DAT-Heads Digest #701
Contents:
Any Stealthers at the Star Plaza? (billf)
Portable DAT and Stereo Mic (John Perser)
Re: The 0dBFS Strangeness issue (revilak@umbsky.cc.umb.edu) (Norbert Hahn)
JGB Pictures (Mooney Monteilh)
Re: DAT-Heads Digest #699 (Gordon Gullahorn)
Head cleaners? (mcgrupp@xnet.com)
Frank Black (jonathan aaron cohen)
Looking for pre-Dead Garcia for tree tape (Bemand@aol.com)
DAT deck sighting on TV ("John R. Vanderpool")
Lowest price on Sony 60ES / 670- For sale (bmilner)
KAO 60 mtr 4.50 each. (Art Munson)
stealth taping with Neumann KM-184 s (FELIX DIGIUSTO)
Gov,t Mule (Duncan)
Re: online concert broadcasts (Man on the Edge)
PRIMO DAT RAX (FCatBallew@aol.com)
WTB- CSB mics! (Altaf Kassam)
Macintosh Taper Software: Are you out there? (Mike Marlin)
(no subject) (zeet)
D7 Power Supply (Jonathan Seder)
WANTED: 9/12/87 Grateful Dead (Craig Hillwig)
D7 power supply - can I use non-Sony? (Al Sabirsh) (David Brown)
From: billf <billf@devel2.cts.wi.babss.com>
Subject: Any Stealthers at the Star Plaza?
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 96 08:14:30 CST
Just wondering if anyone got a tape of either of the 2 shows on Saturday, April
6 at the Star Plaza Theatre in Merilville, IN? It was B.B. King, Bobby Blue
Bland, and the Manhattans. The sound quality was superb, and it seemed like it
would have made a good recording.
BTW, for all you Jerry Band fans, the Manhattans are the guys that do the
original version of "Shining Star". Yes they played it, and it was wonderful.
Check out my pint sized Dat list at
http://users.aol.com/darkstar67/
-Bill
From: John Perser <jperser@stanzi.paradigmsim.com>
Subject: Portable DAT and Stereo Mic
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 09:21:07 -0500
I'm planning to buy a new portable DAT for field recording sound
effects and very light studio use. I'm looking at the
Tascam DA-P1 and either the Audio Technica 825 or the Crown SASP.
Any suggestions?
--
John Perser Manager/Audio Products
mailto://jperser@paradigmsim.com Paradigm Simulation, Inc.
PHONE: 214-960-2301 FAX: 214-960-2303
http://www.paradigmsim.com http://web2.airmail.net/jperser
From: Norbert Hahn <hahn@hrz1.hrz.th-darmstadt.de>
Subject: Re: The 0dBFS Strangeness issue (revilak@umbsky.cc.umb.edu)
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 16:40:55 +0200
On Thu, 04 Apr 1996 revilak@umbsky.cc.umb.edu wrote...
> Subject: The 0dBFS Strangeness issue
[snip]
> "these will play back properly on a Tascam deck, and practically on all Sony
> decks.....but if you play them back on a Panasonic, you *will* have audible
> distortion, because those machines don't handle information at odBFS in
> the same fashion as ours......(proceeds to list a mumber of DAT and workstation manufacturers and the effects on their machines...)..."
I checked my TASCAM DA-30 mkII (October 1994) and my Sony DTC 59 ES
with my scope and some sine and square signals with following
results:
Both decks encode the analogue signals linearily. The over indicator
of the TASCAM comes on at -0.1 dB earlier than that of the Sony for a
steady 1 kHz sinusoidal signal. This changes when using a square wave
signal. The TASCAM indicator comes on earlier because it registers
the overshoot which is introduced by the LP filter.
The indicators require at least 4 samples for an accurate reading:
I consider 1 dB error as accurate (we are going to record music!).
The major differences between the DA-30 mkII and the Sony DTC 59 ES
can be observed when playing back a 0 dB recording:
A 1 kHz square wave signal was recorded such that the flat part of
the signal occupied all available bits. The over indicator came on
because the overshoot generated by the LP filter in the AD stage
would require more digits. In this case the DA converter of the
DA-30-ii generated a clean square wave with overshoot at the analogue
output while that of the Sony DTC 59 ES was modulated with the
sampling frequency. I conclude from that that the digital filter of
the Sony DAC runs out of numbers while that of the TASCAM does not.
The DA-30-ii uses a Crystal Semi DAC (18 bit wide, delta sigma
technology).
>
> The Tascam concluseion was ultimately "If you plan on playing back
> your mixes on machines other than our and are concerned about
> compatibility...***mix so that your peaks hit -2dBFS***".
>
The overshoot was roughly some 2 dB, so I guess, this has to do with
the digital filters employed: Their ability to handle transients may
be quite different (think of Denon's alpha processors...)
