DAT-heads Digest #946, Volume #5 Thu, 28 Jun 01 20:50:01 EDT Contents: Re: sweet spot (Neal Copperman) FS: SONY PCM-R500 ("Jefferey J Arango") ISO: Travis shows ("Lane Kelly") Re: sweet spot ("John F. Whitehead") Re: ISO: Side Trips (Garcia, Kahn) ("John F. Whitehead") Ignore Side Trip ISO (Stuart Gerber) Ben Harper DAT/CDR Wishlist (BenHarperTrades@aol.com) Phil Tour (ZepMan@aol.com) Re:Phantom Power Supply (Len Moskowitz) ATTENTION: JAMIE LUTCH (gthrush@du.edu) AKG 480/ck61 and PS-2 power supply ("Justin Trinkes") Re: Core Sound HEBs and Zifero InBox (Len Moskowitz) ISO U2 at Continental arena NJ (Drew) slow but steady... ("Michael Ryan") patching (Jason Neely) Re: patching (Jason Neely) ISO: Brand new HHB CD-R 800 ("liverich@sunlink.net") ISO: Trey Taper's tix for deer creek ("Chris Mescia") Re: ISO: Side Trips (Garcia, Kahn) (Jeff Lester) ISO: P+Fs L.A. 6-27-01 (Dimar) Uriah Heep (Tom Cavanaugh) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Neal Copperman Subject: Re: sweet spot Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:23:00 -0600 (MDT) On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Mark McHarg wrote: > so picking up what the musicians are hearing seems the best bet. This is definitely not true all the time. The mix on the stage, if done to the band's satisfaction, is what the band needs to hear to play their music. This may mean boosting the bass in the drummers monitor, or bringing other elements up or down, depending on what aspect of the music a particular musician needs to coordinate most with. The band might not even agree that is the way their music should be presented. Plus, I have lots of stories about problems with sound on the monitors. I've been to shows where the band complains about feedback throughout the entire show, but that was only audible from the monitors, not the house mix. The worst exampe is a show I went to where a nearby talk radio station was bleeding over (somehow) into the speakers. All through the first half of the show, we got traffic and news with our music. When the band learned of this, they had the house and stage swapped, so that they had to play over traffic and news, but we had a better sounding show. neal ------------------------------ From: "Jefferey J Arango" Subject: FS: SONY PCM-R500 Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:42:23 -0400 Sony R500 in excellent condition. Deck only has 120 hours on it, which is barely anything for this deck, as i'm sure most of you already know...Asking $750 obo....email me at the address below...thanks!!! Jeffery J. Arango Environmental Planner STV Incorporated 225 Park Ave. S-5th Fl. New York, NY 10003 Phone: (646) 602-5823 Email:arangojj@stvinc.com ------------------------------ From: "Lane Kelly" Subject: ISO: Travis shows Reply-to: lkelly@infi.net Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:55:16 -0400 Is there anyone out in DAT-heads land with shows from Travis? I'm especially eager to find someone who might have SHN versions available for an online transfer. Apparently, a relative is a big fan, so I'd love to be able to pick up some quality recordings in a hurry. Thanks in advance for any help. I have plenty of material to trade (from other groups, of course). ***************************** Lane Kelly lkelly@infi.net ***************************** ------------------------------ From: "John F. Whitehead" Subject: Re: sweet spot Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:01:33 -0700 Mark McHarg wrote: > This is not always true. The best place is usually where you > can pick up sound from the on-stage amps / monitors. no! this will most likely be a crapshoot. the ambient noise changes as you move around the stage. a musician may need to have certain parts of their mix louder depending on their proximity to the other musicians or personal preference. you may end up pointing the mics straight at a guitar or bass amp. and as seth said what about the vocals? > A typical sound chain is > instrument > amp > monitor > microphone > mixer > amp > PA no! there are many chains operating in parallel. an example might be: guitar: stage ambient: guitar > amp > speaker house mix: guitar > amp > microphone > house mixer > amp > pa monitor mix: guitar > direct to monitor mixer > amp > monitors bass guitar or keyboards: stage ambient: instrument > amp > speaker house mix: instrument > direct to house mixer > amp > pa monitor mix: instrument > direct to monitor mixer > amp > monitors drums: stage ambient: instrument house mix: instrument > microphone > house mixer > amp > pa monitor mix: instrument > microphone > monitor mixer > amp > monitors vocals: stage ambient: none house mix: voice > microphone > house mixer > amp > pa