DAT-heads Digest #964, Volume #5 Sat, 14 Jul 01 12:50:01 EDT Contents: Nakamichi CM 300 info: ("Ryan McDaniel") Question about extra info recorded on CDs and upload offer (joe anthony Najera) Trey tapers ticket for merriweather (John.Stanfield@furman.edu) did you have this address (<880105f6@bellsouthips.com>) (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?L_Se=E1n_Kennedy?=) nak shotgun (Eliot Byron) Re: HELP - recording advice (Tom McGee) G3 ("Slipkid") Old & In THe Way taping policy? (Delano) HELP - recording advice (Jason Neely) Spoon taping policy? (Dave C) re:mic placements mounts (long) (Jay Lyons) Re: HELP - recording advice (acffhmorst) ISO tapers in Belgium, Netherlands, France, Switzerland (Hanno Bunjes) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ryan McDaniel" Subject: Nakamichi CM 300 info: Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:05:31 -0700 I did some research on this mic since I recently bought just one (it's all = the seller had). A web search and a search through the digest archives = will get you limited info. So here's some info on this discontinued mic = that I tracked down: Replacement battery: Eveready 206 One digest noted that these mics are very similar to TEAC ME-120s. The = capsules are apparently interchangeable. The number for the Nakamichi office in the US is (310) 631 2122 - fax is = 631-3129 Armando the parts guy can fax you a copy of the user manual which is (2) 8 = 1/2X11 sheets. This document tells you some pretty cool things if you = don't have any info on the mic. Here are some highlights: The positive terminal of the battery faces the front end of the mic. The small body between the capsule and the main body of the mic is the = attenuator housing. Unscrew the housing to reveal a rotational lever. = This lever can be rotated clockwise over a piece of metal to connect the = -10dB pad or counter-clock wise to remain inactive. The unlabeled roll-off switch has three settings: Toward the front (capsule side) is the low-cut setting - the response = curve shows the roll-off as pretty steep starting at about 300 Hz. = However, the specifications say: Low Cut -10dB/100Hz Toward the back is the 'off' position the middle position is for flat a response. Capsules: CP-1 Cardioid CP-2 Omni-directional CP-3 Super omni-directional pinpoint CP-4 Super-directional shotgun For full specs, call Armando and get those spec sheets. Hope this helps = some Nak owners with limited info. ------------------------------ From: joe anthony Najera Subject: Question about extra info recorded on CDs and upload offer Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:17:50 -0700 Sorry for the cross-post... I'm wondering about this: When a piece of software (Nero, for instance) records a data CD on a Plextor drive, is there any information about the software or the drive recorded on the disc? I'm in a position where it may help to be able to prove that I burned a CD on one computer and not on another... is there any way I can do this? Upload offer: I'll upload the Living Daylights show from 7/10/2001 at the Palms Playhouse, Davis, CA... SBD > Tascam DAP1, converted via SEK'D Prodif Plus. No resampling involved, recorded at 44.1KHz. I'd prefer to upload to a server, or a person that will be able to spread the music. What a great set! Thanks :) joe joe "Papa Bear" Najera ================================ Live Music Archival on DAT and CD dmbandfan1@juno.com, jnajera@unexmail.ucdavis.edu, JANajera@aol.com http://najera.dyndns.org "Without beer, prohibition just doesn't work." - Homer J. Simpson ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ From: John.Stanfield@furman.edu Subject: Trey tapers ticket for merriweather Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:30:02 -0400 Shabbot shalom! If anyone has an extra tapers ticket to the show on the 28th in md., or would be willing to carry my rig in(less likely), please get in touch. Thanks, ~Js ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ John Stanfield Email: John.Stanfield@furman.edu Web: http://www.furman.edu/~jstanfie AIM: JohnLStanfield ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ------------------------------ From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?L_Se=E1n_Kennedy?= Subject: did you have this address (<880105f6@bellsouthips.com>) Reply-To: Sean Kennedy Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:37:34 -0400 Hi, For every digest that goes out, I personally get a bounce from this address. It does not follow the Internet mail standards... and when I track it down, it seems the following might be the case - that was a mobile/pager email address - some other address on the list seems to be generating "new email" alerts to that address and they bounce (it doesn't seem like just forwarding), but maybe not sending the digest - it and other associated domains (imcingular.com,alert.com, AOL (IM?) stuff) are not directly on the list The tokens that the digest includes about who it was sent to are not in this message, so I so not have any where to go. If this is you please fix the problem or let me know. Sean ------------------------------ From: Eliot Byron Subject: nak shotgun Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:52:18 +0000 a friend needs one nak shotgun let me know eliot ------------------------------ From: Tom McGee Subject: Re: HELP - recording advice Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 21:28:36 -0400 -- There are no default best locations that always work. The only real answer is to find the spot where it sounds sweet to your ears. Last weekend I did some recording at the New Bedford, MA Summerfest and even when one act immediately followed another using the same equipment, soundman, and everything else, I had to move around to improve what I was hearing. The one time I had an excellent location for a group I wanted to hear, I gave it up in favor