> I spent the next couple of days visiting ....playing back the tape of Tascam-
> recorded mixes back on every different make of machine and digital work-
> station I could...
>
> What he said was *exactly* what happened.
>
>
> Try this...record some material on a Tascam deck, frequently hitting Zero,
> but producing no overs. Play it back on a Panasonic. What happens.
>
> A better experiment--collect both a Tascam deck and a Panasonic deck.
> Record some material (again hitting zero, no overs). Play it back on the
> Tascam, but feed it's SPDIF out into a Panasonics SPDIF in. (Put the Panasonic
> in record-pause for monitoring purposes).
I did a similar experiment with my above mentioned decks. No audible
difference between the ADCs but between the DACs! Sony DACs are wide
spread among other manufactures and can be found in CD players as
well. Consider this when normalizing a CD!
Admitted, the DTC 59 ES is no longer produced, but what DACs are in the
current decks and portables? ... and in CD players? How do they
perform?
I wonder why the TASCAM rep told you that the Sony decks work
flawlessly with the TASCAM ? At least my decks don't.
[snip]
>
> Numbers ARE supposed to be numbers!! However, it does seem to be the
> case that different manufacturers may produce equipment which INTERPRETS
> those numbers DIFFERENTLY!!
>
> In scoping this out, I found others with similar experiences. At least
> there's a little bit of gratification there.
Yes numbers are numbers when referring to a steady sine wave signal.
But when it comes to anything else we have to be careful and have to
watch how the analogue signal is filtered and transfered to digital.
And back!
>
> A pain in the butt for guys like me....people whose jobs involve working with
> this gear every day. The trick is to find about all these little 'rules and
> exceptions' before you have a berate client on the phone, who happened to
> find out about them first... (-:
>
>
> Steve
>
Norbert Hahn
From: Mooney Monteilh <emm7369@usl.edu>
Subject: JGB Pictures
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 08:56:11 +0000
Hey Now,
Sorry for the Grovel, But:
I'm looking for sharp pictures of the JGB. If anybody has nice Photo's
and are willing to trade, I'll trade DAT's are Ananlog for them. It's
a wedding present for a close friend. I've also have plenty of nice
orignal Dead photo's and will trade.
Thanks for your time-------------------------------Mooney
P.S. I'm still looking for Clevend 78( World to give), St.louis 95
Soundcheck and the National Anthem by Jerry,Bobby and Vince. Thanks!!!
From: Gordon Gullahorn <gordon@mars.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: DAT-Heads Digest #699
Reply-To: ggullahorn@cfa.harvard.edu
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 11:40:50 -0400 (EDT)
Hi Joe,
I have a DA-20 and have done much A>D and D>A with it (actually
a friend did most of the A>D from his analog masters). So here's
some comments/suggestions from my feeble understanding of DATly matters
(somebody please correct the major goofs!):
>
> From: Joe McCabe <jcpm@crest.org>
> Subject: No sound or meters on playing DA-20
> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 09:09:54 -0400 (EDT)
>
> I hate to be another one of those DA-20 blues people, having had NO
> problem with mine till now since Oct. 1995. I have 20 DAT tapes, the
> deck has maybe 175 hours of playing time. I tried my first analog taping
> yesterday. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Here's a clue. Either something's broke that you never used before,
because you never did analog taping before, or maybe you are
doing something wrong. (You don't say if you mean taping from DAT to
analog or analog source to DAT -- I assume the latter.) Check the setup.
Tascam's instructions are written by the usual inscrutable engineer who
barely speaks Japanese, then translated into French and then English by
native Bengali speakers who know nothing about DAT, but they do work.
Does the level meter show action from the input? Does the counter
advance while you are recording?
Try recording a few start IDs at, say, 5 minute intervals. Do they
show up when you play the tape? If so and the level meters show
input, then maybe you have a bad A>D converter; the ID's (and A-time,
see below) would indicate you are writing to tape, but I think the
levels are displayed from the analog input/output, not the digital
signal.
Are you absolutely sure the tape advanced while you (thought you) were
recording?
> Then when I try to play the tape, no music and no meter
> action. This is the same for other tapes that I know are good. The
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
? How do you know they are good? Do you mean that your 20 tapes
can no longer be played? the deck has gone belly up for all your dats?
> counter counts, but no sound. Also, upon insert of the tape the counter
> shows zero's no matter what the actual location on the tape is.
There are several different counter modes. There is a time that is
actually written on the tape, called the A-time, when it is recorded.
Use the mode button until a little "A time" lights up to the top right
of the time display. Annoyingly, the DA-20 does NOT come up
automatically displaying A-time even when present. Its standard mode
seems to be elapsed time since you started playing the tape; i.e. if
you eject it and start playing in the middle, it will count from there.