monitor mix: voice > microphone > monitor mixer > amp > monitors so the only signal that is given uniform treatment and attention is the pa mix. the onstage and monitor mixes are changing constantly according to the needs of the performers and differ at each location on stage, not to mention the anti-feedback-equalization done to the onstage signals. even the p.a. mix (direct soundboard) is not perfect, because it is compensating for the ambient noise on stage and the sound of the room. particularly in small rooms, soundboard tapes will overcompensate the vocals and undercompensate the bass guitar. that's why a mediocre audience tape sometimes sounds better than a "perfect" soundboard tape -- it is more "complete". -- john f whitehead jfw@well.com ------------------------------ From: "John F. Whitehead" Subject: Re: ISO: Side Trips (Garcia, Kahn) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 11:12:28 -0700 Stuart Gerber wrote: > My buddy had an analog of a side group of Garcia's called Side Trips and it > was AWESOME! this was a commercial release, volume 1 of a yet-to-be-continued series. it's howard wales/jerry garcia/john kahn/bill vitt. http://www.dead.net/merchandising/music/jerry_garcia/4061/indexs.html order from the store at http://www.dead.net/ -- john f whitehead jfw@well.com ------------------------------ From: Stuart Gerber Subject: Ignore Side Trip ISO Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:22:32 -0400 Just wanted to say thanks for those who emailed me already regarding the Side Trips thing. I didnt realize it was a GD Records release. Looks like ill make a purchase soon as i get paid thanks again, stuart ------------------------------ From: BenHarperTrades@aol.com Subject: Ben Harper DAT/CDR Wishlist Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:22:23 EDT Hello everybody, First of all thanks for making the DAT Digest the way it is. Always technically interesting. I'm looking for any copy of the following Ben Harper (& the Innocent Criminals) recordings : - 02/27/95 Club Quattro, Osaka, Japan (86min) - 10/05/95 Mackey Arena, Boulder, CO (50min) - 06/08/96 Saratoga, NY (45min) - 06/21/97 Philly, PA (98min) - 07/04/97 Toronto, Canada (45min) - 07/09/97 Cabaret Metro, Chicago (108min) - 01/17/98 Sydney, Australia (115min) I'm not looking for recordings that have any analog generation. Let me know please. I have many rare stuff to trade (not only Ben Harper). Thank you all. I hope to get news from you. fb ------------------------------ From: ZepMan@aol.com Subject: Phil Tour Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:29:10 EDT For you all seeing Phil Last night he played 2 sets which fit snugly on a 90m or 2 60's if that's your bag Marc 2 copies up for grabs from the TS with MK4's ------------------------------ From: Len Moskowitz Subject: Re:Phantom Power Supply Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 15:17:23 -0400 (EDT) "Mark Baldwin" wrote: > ...Anyways I was > wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of an affordable phantom > power supply if I do purchase these. You might try the Rolls PB-224: two channels of phantom power, one 9 Volt battery, around $70. (See http://www.rolls.com for details.) Len Moskowitz Binaural and StealthMics (tm), Cables, Interfaces Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com Teaneck, New Jersey http://www.core-sound.com moskowit@core-sound.com Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912 ------------------------------ From: gthrush@du.edu Subject: ATTENTION: JAMIE LUTCH Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:18:45 -0600 (MDT) Please e-mail me at gthrush@du.edu I lost your e-mail address. ------------------------------ From: "Justin Trinkes" Subject: AKG 480/ck61 and PS-2 power supply Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 15:38:46 -0400 Recently i have noticed that one channel with have a much lower level then the other. My setup is AKG 480/ck61 > XLR cables > PS-2 power supply > XLR-stereo min > D8. I have switched the XLR cables and that didnt help. If i switch the mic cables into the PS-2 the levels will change sides. I have tested all the cables, PS-2, and mic bodies with a volt meter. They all seemed fine. I dont know what the voltage should be, but everything matched up, nothing was off. Any ideas what it could be? Is there anything else i should test? Could my dat be going crazy and need repart/cleaning. Thanks for you help. justin ------------------------------ From: Len Moskowitz Subject: Re: Core Sound HEBs and Zifero InBox Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 15:45:17 -0400 (EDT) "Ryan Haskell" wrote: > ...I'm thinking about upgrading to a pair of HEB's, and maybe