DAT-Heads Digest #982
Contents:
R300 Problem (tcp)
120 m Tape use in DAP1 & Sony PCM R-500 ("Mike Gallimore")
Re: Etymotic Earphones ("Gary Davis")
Ventura Theatre taping (long) (Jeff Bowen)
Rollins Band tour ("Rich880")
ISO: Computer Based CD-R Setups (Taylor)
Wanted: Rolling Stones DATs (Leo Cailleteau)
Pre-amps AD1000 (Duncan Oldham)
ISO: HOLE CD-R and/or DAT (EZ)
Gong 30th anniv show at the Knitting factory (fus)
Re: Apogee envy ("Craig Hillwig")
ZA2 w/ Windows 2000 ("Brian Krahmer")
Re: Apogee envy (no more!) (Kevin Lally)
FS: Sony TCD-D7 (Jacob)
From: tcp <tcp@optonline.net>
Subject: R300 Problem
Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 15:18:07 -0400
Hi all,
Thought someone here could shed a lil insight, my R300 just decided
it doesnt wanna give up a blank, it opens but the tape appears to be
jammed, or the tape caught? what is my best option for solving this
problem? is this a send in for service problem? it's the first issue I
have had with this deck. any insight is greatly appreciated.
peace,
Todd
From: "Mike Gallimore" <gallobass@mindspring.com>
Subject: 120 m Tape use in DAP1 & Sony PCM R-500
Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 16:46:01 -0400
Is it OK to use the 120 m tapes in these machines? I've heard no on several
machines but I'm not sure about these?
Mike
From: "Gary Davis" <gdavis@loop.com>
Subject: Re: Etymotic Earphones
Reply-to: gdavis@loop.com
Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 14:05:51 -0700
> Has anyone on this list tried this piece of equipment made be Etymotic
> Research?
>
> I tried to master a matrix recording last weekend and could not hear
> anything thru my headphones. The ER-4's block out virtually all external
> background noise and cost over $200. Too bad that like underwear, they are
> non returnable.
The Etymotic Earphones (actually $299) are a fantastic tool for
monitoring sound at the venue, but they must be used properly to
get results.
If you "couldn't hear anything" from the Etymotics, more than
likely, you didn't have enough power from your headphone output.
It is also possible you didn't have the Etymotics fully inserted in
your ear canals (which is necessary both to block out external
sound *and* to achieve proper bass response).
The Etymotics do take a bit more power than "walkman" phones,
and just as important, you are trying to hear them over room sound
in a 95-105dB range. The headphone output on a D8 or camcorder
is just barely hot enough (when competing with room sound) to let
you hear if the channel is working at all. Some other devices, such
as small Mackie mixers, have enough *gain* (amplification/volume)
to hear the sound, but not enough *power*. The result: you can get
the volume but the sound will seem distorted. This may cause you
to believe that something else in your audio chain is distorting,
causing you to turn down the level at some point, which is *not* the
source of the problem.
The solution: in almost any live application, you will need a
headphone amp. I've been using the high-gain version of the
Headroom Supreme amp (call 1-800-828-8184 or go to
www.headphone.com; they also sell the Etymotics). This amp
works well and comes in a great carrying case (holds the D8, amp,
and earphones), but it's rather expensive ($449 + $129 for the
case). A much less expensive solution is to build your own amp
from $1.19 LM386 chips from Radio Shack. (I wrote an article on
this for EQ Magazine and will probably post it to Dat-Heads at
some point). I'm not sure if this $20 amp really stands up to the
$449 Headroom amp, but as Headroom has asked for their amp
back :-( , I'll probably find out soon!
Finally, you can *significantly* improve the isolation of the
Etymotics by adding large, over-the-ear hearing protectors (such as
gun enthusiasts and helicopter passengers use). I've found a
model called Thunder 29 Ear Muffs from Howard Leight Industries
($29) provide excellent isolation, decent comfort, and they fold up
making them easier to carry to the venue. (They can be purchased
at a gun shop or sporting-goods store).