Also, if your tape was not recorded on, i.e. if you are trying to play
a totally blank tape, I think it will still display a time. (I'm not
too clear on this mode as I try to use the A-time; I'll check it out
tonight.) This would account for your symptoms if you are playing a
tape with no A-time recorded in the subcode.
From: mcgrupp@xnet.com
Subject: Head cleaners?
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 11:17:21 -0500 (CDT)
Hello All-
I was wondering what's the concensus on "wet" head cleaners? There is only
one source mentioned in the FAQ with no reliability reports. Are there
other sources out there? What experiences have you had?
Thx.....Sean
p.s. this would be for use on a D7 or a DA20
Bigfish <mcgrupp@xnet.com>
From: jonathan aaron cohen <joacohen@indiana.edu>
Subject: Frank Black
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 11:30:24 -0500 (EST)
Hello folks.
I have a SUPERB DAT master of Frank Black and Jonny Polonsky from Second
Story in Bloomington, IN Monday night. This is one of the few small
clubs Black is playing on this tour and the show was amazing.
Black's set runs 85 minutes; Polonsky's is around 40. Polonsky did a
cover of Nirvana's "In Bloom" during his set.
I also have a 10 minute interview with Polonsky on the tape.
Show was taped with a Sony-TCD-D7 DAT and an ECM-909A mic.
Looking for recent DATs of Velocity Girl, Echobelly, and anything by
Morrissey, suddenly, tammy!, Verve Pipe, Oasis.
Jonathan
From: Bemand@aol.com
Subject: Looking for pre-Dead Garcia for tree tape
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 14:02:16 -0400
I am in the beginning stages of what promises to be a long process of
collecting all the pre-Grateful Dead Garcia recordings that I can. I hope to
offer up my finished product as a tree. Thus far, it looks as though it will
take at least 2 or 3 two hour DATs.
If anyone out there has anything, please e-mail me with your details. In
return, I will offer a trade for the tape(s), plus there will be a special
branch of the tree for those who contributed.
Please contact me only if you have material for the tapes; please don't sign
up for the tree now. There will be ample oppurtunity to do so later.
Last I heard, Jeff Tiedrich was compiling a list of such tapes. You can
check out that and a lot of other cool stuff on his web page:
http://www.tiedrich.com/tapelist/
Until next time, take good care!
Deane
From: "John R. Vanderpool" <fish@daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: DAT deck sighting on TV
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 14:34:35 -0400 (EDT)
saw the piece on "60 Minutes" a few weeks back on the shock-jock "Imus"
and they had what looked like a Panasonic 3700 playing in the background
(sure hope they like their 3700 better than i like mine!)
fish
From: bmilner <bmilner@netcom.com>
Subject: Lowest price on Sony 60ES / 670- For sale
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 13:01:14 -0700 (PDT)
Dear List,
It's time to upgrade my studio to a DAT machine that can record
at 44.1 so I guess it's a 60ES. Nice warrentee and good sound too. I
had a Tascam DA-30 and hated it so I'm wary of the DA-30II and I don't
have a good way of interfacing the fostex D5 with my home stereo so
scratch that.
So, is the cheapest place still for $800 as indicated in the most
recent market posting. ( $1200 list, $800 (Masterpiece Audio,))?
Please let me know, I wanna buy one and sell my Sony 670 with the
trasport upgrade and a 2 year warrentee left. For maybe $400? it would
be $350 but the warrentee is worth at least $50.
Brandon
From: Art Munson <artmuns@tape.com>
Subject: KAO 60 mtr 4.50 each.
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 15:04:02 -0500 (CDT)
Hi,
KAO has come up with a special offer so the 60 mtr price is now 4.50
each at 10 qty and 4.25 at 50. This price is in effect as long as
their special pricing is.
I'm not selling the KAO 90 mtr as I think the Maxell/OEM at 5.25 at 10
and 4.75 at 50 is a better deal.
We take MC/VISA/AMEX. You can e-mail your order or call us at
800-321-5738
Thanks
Art
*************************************************************************
* Cassette House e-mail:artmuns@tape.com *
* DAT tape - CDR's - Cassettes web page http://www.tape.com/ch *
* 800-321-5738 "I will use no track before its time" *
*************************************************************************
From: FELIX DIGIUSTO <FTHECAT@msn.com>
Subject: stealth taping with Neumann KM-184 s
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 96 22:16:26 UT
Apologies if this is an improper topic,but this is the only place I know to
recieve this info. Has anybody come up with a method stealth with KM-184 s.
Placement is what I'm concerned with, ie. in acertain type of hat ... If
this is inapropriate for this news group E-Mail me privately at
FTHECAT@MSN.COM THANKS for your time. Felix.
