DAT-Heads Digest #986
Contents:
got rid of all the over priced eqiup. (Makisupa35@aol.com)
Re: Apogee envy (Jason Reiser)
Lookin for 3 quick WSP trades ("Brian Krahmer")
extra final DS9 - SVHS tape ("Gary Davis")
Ben Harper - 5/29/99 (KentmJohns@aol.com)
ISO: fiji/popper tapers (and setlist) (Stuart Gerber)
Ok, who taped the Chili Peppers this weekend?? ("Dave Pecoraro")
DA-30 32khz sample rate ("dave smith")
DMB ticket sale site ("Vikas Bhatia")
ISO - flecktones 2/19/98 trader ("allan chen")
Re: DAT-Heads Digest #985 (ElTortuga4@aol.com)
ZA2 probs/mailing list (willard robinson)
Freedom Fighters tour (James Peterson)
accessorize, accessorize, accessorize! (KM140 advice, cont.) (Joshua Whitley)
cabling distance (was Re: Soundcard inquiry) ("Matt Garretson")
rechargeable 9V ? ("mark wilkins")
Have Phil & Friends 5/29/99-Mtn. Aire (BMSHEP70@aol.com)
X-tra dats for trade (Greg Tom Lance)
Prodif 32 Digital In/Out Card & Samplitude Red Roaster Software ("Jeff Holloman")
Re: "time aligned mix" - was: Matrix recordings (swsmith@ix.netcom.com)
From: Makisupa35@aol.com
Subject: got rid of all the over priced eqiup.
Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 18:30:39 EDT
Hey all,
I just wanted to tell you that i just sold my HHb deck, B&K mics,
Lunatec, and Apogee A/D1000, because i decided to take all of your advice and
try some comparison tapes. I compared that rig to a mic that came with my
computer that i duct taped to my hat and ran that in to a mini tape thing
that i used to tape my professors lectures way back when, and when i played
both back through my RCA shelf system, i could not notice a single bit of
difference, so i decided to sell all my equipment and invest all that money
in beanie babies. peace
Kev
From: Jason Reiser <jreiser@ecoutez.com>
Subject: Re: Apogee envy
Reply-To: jreiser@ecoutez.com
Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 18:55:48 -0700
Len Moskowitz <moskowit@panix.com> wrote:
>
> A note: B&K (Bruel & Kjaer) is now DPA (Danish Pro Audio).
And Danish Pro Audio is now known as DPA Microphones. They even moved
their website from www.danishproaudio.com to www.dpamicrophones.com
> Don't forget the DPA4022 and the DPA4023. The DPA4023 would likely be the
> compact cardioid of choice for tapers here.
I guess the Lemo connectors on the 4023 are convenient, but the 4021s
side cable design is better suited to stealthy use. The 4022 and 4023
are a bit long by comparison.
If anyone wants to run a comparison between the Apogee and Lunatec as
described earlier, you might consider using the Schoeps MK4s on an STC
bar just for extremely consistant mounting between the multiple rigs.
See ya,
Jason
From: "Brian Krahmer" <brian@krahmer.com>
Subject: Lookin for 3 quick WSP trades
Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 18:08:42 -0600
Hey all,
I've got three copies of WSP's 10/20/98 Colorado Springs show. The master
was from Marc Nutter, and sounds great. I'm looking for a quick trade for
Dead, Trey, Phish, or Phil & Friends. I'll take the first three offers.
(1x90m ea.)
thanks,
brian
--
Brian Krahmer - brian@krahmer.com - http://www.krahmer.com
Expert 4.0 - Intelligent Network Security - http://www.L-3Security.com
From: "Gary Davis" <gdavis@loop.com>
Subject: extra final DS9 - SVHS tape
Reply-to: gdavis@loop.com
Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 18:32:18 -0700
I have an extra "master" tape of the final episode of Star Trek Deep
Space Nine from the satellite feed - this version has commercials
but no "UPN" logo. You will need a SuperVHS deck (or QSPB) to
play this tape. Inquire if interested... thanks! (Sorry, I've watched
the whole thing and there is no mention of DAT technology... there
was a referrence to flux capacitors, however - weren't they invented
in a different universe, I mean, movie?)