Since the "seal" is very important, it's important to get all your hair
out of the way. First, I push all my hair behind my ears to insert
the Etymotics. Sometimes I put them in upside down, so the
piece that sticks out points up instead of down, for greater comfort
when putting on the hearing protectors. Then, I brush all the hair
out of the way again, and put the Thunder 29's over my ears, being
very careful to get the best seal.
Etymotic also suggests having custom ear pieces molded for your
ears, but I haven't tried this, since the supplied ear pieces were
quite comfortable for me.
The combination of Etymotic Earphones, Thunder 29 Ear Muffs,
and a good headphone amp, can give you a 90-95% advantage over
room sound when monitoring at the concert.
>
> Also if someone has any experience with matrix recordings, I would love to
> get some tips. I tried two times in different size clubs. I got some echo
> in the larger club and some very good results in the smaller club. What is
> the magic distance from the stage that a matrix will still work without a
> delay device?
The echo is a real problem, depending on how you mix the two
sources (soundboard & mic). By far the best solution is to put the
mics right up front (at the foot of the stage). You may be able to
use the club's "mic snake" to take your mic signals back to the
soundboard area. (Either use the soundboard's pre-amps, or just
unplug the XLRs from the back of the club's soundboard, and into
yours). Another partial solution is to mix the levels quite different;
ie, a 30/70 or 70/30 mix. Anything like 50/50 will definitely make
the echo noticeable or even ruinous to your recording. How far is
too far? When making my "Soundboard+Plus" recordings, where I
put the room sound on one side (left) and the mic on the other
(right), or a partial mix of the above, the echo is very noticeable
when the mic is as little as 10 feet from the stage. But this is a
worse-case scenario (letting your brain judge the time delay
between your two ears), so a stereo+stereo mix could easily get
away with a 10-foot distance. Anything much farther than that is
still going to need a delay if you don't want an echo. Keep in mind
it's the soundboard sound that needs to be delayed! Setting the
delay correctly at the venue would be virtually impossible unless
you start before the soundcheck and do a lot of careful testing.
The easiest way to judge, to set the delay, is to listen to one
source in each ear, even if you don't plan to mix it this way for the
final result. Given the difficulty in setting the delay at the venue
(not to mention the extra gear), I've always used the 2-channel DAT
to record a mono soundboard feed and mono mic (you can always
make the mic channel into fake stereo later). Combining the
soundboard output in stereo with a stereo mic pair near the back of
the room really won't give you much stereo (since the soundboard
output usually has very little stereo), but of course this is what you
think you want to achieve. Four-channel recorder, anyone?
>
> Any suggestions on a good 4 channel mixer with (or without) delay?
>
If there was an analog mixer with effects, it would probably have
"reverb," not "delay," which wouldn't help you at all. Perhaps a
digital mixer could do it. I use an Alesis Midiverb for delay (around
$350), but it's a bit difficult to adjust. The Alesis Quadraverb is a
better choice, but costs more.
Happy Mixing!
-Gary
From: Jeff Bowen <jbowen@slonet.org>
Subject: Ventura Theatre taping (long)
Reply-To: Jeff Bowen <jbowen@slonet.org>
Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 14:07:53 -0700 (PDT)
>
> "I can't say about Greg, but I can say that the Ventura Concert Theatre
> doesn't allow taping of any kind."
>
> Over 2 years ago that was the case (it was a drag to have to sneak stuff in to
> tape a group that was pro taping such as rusted root 11-20-96). However in the
> past 2+ years I can't remember a single show where open audience taping wasn't
> allowed if the band was cool with it (somewhere the management changed for the
> better). The Ventura theater has about as mellow a taping scene as it gets(it
> used to be the exact opposite, no taping period no matter what). Greg Allman
> allows audience taping so the show this Thurs should not be a problem. Thank
> you, Ardas at the Ventura Theater! Pete
>
Just back from Greg Allmans and friends at the Ventura Theatre.