adding > the Zifero InBox to the mix as well. I'd be using the setup to record > a wide variety of material, from Slayer (as loud as it gets) to George > Winston (as soft as it gets.) My primary deck is a D8. What do you > guys think of this package? You might say that I'm biased, but I can choose any mics and pre-amps that are out there, and when I want to use a small recording setup, I use the HEBs into an InBox/AD-20 into a Sony PCM-M1. I drop out the InBox when I must, but the loss is heard and felt. Last week I recorded a large choir (75 voices) and, as is my practice, I recorded on two rigs simultaneously. The first was a set of Bruel & Kjaer 4145 (1-inch condensor mics running on 200 Volts -- I consider these to be perhaps the best sounding omni mics in the world, approached only by the DPA 4003/4006) into a PCM-M1 through n 11 dB attenuator. the second was a set of HEBs (4060s) into an InBox into a -D8. (The -D8 served only as a transport -- its front end was not used at all.) The result was interesting. The 4145s go down to below 5 Hz so, as usual, their subsonics and presence were more realistic, but in the common hearing range (above 20 Hz), the HEBs/InBox were more pleasant and more transparent, with more air. Normally the 4145 are slightly airier, so I attribute the effect to the InBox. > ... Which should I choose, the 4060's or the 4061's? The deciding factor here is the SPLs the mics will face. Since you want to record an *extremely* loud band, that would select the 4061 rather than the 4060. The trade-off is a few dB in self-noise, inconsequential in a live recording situation and a higher pre-amp gain setting when recording quiet sounds (also adding tiny bit more noise). I hope this helped! Len Moskowitz Binaural and StealthMics (tm), Cables, Interfaces Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com Teaneck, New Jersey http://www.core-sound.com moskowit@core-sound.com Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912 ------------------------------ From: Drew Subject: ISO U2 at Continental arena NJ Reply-To: drewc.atc@verizon.net Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 15:58:43 -0400 I am looking for copies of the U2 shows from NJ at the Continental Airlines Arena. Please let me know if you can help. My list is linked below. Drew http://www.geocities.com/drewcatc/index.html ------------------------------ From: "Michael Ryan" Subject: slow but steady... Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:19:03 -0700 hey now all, i will be slow but steady on any trades/b+p s i have taken on. they have to do some skin grafts and some bone work in the wrist and elbow as, tho, i may have a super ego the outer shell is made of inferior material. looking at the good side of this, maybe i can work with one of the better mic company's and have them implant some killer mics in my fingers for real stealth situations... again for those of you waiting for me, i will be adding some really cool shit to your package and then if you are a generous person, you may offer it up to the digest.. peace, michael ps anybody need a '99 taurus for parts? %^} ------------------------------ From: Jason Neely Subject: patching Reply-To: bondibox@bellsouth.net Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:38:23 -0400 Hey now, I had a pretty good taping experience last night on my first time out. Someone asked me for any lessons learned, and I figure I ought to post it to the group and hopefully get some questions answered too. First, bring every cable and adapter you own. Make sure they're the right ones. I brought 3 sets of cables, but ended up using a very simple RCA --> miniplug. Actually I had to go home for the right one, because I grabbed one with a female RCA end. Which brings me to: Every patch on a soundboard is a female socket. Don't bring cables without male plugs unless you have double male ended adaptors. A (2) mono into (1) stereo 14" Y adapter is essential too. Bring batteries, lots of batteries. I even went back home for the AC adaptor because an outlet was available. Grab an entire setup with power strip, etc. and only bring the necessities into the show. You never know, after talking to the soundman you could end up kicking yourself that you don't have 20' XLR cables and a power adapter out in the car. Tape is cheap. Need I say more? Analog chains aren't so good, because you are at the mercy of everyone in between. You only get a signal when record or record-pause is engaged. So if someone ahead of you needs to change tapes, you will be out of a signal. Also, every time they adjust their levels it affects you. At worst, it can send you over the 0db mark. At the least it makes your levels inconsistent. Once