--G
Oh... in case you're wondering how it ends, Odo refused to say
"goodbye" to Quark.
From: KentmJohns@aol.com
Subject: Ben Harper - 5/29/99
Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 21:39:45 EDT
Hey there peeps,
Did anybody else happen to tape the Ben Harper show at the Santa Barbara
County Bowl on 5/29/99? We ran CSB=>D8 and also ran Sonics (missing the
first 2 songs). I am looking for other possible sources. Please get in
touch via email.
Thanks,
Kent
From: Stuart Gerber <stuart@mindspring.com>
Subject: ISO: fiji/popper tapers (and setlist)
Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 22:20:00 -0400
Well topic says it .. i know you boys are out there since we talked after
the show..
Alan if you could please send over a email with the setlist (i remember you
holding the one from the stage) that woudl be great so i wouldnt have a
blank DAT tape sitting around ..
and anyone else who was taping it send over an email so ican have it on
file .. so i know who are the atlanta tapers i see often..
peace,
stuart
stuart@mindspring.com
http://stuart.home.mindspring.com
ACiD RC5 Team
http://rc5.distributed.net
"Set the gearshift for the high
gear of your soul, you've got to run like
an antelope out of control" - Dude Of Life
From: "Dave Pecoraro" <dave_peck@snet.net>
Subject: Ok, who taped the Chili Peppers this weekend??
Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 23:18:28 -0400
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Hello all,
Hit Baltimore and Mansfield, and what a great weekend!! Chili=20
Peppers rocked both nights... Anyone tape?? I thought Mansfield
was a better show, better sound, better crowd, but would love to
score a tape of either night. Please contact me if you taped...=20
Thanks!
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::.
::Dave Pecoraro <---> dave_peck@snet.net ::.
::ICQ: 18974698 <---> AOL: mkdevo :::.
::Dave's Digital ---> http://members.aol.com/mkdevo/index.htm :::'
::CD-R Cover Art ---> http://members.aol.com/mkdevo/covers.html ::'
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::'
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3401" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Hello all,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Hit Baltimore and Mansfield, and what a great weekend!! Chili =
</DIV>
<DIV>Peppers rocked both nights... Anyone tape?? I thought =
Mansfield</DIV>
<DIV>was a better show, better sound, better crowd, but would love =
to</DIV>
<DIV>score a tape of either night. Please contact me if you taped... =
</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::.<B=
R>::Dave=20
Pecoraro <---> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:dave_peck@snet.net">dave_peck@snet.net</A> &nbs=
p;  =
; =20
::.<BR>::ICQ: 18974698 <---> AOL:=20
mkdevo &=
nbsp; &n=
bsp; =20
:::.<BR>::Dave's Digital ---> <A=20
href=3D"http://members.aol.com/mkdevo/index.htm">http://members.aol.com/m=
kdevo/index.htm</A> =20
:::'<BR>::CD-R Cover Art ---> <A=20
href=3D"http://members.aol.com/mkdevo/covers.html">http://members.aol.com=
/mkdevo/covers.html</A>=20
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From: "dave smith" <peterd22@hotmail.com>
Subject: DA-30 32khz sample rate
Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 20:50:34 PDT
Hey everyone,
I wanted to know if there were any Tascam DA-30 users out there who have
recorded using AES/EBU. When I recorded a live show last month, the display
window said 32Khz. When I play the DAT, it also says 32Khz. Is that normal?
I had the deck set at AES/EBU digital in, 44.1Khz, and used a shielded XLR
cable. I've read all the literature I could find on this recording method,
but nothing I've seen, said anything about the sample rate. The sound is
pretty sweet, so I guess I can't complain. It's a friend's deck, and he just
had it refurbished to like new condition, so I don't think there's anything
wrong with the deck itself. I know it's a newbie thing, but if you could
help me out I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
-Dave
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From: "Vikas Bhatia" <vikas10@hotmail.com>
Subject: DMB ticket sale site
Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 21:20:05 PDT
anyone know the address for the site where people post to buy/sell DMB tix
for face value? your help would be greatly appreciated. need to unload a
couple and pick some up as well.