The theatre people gave me the usual run around even though I had a print
out of the ABB web page which stated the taping policy. I finally went
directly to Robert, the manager, who is a friend of a friend of mine.
He was cool and said he didn't mind but someone would have to personally
ask the road manager. I relayed this to one of the security people outside
who came back 5 minutes later with a long face and said, 'sorry dude. You
can't'. I told him that Robert had already given his OK but they would
have to talk with the road manager. This guy then said he would go back
and ask again. I figured I was just going to get the runa around so I
walked down the street and found an open side door near back stage. The
road manager was outside talking to this same security kid. I walked up
and smiled and the security guy looked at me then looked at the road
manager and said, 'oh yeah. One other thing. You can answer this guy's
question. You Don't allow recording do you?' He asked expecting the answer
no. 'Sure. Audio, no video' was his response.
I thanked him and went to go in. The door people were a little alarmed at
my mic stand and wanted to know what it was. All the tables on the floor
were reserved for dinner except for 4 seats on the center table, second
tier. Myself and another taper sat down. He had already paid for dinner, I
hadn't. Immediately the floor manager was all over me telling me I
couldn't set up here because it was for dinner people only, blah blah
blah. So I had to pay the $20 on the spot for dinner but got to keep my
killer FOB center location. Right where I wanted to be anyway.
Moral to the story is it helped having the printout of the web page but it
also helped more being able to go right to the manager. But still I had to
work to get my gear inside because I basically had to ask the band's road
manager myself. I couldn't believe I was the only stand in the room!
I was expecting more tapers in Ventura. Especially since it was so close
to LA.
Pete, Ardas isn't there anymore.
Jeff
From: "Rich880" <rich880@tmlp.com>
Subject: Rollins Band tour
Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 17:37:34 -0400
If anyone will be taping any of these, please email me to setup a trade.
Rollins Band Tour Dates:
7/2 Main Event - Toledo Ohio
7/3 Bogart's Front Room - Cincinnati Ohio
7/4 The Bay - Chattanooga TN
7/6 Gyrations - Huntington West Virgina
7/7 Toy Tiger - Louisville KY
7/9 Blue Note - Columbia MO
7/10 The Juke Joint - Springfield MO
7/11 Bottleneck - Lawrence KS
7/13 Double Door - Chicago IL
7/16 Alvalade Stadium - Lison Portugal (with Metallica and Monster Magnet)
7/18 ILOSAARIRICK, Joensuu Finland
Thanks for the B/W
Rich
From: Taylor <taylorc@mindspring.com>
Subject: ISO: Computer Based CD-R Setups
Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:18:36 -0500
I need a good soundcard, a good program to make the CD-R's with, and a
speedy CD-R drive. Please email if you have a decent amount of knowledge
about computer based CD-R setups and if you are aware of a HQ setup for a
reasonable price.
-TaylorC
From: Leo Cailleteau <dadson@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Wanted: Rolling Stones DATs
Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 19:44:56 -0500
Hello everyone :)
I'm looking for anything Stones. Especially interested in No Security
shows and any of the shows their about to do in Europe in May/June.
Lots to trade, email for list. Happy to trade on DAT or CDR.
