I
moe. 12/32/96 all
Sticky Fingers/ Cliff Morrison 7/20/97
Zero unknown date, Coach House, San Juan Capistrano
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From: Seth Breidbart <sethb@panix.com>
Subject: Re: M1 SCMS-problem
Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 00:07:08 -0400 (EDT)
> I purchased the PCM M1 some months ago, and I’m wondering if anyone out
> there knows if it possible to get rid of the SCMS-protection on tapes with
> copy code ID6 10.
You can't change what's written on the tape.
> The manual tells me how to adjust the copy code when recording (digital
> input). But not digital output. Isn’t possible to make clones with the M1,
> if the tape you are going to clone already has got ID6 10?
Yes: copy _to_ the M1. With the exception of some very old obsolete
decks (from before scms), all decks output (in S/PDIF) the scms code
that appears on the tape. Pro decks ignore the scms flag on input.
(I consider decks like the Panasonic sv-3700 to be semi-pro.)
Seth
From: Karsten Küpfer <BlackCrowes@gmx.net>
Subject: Tom Petty braodcast/Springsteen Zurich update
Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 06:57:34 +0200 (MEST)
Hi everybody,
thanks for the really overwhelming response to my offer. Tried to contact
as many people as possible over the last few days (not easy when you're
without real internet access).
I received about 30-35 enquiries for Tom Petty and about 15 for my
Springsteen tape. Please understand that cloning 50 tapes will take a little time.
Thanks also for the people that offered some help in spreading the music.
I will gladly accept your offers and forward DATheads to you which weren't
able to offer something that caught my eye (means no music I am looking for).
Thanks again for your patience
Greetings from rainy Munich, Germany
Karsten
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From: "Jonathan Levinson" <sociallove@iname.com>
Subject: Re: Damn bit argument
Reply-to: sociallove@iname.com
Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 03:22:10 -0400
<<
In reality, normalizing the signal, to put it bluntly, makes it worse. (I
was about to say farks it up, but we don't swear here).
Try taking the picture of the 1 cm graph paper with 10 squares,
then fit it into one with 13 squares at 0.77 cm size. Yeah... take
the already jagged picture, and redraw it. See if it gets even better.
>>
There is another very simple, but serious problem that skipping
normalization can cause. The amp can not get the sound loud
enough. I run a 50x4 watt amp in my car, and just last week I put
in a cdr ( that I later found out had peaks at -11db ) and at full
volume it was not nearly loud enough. The ever-so-slight loss that
may come about when you normalize really seems worth it for all
those who won't be playing the music back on a $30,000 setup.
And besides, who wants to have to constantly mess with the
volume control ...
From: alex@gerulf.acsu.unsw.edu.au (Alexander W. Chin)
Subject: Re: Damn bit argument II
Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 18:37:28 +1000
>From: pkmin@rsc.rockwell.com
>Subject: Re: Damn bit argument
>Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 19:17:12 -0700
<snip>
>Try taking the picture of the 1 cm graph paper with 10 squares, then fit it
>into one with 13 squares at 0.77 cm size. Yeah... take the already jagged
>picture, and redraw it. See if it gets even better."
>
>The above example does not appear to be a correct representation of what
>(digi)normalization does since the ampitude afterwords is the same as
>before. A
>more appropriate example would be.
>1. Your (simplified)dat recorder is capable of resolving 20, 1 cm blocks.
>2. You have a recording whose highest peak only fills up 10, 1 cm blocks.
>
>Do you .....
<snip>
*sigh*....
Yea, I made a mistake. Was the hunger talking. You are entirely correct
here. The reason I gave the odd example of 13 squares, was because in
reality, you don't amplify by the exact figure (in your case, by 2). You
always end up with odd and strange numbers.
At least Peter was listening. Thanks for the correction.
>From: Seth Breidbart <sethb@panix.com>
>Subject: Re: Damn bit argument
>Date: Wed, 5 May 1999 17:29:22 -0400 (EDT)
<snip>
>> I don't know how "accurate" diginormalization processes are(IE are they
>>a true
>> "scale up" or are other artifacts now entering the equation), but I would
>> think/hope in this day and age that they are pretty close to dead on.
>
>If the normalization involves multiplying by an integer, then there's
>no problem; everything is amplified equally (including the
>quantization noise). However, that's rare; normally, it involves
>multiplying by some random-looking number. As a result, the products
>cannot be exactly represented in 16 bits, and there will be some
>further roundoff (quantization) noise added. (NB: The new noise will
>be around 96dB down from the now full-level signal.) The relative
>dissonance caused by this noise versus that caused by turning your
>amplifier (preamp, actually) to a higher amplification level depends
>on the quality of your analog equipment, and is beyond the scope of
>this mailing list. If you're doing any digital processing, such as
>equalization, use 24 or 32 bits for that; then normalizing afterwards
>won't hurt any (in this case, it will help).
>
>Seth
Seth is correct here. There are people in the know, and they should speak
up more often.
(I've just had dinner, and have gas escaping from both mouths now)... so
I'll make this quick....
In actual fact, the process of normalising, or any gain change is quite
complex. You can't just take every sample, multiply it by 1.232221 and
stuff it back. It'll work, and I'm sure crap programs do that. It just
won't sound great.
To do it properly though, you need to have high accuracy (very long length
word). You multiply every sample by that number, 1.232221 or whatever it
is. The result, is usually a very long number... and you need to represent
that by many bits.