From: Duncan <duncan@epix.net>
Subject: Gov,t Mule
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 18:35:45 -0400 (EDT)
Hello Everyone,last week I recorded Gov,t Mule in Syracuse
at one of the sleazyest bars i,ve been in,in a long time"
Anyway its FOB>Schoeps>D-10>digital patch>D-8,it ran just under
two hours,and fits on 60 meter Dat.The show came out well,would
like to do a quick trade,for more Mule or JGB, I,m low on
blanks so my trades are limitted.I will supply the seed if
some one wants to tree the show out. Thanks for Space,if you get
a chance to see Warren Hayes,jump on it, You wouldn,t be disappointed
THANKS..........duncan@epix.net
From: Man on the Edge <davros@cyclone.stanford.edu>
Subject: Re: online concert broadcasts
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 16:14:49 -0700 (PDT)
> From: BFREDKIN@cmcvax.mckenna.edu
> Subject: on-line concert broadcasts
> Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 02:03:56 -0700 (PDT)
>
> hello,
> i have a request to make to any one of you dat-heads who can help me out.
> i was wondering if anyone here had some experience transfering concerts being
> broadcast on-line through the internet to dat. in particular, the Oasis show
> from S.F. this saturday, april 13, will be broadcast on-line and i'm looking
> for someone who has an optimum setup to get the best possible sound and who
> can put it onto dat for me. i will of course compensate you for blanks, will
> trade for a clone of it, whatever, just let me know if you can help. i'd
> really appreciate it. the name of the Oasis website where you can find all
> the info is: http://www.oasisinet.com/
Don't bother. If you've ever listened to a RealAudio broadcast over
the net, you'll realize that it's not worth recording it. The quality
is pretty bad. It IS dependent on the processing speed of your
computer, but even then you're not going to get anything worth
recording to DAT. Of course, all of this is IMHO.
Max :)
--
I realize there's no turning back
Life goes on the offbeaten track
Mike Portnoy, 1995
From: FCatBallew@aol.com
Subject: PRIMO DAT RAX
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 22:34:04 -0400
Hey now,
I just received three beautiful DAT storage racks from Chris at
treyrox@ix.netcom.com.
They really are a quality item. I'd recommend them to anybody who's looking
for an alternative to makeshift boxes or cases.
Good job Chris!
Peace,
FCat
From: Altaf Kassam <altaf@aimnet.com>
Subject: WTB- CSB mics!
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 21:29:48 -0700
I'm looking for some used Core Sounds mics (preferably the battery box
version). Is there anyone out there looking to sell theirs? Please let
me know. Please reply via e-mail. Thanks.
Altaf Kassam
altaf@aimnet.com
From: Mike Marlin <marlin@eskimo.com>
Subject: Macintosh Taper Software: Are you out there?
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 22:05:13 -0700 (PDT)
Can anyone help? I'm wondering if there's any Mac compatible tape trading
database software out there I can download. I want to trade but I don't
have a list of my fairly large collection. All I have is a lame database
in MS Works. Any suggestions? Thanks.
-Mike Marlin
Seattle, Wa
From: zeet <zeet@olywa.net>
Subject: (no subject)
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 1996 21:20:08 -0700
SUBSCRIBE zeet@olywa.net
From: Jonathan Seder <70324.1770@compuserve.com>
Subject: D7 Power Supply
Date: 10 Apr 96 02:48:06 EDT
TO: >INTERNET: alan@biogen.wblab.lu.se ;
TO: >INTERNET: DAT-heads@virginia.edu
For TCD-D7 power, Sony specifies the AC-E60L wall wart which produces 650mA.
Via Golden CommPass and Warp Connect
From: Craig Hillwig <chill@voicenet.com>
Subject: WANTED: 9/12/87 Grateful Dead
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 06:53:03 -0400
This is my regular, obligatory grovel for this GD show on DAT.
Come to Butthead....
==================
Craig Hillwig
chill@voicenet.com
From: David Brown <dmbrown@iinet.net.au>
Subject: D7 power supply - can I use non-Sony? (Al Sabirsh)
Date: Wed, 10 Apr 1996 18:55:59 +0800
<You can use a non-Sony power supply; however, it should be
<well-regulated (some of the generic ones might not have clean enough
<output). The D7 uses a power plug that you might have to buy from
<Sony.
<Seth
The required plug (EIAJ standard 1.7mm) is difficult to obtain - at least
here in Australia, but the general purpose plug packs available from
Tandy/Radio Shack and others come with a set of adaptors which includes this
size. Info courtesy of someone on this list - sorry I've forgotten who it was.
David
______________________ ____________________________________
email Red Pepper WWW page
dmbrown@iinet.com.au http://www.iinet.com.au/~dmbrown/
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