Thanks for the space,
Leo
From: Duncan Oldham <duncan@epix.net>
Subject: Pre-amps AD1000
Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 21:03:26 -0600
I just got done with the pre-amp search,and it was quite the ride ,but
from what i gathered the v-2 is ok but not the best out there" i ,d put
a Oade pre up against a v2
any day of the week,to me the v-2 is way over price" It should be in the
950-1000
dollar range" sonasax or a beyer aren,t bad for the money{used}Klay has
a pre with some great features for under 1000 bucks,still it its up to
the person in need " just because everyone in the tapers pit has a lunny
v2 doesn,t mean its the best"I have made some great shows with the v-2
,but i ,ve had some great shows made with
the beyer also,and theres not a 900 dollar differance in sound" Food for
thought! i see alot of young people with the Schoeps >v2>da-p1 or what
ever,to me if i was shelling out the cash for Schoeps i,d buy the
pre-amp that was made to run them?
not the v2" Some of the best shows that i,ve heard are made with the
apogee ad1000 which they DO NOT make anymore and are hard to find" to
have a AD,plus a nice pre-amp all in one unit ,you just can,t beat
it"Listen to one of the Phil +Friends shows i think the last night,{not
sure}but that was done with ad1000,plus by the end of the night you fry
a burger on top of your ad1000:}These are just my thoughts nothing
against the venders that are selling the v2,s But they are over
priced",,,,,,,,,Thanks for the space,,,,,,,,,Dunc
From: EZ <eric@ptd.net>
Subject: ISO: HOLE CD-R and/or DAT
Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 21:04:06 -0400
Hello,
I'm looking for just about any live Hole DATs or CD-R.
I can accept DAT or CD-R, but can only trade in CD-R
format. Send me your lists if you're interested in
trading. I only have 1 Hole show (Unplugged 2/14/95),
but have many Nirvana, and have Foo Fighters, Smashing
Pumpkins, and Veruca Salt.
Thanks,
-Eric
From: fus <fus@erols.com>
Subject: Gong 30th anniv show at the Knitting factory
Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 22:34:39 -0400
I recorded the 2nd set from the floor, and while my tape sounds really
good, the talkative crowd is a little too much at times. so if anyone on
this list was among the tapers in the balcony, I'd love to get an
upgrade copy of the 2nd set. a copy of the first set would be nice too,
esp. if it was considerably different.
EThan
http://www.erols.com/fus/tapelist.html
From: "Craig Hillwig" <chill@teamschoeps.org>
Subject: Re: Apogee envy
Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 21:35:55 -0400
Scott Olsen <scott_olsen@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Actually this is really wrong ... first off, the pre-amps in the
> Lunatec are WAY better than the ones in to AD1000, so getting rid of it
> is actually a downgrade in your system.
In the end, it's all a matter of taste. But most of the folks I know who
bought Apogee AD-1000s either shelved or sold their external mic pre-amps
(Lunatecs, Sonosax, and Oade) because, even it they sounded better -- and
that's a big if -- the improvement, if any, was so small that it didn't
justify the extra piece of analog equipment in the signal chain. So, while
the Lunatec may be "way better", it sure doesn't seem to make too much
positive difference in the taping of rock concerts. That's just my
experience though.
--
Craig
From: "Brian Krahmer" <brian@krahmer.com>
Subject: ZA2 w/ Windows 2000
Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 19:45:34 -0600
Hey All,
For those who are interested, I got my Zefiro ZA2 card to install under
Windoze 2000 Pro Beta 3 today. I have contacted Greg to see if he'll update
the installation to be compatible w/ w2k, as you have to hack the install
file to install it successfully. If you want details on that, let me know.
Even though I'm a classic windoze hater, I must admit that they've done a
great job with w2k. It's got the excellent kernel and memory protection of
NT with PnP, USB, IEEE-1394, DVD support and (cheesy) interface of 98.
We'll see how it goes over the long run...
brian
--
Brian Krahmer - brian@krahmer.com - http://www.krahmer.com
Expert 4.0 - Intelligent Network Security - http://www.L-3Security.com
From: Kevin Lally <lally@mail.worldlynx.net>
Subject: Re: Apogee envy (no more!)
Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 21:52:16 -0400
>From: Scott Olsen <scott_olsen@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Apogee envy
>Reply-To: so16@prism.gatech.edu
>Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 06:54:00 -0700 (PDT)
>
>>From: "Jeff Frank" <jeff-frank@mediaone.net>
>
>>The big boys are starting to upgrade to the Apogee AD1000's. Hopefully
>>more will so they flood the market and drive down the price since I'm
>>going to probably buy one soon.