thanks in advance
vikas
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From: "allan chen" <kaiyen@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: ISO - flecktones 2/19/98 trader
Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 21:45:46 -0700
Hi there,
I feel like such an ass. I am trading with someone for the 2/19/98
flecktones show. I had to format my drive and lost what show you wanted
from me and your name (which I should know anyway, but, like I said, I'm an
ass). Please get in touch with me.
thanks,
allan chen
From: ElTortuga4@aol.com
Subject: Re: DAT-Heads Digest #985
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 02:35:01 EDT
In a message dated 5/31/99 8:38:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
DAT-Heads-Request@fedney.near.net writes:
<< Hey All,
Last night I was having dinner with a couple of friends and one
claimed that the faster you burn a CD, on computer,the lesser the
quality. I find him to be bull shitting me but I am not sure. Anyone
else have any thoughts on this notion, possibly a reason for this myth
if it is a myth?
Take it easy
Ryan
It has been found that high speed burns 6x-8x have a higher chance of
failing in
some cd players. Does that mean lesss quality? Probably not, but it's
worth
factoring in.
Sal >>
I've burnt at 4X's speed a couple of times, and the quality didn't seem any
less, however there is a much greater chance for errors and glitches.
From: willard robinson <willr@star.net>
Subject: ZA2 probs/mailing list
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 08:56:48 -0400
I just went to Win98 and am now getting a lot of DMA buffer
overruns, (I had it working fine under 95) - anyone got
any ideas? Also is there a mailing list for the ZA2?
tc
Will
From: James Peterson <jwpe@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU>
Subject: Freedom Fighters tour
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 09:03:18 -0400
Michael Rose and Andrew Tosh are currently touring with
the Fully Fullwood band. Andrew sounds just like his father, they both played
a really tight show.
These shows will most likely have to be stealthed.
Although I did not get the chance to stealth If anyone can I would love to
trade.
Thanks in advance.
-J
"We Jah people can make it work" BM
James
From: Joshua Whitley <sprung598@yahoo.com>
Subject: accessorize, accessorize, accessorize! (KM140 advice, cont.)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 08:09:59 -0700 (PDT)
Howdy, all! After much research, and even more
anticipation, we finally got our KM140's. Got them
from www.musicians-gear.com for just a shade under
$1700, all told, and broke them in with a couple of
really smokin' Leftover Salmon shows this past week.
We are running KM140>Beyer MV100>D8, and I'm
thoroughly happy with the results.
Many, many thanks to all the individuals who offered
advice in my initial posting about researching the
purchase.
Now, we're looking to collect the odds and end of the
rig...I'm looking for the best place to buy XLR
cables, windscreens, a pelican case, a mic stand and a
shock mount (as well as suggestions on any other
pieces that people have found helpful to them).
Thanks!
-Josh
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From: "Matt Garretson" <garrem@alum.rpi.edu>
Subject: cabling distance (was Re: Soundcard inquiry)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 11:50:33 -0400
Hello, i am considering either a ZA2 or a DATport but have a silly
obstacle which i'm wondering about: my DAT deck and my computer
are in different rooms! They are about 40-50 feet apart "as the
cable runs", and i'm afraid that this exceeds the various max
distances of coax, optical, or even coax + USB.
My DAT deck is a DA-20, which unfortunately doesn't support balanced
XLR connections (AFAIK).
Do i have to bite the bullet and reorganize my apartment, or is
this cabling distance somehow workable? Do all you PC/DAT'ers
have their DAT/audio decks next their computers?
Thanks,
-Matt
From: "mark wilkins" <wilkinsmd@hotmail.com>
Subject: rechargeable 9V ?
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 08:48:04 PDT
Hotmail seems to indefinitely delay an outgoing message from time to time to
please excuse if this comes through twice...
Was in Radio Shack the other day and noticed two new 9V rechargeable
batteries. (Maybe they've had these a while but this was the first time I
noticed them.) First was a high capacity Ni-Cad rated at 120mAH. The
package said that when fully charged it will measure 7.2 volts. They were I
think two or three bucks each. Then I noticed a Ni-MH 9V rechargeable rated
at 150mAH, and that package said it will measure 8.4V when fully charged.
Those are $10.99 ea(!).
My question is, has anyone tried these in preamps such as a Beyer or
Sonosax, and if so, how long have they lasted (while providing phantom)?
Thanks for any info.