you have the levels set, don't mess with them during the show, unless it's brickwalling. Fiddling with the meter trying to get a -4db or -2db peak is unnecessary. If they're a little low (only hitting the circled -12 db mark), leave them alone. The worst that happens is you lose dynamic range (probably negligible with this strong a signal). I will make the 1st person in an analog chain vow not to touch his levels in the future. If you're part of a digital chain, you'll need a 7-pin into a coax Y cable. The idea there is that the digital chain runs down the coax, in one top of the Y and out the other. The 7-pin part of it is an offshoot of the coax and it hooks your deck to the chain, sort of like a 10Base5 vampire clip. A 7-pin to 7-pin will work, but then it would terminate the chain. I would lilke some info on this subject, as I only got to see the cable for a second; it looked like a male-male coax would connect in between each Y adapter. Also, I've seen coax -> 7pin and 7pin-> coax adapters, depending on the direction of the clone. I would think in this instance one would need the coax --> 7pin cable. The benefit of a digital chain is that any machine along the line can die and the chain will not be affected. The signal is not affected by anyone's record levels either. One question lingering is whether the 1st person on a digital chain would affect the analog signal coming in. Do the same laws ruling a digital chain apply to the unit that converts the original analog signal? i.e. what if _they_ adjust their levels or disengage record? Since it's a digital out, it probably passes any circuitry, right? Of course, that's the one machine that needs strong batteries... Finally, make an equipment list. Check it when you leave home and when you leave the show. -jas ------------------------------ From: Jason Neely Subject: Re: patching Reply-To: bondibox@bellsouth.net Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:40:30 -0400 >> A (2) mono into (1) stereo 14" Y adapter is essential too. I mean, a 1/4" Y adapter ------------------------------ From: "liverich@sunlink.net" Subject: ISO: Brand new HHB CD-R 800 Reply-To: liverich@sunlink.net Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:43:32 -0400 Anyone have a line or know of any dealers? Rich ------------------------------ From: "Chris Mescia" Subject: ISO: Trey Taper's tix for deer creek Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:55:14 -0400 Hey now! I was given lawn seats from the mail order service....I would love to get a taper's ticket to get my rig in. I would be glad to swap my lawn seat, give a patch from my rig (I will be running Neuman 140's -> SoundDevice MP-2 with hopefully an 8-10 ft spread on two stands from the section), offer cd's or dats or .shn's afterwards....whatever it takes. All I need is one ticket. If you don't need that show, I can offer a different one from my list (~3500+hrs of jazz/funk/jamband/rock) Come on....someone got a pair of tickets and only needs to use one of them....I know you are out there ;^) peace, Chris Mescia ------------------------------ From: Jeff Lester Subject: Re: ISO: Side Trips (Garcia, Kahn) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 15:32:47 -0700 (PDT) Stuart Gerber asked: >My buddy had an analog of a side group of Garcia's called Side Trips and it >was AWESOME! > >I would love to get ahold of any and all Side Trip shows that may be out >there.. be it on DAT or CD.. i will be more than happy to do either "Side Trips" is not the name of a group, it is the name of a commercially released album from Grateful Dead Records. You can check it out at dead.net under the Online Store/Music/Garcia section. -Jeff Lester ------------------------------ From: Dimar Subject: ISO: P+Fs L.A. 6-27-01 Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:19:32 -0700 (PDT) SSIA! Tons to trade! http://www.webspawner.com/users/dats take a look see ===== Thanks Dave Dimartino 18344 Amie Ave House A Torrance,Ca.90504 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Tom Cavanaugh Subject: Uriah Heep Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 20:33:45 -0400 Hello Heads: Heep are playing at a place called Tinks in Scranton PA. on Tues. July 24. Does anybody know the layout of this club and the ease or dis-ease of stealth recording there? Thanks Tom ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** To unsubscribe from this digest, please send email to dat-heads-unsubscribe@datheads.phish.net If your email address has changed, you may (optionally) send the message to dat-heads-unsubscribe-oldaddress=olddomain@datheads.phish.net and the old address will be removed. 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