The result till now, it pretty accurate, providing you have enough bits to
store it (I'd say 32 bits is sufficient). If the result of the
multiplication goes on forever.. ie... say 31 * 4/3 = 124/3 =
41.333333333...... then you have a problem. There is no way to represent
this quantity accurately.
Best you can do, is preserve as many decimal places as possible for now.
The process is already lossy here.
Now given this new stream of data you have, you want to convert it back to
the base resolution = 16 bits. You started with 16 bits, you want 16 bits
back.
So in the example of our number above, there are a few ways to do it. You
could just chop off the decimal places (since decimal places don't exist in
Digital Audio samples). You could round it up... ie 41.3333 = 41, 41.522212
= 42. That's slightly better. Not much, but slightly.
Either way you look at it, the sample is now broken.
The proper way to do it, is to add dither and noise shaping. The concept of
noise shaping is complex, but the long and short of it, is you add some
distortion to the signal. This makes it closer to the true value. This
distortion you add, it is generally some form of noise, either white, pink
or whatever.
Looking back at our graph paper example, you could sort of visualise it as
instead of drawing by following the grid lines perfectly, you fudge by
adding jiggles to your drawing. Really. You jiggle and wiggle your tracing
of the sine wave. It ends up looking less square, and a little more curvy
if you jiggle well.
Though not an entirely accurate anolagy, noise shaping is basically that.
You add some form of noise (the jiggles) to mask out your quantisation
errors.
The problem with this is - you distort the signal. Done properly, it does good.
The bad thing with noise shaping is... once done, can't be undone.
SBM is an example of noise shaping.
A/D (20 bits) -> SBM (add noise, then truncate to 16 bits) -> 16 bit shaped.
This 16 bit output from the SBM, it is already shaped. You cannot edit it
without destroying the signal anymore.
If you try to change the gain, or perform EQ or whatever the SBM'd signal,
you'll totally wreck it. Ask somebody who knows. You always work oh high
bit samples, and the dither and noise shaping is the final last
unreversable stage.
I'm inclined to believe that turning up the volume on your amp, distorts
the signal less than fooling around in the digital domain. After all, the
performance of modern day equipment is very good (analog equipment).
We'll let somebody else say something now.
Cheers
Alex
=========================================================================
My neighbor has a circular driveway. He can't get out.
Alexander W. Chin (alex@gerulf.acsu.unsw.edu.au)
From: THB <tbugsett@online.no>
Subject: ISO: Neil Young April shows
Reply-To: tbugsett@online.no
Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 15:09:42 +0200
Still looking for most of the April shows from Neil's ongoing tour. Have
the first two shows from this leg and most of the March shows + tons of
older Neil DAT's for trade. Particulary looking for Akron 4/27 and
Chicago 4/28, 4/30 and 5/1.
- Thor
From: lcooper@na.ko.com
Subject: Re: MerleFest Grovel
Date: Thu, 6 May 1999 10:00:40 -0400
Hey Now Rob! I've got about 18 hours of Merlefest, mostly Jorma and Peter.
Some of the places that we had to tape from were not good sounding, but the set
was recorded (Walker Center). The rigs I patched into were always of fairly
high quality, mostly Shoeps into and Oade. If your willing to tree them I'll
B&P to you and then anybody else who wants them can join the tree. But, no need
to grovel.
Thanks, peace and stay in touch.
From: "Rob Linxweiler" <roblinx@enteract.com>
Subject: MerleFest Grovel
Reply-To: roblinx@enteract.com
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 19:39:05 -0500
Hello... or should I say Howdy?
Freshly abuzz with the vibe of my second MerleFest. Looking for any and all
recordings. If you've got 'em, but aren't into starting a tree, perhaps I can
help. I have plenty to trade, and would be willing to help organize a tree to
get copies of this show. Russ Perry? Are you out there?
I'll send my list if you're interested in a trade, but please don't sit on these
wonderful tapes!
Thanks,
Rob Linxweiler
From: Rick Gebhard <rgebhard@remc7.k12.mi.us>
Subject: What mic looks like this?
Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 09:41:50
One body, two capsules, in kind of a open U shape. About 5-6 inches wide,
silver. Any ideas? Also, does anybody know of a good resource for pics of
mics? I've still not too good about identifying mics by sight and would
like to be able to look a a stand and know what's runnin'.
Thanks,
Rick
From: Theo Forbath <forbath@ncri.com>
Subject: tour locations and dates for Shakti...should be a GREAT tree!
Date: Thu, 06 May 1999 10:59:52 -0400
hi,
Jagjit sent me the URL for the tour dates...it is only 7 shows so it would
be great to get them all! as i said in my last post, if it is the ticket
price that is stopping you from going and taping, please get in touch!
these should be some really inspiring shows:
John McLaughlin
Tour Dates
06/26/99 Boston MA Berklee Performance Ctr.
06/27/99 New York NY Symphony Space
06/29/99 Detroit MI Detroit Orchestra Hall
06/30/99 St. Louis MO Sheldon Concert Hall
07/01/99 New Haven CT International Festival
07/02/99 Glenside PA Keswick Theatre
07/04/99 Montreal QC Jazz Festival
Shakti maybe the best blend of jazz and indian music you will ever see!
thanks, t.
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