>
>Actually this is really wrong ... first off, the pre-amps in the
>Lunatec are WAY better than the ones in to AD1000, so getting rid of it
>is actually a downgrade in your system.
Are you sure about that? The onboard pre-amps in the Apogee are made by
Millenia, oddly enough, one of the pres that Mr.Grace allegedly used as
part of the model for the Lunatec and for the newer V2. Talk to some
studio pros about Millenia products. I think you'll be surprised to hear
what they have to say. The studio I purchased my Apogee from had to
purchase a stand-alone Millenia pre-amp to fit in with their new AD8000:)
As far as downgrading your system, try some A/B tapes made with Lunatec vs.
Apogee. I did and subsequently sold my Lunatec.
>
>Second the "big boys" may be after AD1000's in the DAT-Head world, but
>the price isn't going to go down since Apogee isn't interested in
>making any more. If anything it's going to go up since demand is up.
Nope. Price from Apogee via special order may be going up, but just try to
special order one:) So, the used market is really the only one. I don't
think that many of these studios are too concerned with what they get for
the units, with prices as low as $1200. Most are going for $1400-1600
depending on the condition/appearance.
>But the real big boys (studio pros) are upgrading to things much better
>than the Apogee.
Find me a better *portable* D/A than the AD1000. The reason studios are
upgrading and dumping the Apogee ADks is that they can do 24bit A>D.
>
>Now as for some better coming out ... I think you'd be hard pressed to
>find a better pre-amp than the Lunatec...
Well, your may be right, but let's not forget the total package here. The
ADk IMHO sounds better than the Lunatec. I just bought a used Apogee for
~$1600ish. You can get a new Lunatec for $1495ish. What's it worth to you?
>and as for finding a better
>ADC than the Apogee, rumor is a couple of companies are coming out with
>24 bit versions. Midiman has the FlyingCalf that's a small portable
>ADC that's 24 bit and DC powered. Haven't used it, so I couldn't tell
>you if it's any good.
I guess we'll have to wait and see:)
>
>scott
>
I was a very happy Lunatec owner and all I feel like I made some pretty
good tapes with it. It just came about that the Apogees were becoming
available and I could afford the prices beign tossed around. So, I started
to do the A/B/C comparisons and while I liked some of the sonic differences
between the V2>ADk, I didn't like others. But IMHO, I didn't feel like it
was a real $1300+ difference:) So, that said, I sold the V2. Having
access to a friend's ADk to try out and to compare things was a real plus
and made the decision much easier. If you are in the market or think you
will be, try to listen to as much comparison tape as possible.
In celebration,
Kevin
Team Neumann!
Why Settle for Schoeps?
Team Apogee!
Can you Feel the Heat?!?
From: Jacob <jhall1@ic3.ithaca.edu>
Subject: FS: Sony TCD-D7
Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 22:05:39 -0400 (EDT)
I posted this once (kinda) with mixed responses...here goes again:
I've got a used Sony TCD-D7 forsale. It's fresh out of Pro Digital with a
clean bill of health. The heads were cleaned & aligned, the tape path was
cleaned and aligned, and the transport chassis was serviced. Hours on the
deck are few...it was used for taping shows and some dubbing...I'd guess
300 hours. I've also got the Oade 7pin>coax cable. This is the standard
(one of them at least) for the section, and proper taping equipment in
general. Other things included would be the AC adapter, leather(ette)
case, and a variety of cables including an XLR>stereo 1/8" mini
(preamp>deck), 1/8">1/8" (analog patches), and various useful adapters
which are no longer needed by me.
The price...$450 + COD shipping.
Take Care,
Jacob
jhall1@ic3.ithaca.edu
http://members.tripod.com/c0ltrane/
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