Mark
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From: BMSHEP70@aol.com
Subject: Have Phil & Friends 5/29/99-Mtn. Aire
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 13:07:26 EDT
Taped down front, center, about 15 ft. back w/ AKG C1000s. Looking for trades
of all kinds. Peace and Balance!
From: Greg Tom Lance <ccryder@ksu.edu>
Subject: X-tra dats for trade
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:19:24 -0500 (CDT)
Hey All,
I've got 2 extra dats that are up for grabs.
Phish
10.22.95 Champaign,Il B&K 4021's
Dead
6.30.85 Columbia,Md Sbd->Cass->Dat
Both are on Maxell Hs4 90m's. I'll accept
the same in return for B&P. Or I'm more
than willing to set up a trade.
Enjoy the day,
Greg
ccryder@ksu.edu
From: "Jeff Holloman" <jmhollom@netbox.com>
Subject: Prodif 32 Digital In/Out Card & Samplitude Red Roaster Software
Reply-To: "Jeff Holloman" <jmhollom@netbox.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 10:54:36 -0700
I have for sale the Prodif 32 16/20/24 Bit PCI-Bus Digital In/Out Card.
Information from the manufacturer about this card can be found here:
http://www.sekd.com/Prodif32.htm
Included is the Samplitude 2496 Red Roaster 5.1 digital audio software.
Information from the manufacturer is here:
http://www.sekd.com/redroast.htm
Both the hardware and software are used for five months and are in excellent
condition (with original packing, etc.).
They are avalible from me for US$500 or best offer.
I can be contacted at jmhollom@netbox.com or 1-415-775-5118.
Thank you,
Jeff Holloman
From: swsmith@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: "time aligned mix" - was: Matrix recordings
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 12:52:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: swsmith@ix.netcom.com
To: gdavis@loop.com
Date: 05/30/99 17:21:22
Subject: Re: "time aligned mix" - was: Matrix recordings
Hey Gary,
Some interesting points there . . . "Matrix" is the most common term used, but I'd say that
"time aligned mix" would be more descriptive, and more accurate.
Re: headphone output of Mackies; The headphone op-amp on the 1202 sucks, plain & simple. It's
an older design and has not been upgraded, even in the new models. Only works well on 60 ohm or
less headphones. That on the 1402 seems to work well for me, with the Sony MDR-7506 (closed back,
70 ohm phones), and the ATH-M40fs (closed back phones, 60 ohm). The Beyerdynamic DT 770s (closed
back, 600 ohm) cans don't like it however. All of these phones work fine w/ the 1604, but the
Sonys' tend to clip the bass frequencies, especially at or below 800 hz. Small mass drivers, is
my theory, but at least it's a _consistent_ distortion and w/ practice semi-usefull. ;)
I'm thinking that the distortion you're experiencing is a combination of trying to drive phones w/
too high an impedance value for the headphone amp, as well as the lack of total output wattage
from the lower-end Mackies. I've been looking in to alternatives for critical monitoring myself,
so your in-ear w/ earmuff isolation and a separate headphone driver amp idea seems like a logical
direction to take. Now if I can just incorporate a wireless transmitter . . . ;)
I've been experimenting w/ a number of different techniques, Stereo SBD main w/delay + Stereo
mic pair (traditional matrix), Stereo SBD "B mix" w/delay + Stereo mic pair, Matrix mix (or Aux
mix) w/delay + Stereo mic pair, and my personal favorite "SBD/6 + 10", a composite mix of the
Stereo Main L & R outputs, all four subgroup outs, and 10 isolation mics, type & location
depending on instrumentation of the act in question. These are designations for the tape labels,
by the way, so that I can easily compare the different methods against each other. The common
reference is "Soundboard plus".
Your "SSSS" mix sounds very similar to the SBD/6 +10 mix I've been running for a few years.
It usually consists of a 3 channel "Capitol" drum mix (kick drum, rear head, snare & OH mic) but
sometimes I'll combine kick, snare & an AT-825 stereo OH for a 4 ch mix. Additional mics are
placed on guitar cabinets, or a DI split is taken from the pickup of acoustic instruments, two
channels are taken from the bass amp (DI and close mic in combination)if possible, and signal from
keyboards are usually DI inputs (stereo if possible). If there are too many keyboards, I'll add
in the 1402 and submix them down to a stereo pair to save channels. Vocals are usually taken from
the FOH board subgroups, and both the 'dry' and 'wet' mixes are used. The tape usually needs less
of the voc. effects than the FOH mix does. If necessary I'll also take a vocal channel from the
direct output send of the FOH board. I do use some light compression, usually on the kick and
bass DI channels, just to keep the final output levels under control. Individual channels are
panned according to the position of the instruments on stage, drum channels are spread a bit more
as a separate stereo group, with the gated and compressed FOH subgroup used as fill. I'll also
spread the individual vocals a bit in stereo, which adds a bit more location and placement
information. Adding room sound to this mix is unnecessary, especially as the vocal mics pick up
more than enough of the overall sound of the room, and way too much of the drum kit as well. ;) I
do place a three panel folding plexiglass isolation screen in front of the drums to limit the
bleed, but some drummers are still too loud. This all mixes down to 2 track stereo.
The only exception I would make to your statement about adding room sound is when mixing to
multitrack for later remix and commercial release. At least a pair of directional mics, located
on stage and aimed out at the audience, are nearly essential to recreate the "live" ambience and
capture the audience response to the performance. Without this the final mix is too sterile.
Having the original applause tail on tape is also a great help when editing, as any
rearrangement of song order or splices can be easily disguised with a subtle crossfade between
sections having similar levels and tone.
I'm in full agreement w/ you as to the general unsuitability of the FOH mix for recording. The
mixing process is not simply a matter of putting all of the sources into the mix and adjusting
levels. In most club situations, and even in larger theatres and halls, most of the amplified
instruments are at minimal levels in the final mix, and sometimes are not present at all. If the
guitar is already too loud, why add more? (I could make a billion dollars if I could produce a
"negative volume switch" that would _reduce_ the overall volume of a guitar player in the room,
without changing his amp settings or volume onstage. . . something like another guitar amp
completely out of phase so that it all cancels out? <g> ) Unfortunately this means that for the
recording engineer, the typical SBD mix is all vocals, some of the drums, bass below 1,000 hz, the
occasional accordion, harmonica, or saxaphone, and little tiny guitars off in the distance. And
then there are all too many venues that only mix in mono . . . bastards! ;)
Mixing the delayed SBD output with an audience pair does have several advantages, however. It
captures more elements of the performance than is possible with either one alone, the less
desirable aspects of each source are minimized by the strengths of the other, and the positive
ones are reinforced. A synergistic combination . . . The gear required to do this is minimal,
esp. when compared to that needed for the SBD+ type of mix, and the setup time and space needed
are also much less. Technical difficulty is only about a "5", on a scale of 10. "Back of the
room" micing is a complete waste of time. Even with hyper or supercard mics the result is a
signal that has all of the secondary reflections and echoes of the room as well as the direct
sound of the PA. This is why I try to locate the mics within 20'-40' of the stage, and utilize a
ceiling mount whenever possible. It also minimizes the drift in arrival times between different
parts of the frequency band, thus allowing tighter control over the time alignment. A near-
coincident ORTF pattern at this distance results in a 90 degree angle of acceptance, and localizes
the various sound sources accurately. Adding the SBD signal provides clarity and punch to the
mix. It is an artificially derived stero mix, but that can be said of most types of recording
from stereo pair to full studio multi-tracks.
I don't see that the "foot of stage" technique offers any real advantages, other than not
requiring a delay unit and overall convenience/fewer wires. I haven't done much of this
particular type of recording though, as I prefer the results from the "SBD+" or time aligned
methods. . . And I'd still rather listen to a good audience tape than a straight SBD. ;) Maybe
I'll try it for the "xxxx xxxxxxx" (deleted to prevent groveling) show tonight, if the band will
allow. I do have several acoustic music shows that I taped using a 4 ch SBD feed with a front of
stage AT-822 stereo mic that did come out well, before I got my delay, so maybe there is something
to this?
Stan
<0 \\ swsmith@ix.netcom.com Stan Smith, Dallas, TX 'boo-cat'
=) "Rule 1) Is it plugged in? Rule 2) Is it turned on?
<0 // Rule 3) Is it me or is it the equipment? " - tapers' koan #5
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