of taking a seat. The change in sound seemed subtle at the time -- the tape will always tell me I should have stayed put. From: "Ryan :-<>" Subject: HELP - recording advice Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 19:32:52 -0400 My question deals with where to position yourself at the show...the ideal spot to record the sound coming from the stage. It has been suggested to me to be near the soundboard because that's where you will get the nice stereo sound. My thinking is that the recorder already records in stereo and also I think the closer I am to the PA stacks, the better. So, is it best to just stay back near the board, or, if you're at a venue where the PA stacks on the stage are kinda low to the ground, get up close to one of the stacks(like maybe 10 feet away or so)...? ------------------------------ From: "Slipkid" Subject: G3 Reply-To: "Slipkid" Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 22:36:24 -0400 i taped G3 (petrucci / vai / satriani) last night at the keswick theatre (sonic studio DSM6 --> d100 from 3rd row center) and am looking to trade the gig for other shows on this tour, especially for those recently on the west coast with special guests like paul gilbert / steve lukather (wiltern theater?) last night petrucci played about 45 minutes, vai about 50 minutes, and satch only about 40 minutes..the G3 jam at the end was also cut short, only three songs instead of usual four :-( since satch only played 40 minutes last night, and they only did three jam songs at the end because of a venue curfew and delay in getting his set started, i am eager to get at least one other show from this tour where satch plays longer any G3 tapers that want to trade drop me a line, thanks, - jon - slipkid@voicenet.com ------------------------------ From: Delano Subject: Old & In THe Way taping policy? Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 01:21:01 -0400 What is the taping policy for Old & In The Way with Vassar, Grisman, & Rowan? They will be in town Saturday night & I would like to tape them. Take Care, Delano http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Center/3834/index.htm ------------------------------ From: Jason Neely Subject: HELP - recording advice Reply-To: bondibox@bellsouth.net Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 01:29:19 -0400 This was a topic a few weeks ago, and since then I've been able to form a few opinions of my own. Ideally, the best sound is at the soundboard. You get seperation, dynamic range, it's loud without being overwhelming. It also happens to be about as close as you can be while still holding a conversation :-\ So most people would suggest going in front of the board. While it can come out crisper, more like a board recording, you will lose presence and room acoustics. I'm not sure about small indoor shows, but most of the shows I tape are outdoor shows, where the PA mix is identical between left and right. My favorite place is between the board and the stack, about 30 feet from the stage. Any closer and my little SP mics would overload. Any farther back and I'd get to hear the yappers. The deciding factor is in the mics. Mine aren't very robust, but they make up for it by being hyper-cardiod, so I can get away with being a few feet farther away than most would prefer. One show that turned out interesting was an in-house performance at a record store. I couldn't find a place DFC, so I was off to the left by a foot or two. To make up for this, I took a few steps forward and I was able to pick up the monitors from the stage. So the left channel picks up the PA, and the right channel mostly gets the bass from the stage monitor. I'd say the worst aspect is the mix is a little off, and presence is missing. Certainly it wasn't the best set up, but an interesting go around. The tape sounds great, btw. -jas > My question deals with where to position yourself at the show...the ideal > spot to record the sound coming from the stage. It has been suggested to me > to be near the soundboard because that's where you will get the nice stereo > sound. My thinking is that the recorder already records in stereo and also > I think the closer I am to the PA stacks, the better. So, is it best to > just stay back near the board, or, if you're at a venue where the PA stacks > on the stage are kinda low to the ground, get up close to one of the > stacks(like maybe 10 feet away or so)...? ------------------------------ From: Dave C Subject: Spoon taping policy? Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 00:31:42 -0700 Greetings... Anyone have any further experience with taping Spoon, beyond the very terse entry in the BTAT list? Thanks.... ------------------------------ From: Jay Lyons Subject: re:mic placements mounts (long) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 11:05:03 -0400 Hi, you asked: > >From: Richard Davis Subject: Mic Mounting in Venues I am in search of advice for various mounting techniques, ie: how do you put threads in a ceiling/railing/beam - what method works best to hang/suspend mics from high ceilings (ie: metal poles, cables). > > All I can do is offer what I lend to a taper bud of mine,.. I work in the film/video biz and have a bunch of adaptors/mounts that I can lend him (no, NOT for sale) So allow me to show you some pro stuff that us big boys use for quick/secure mounts. Understand that some can be pricey but given the trend of what we spend on our rigs anyway,.. what's the dif. Web site;http://www.msegrip.com/ recently went thru a name change, it was Matthews Studio Equip and no I don't work for them. Fact is I free lance. Some of these devices (most) end in a 5/8" stud which is what you usually can mount your mic clip to but you should check and see what your size really is. Also, I believe they have a threaded stud that will allow you to screw the mic clip to it tho, again you should check to see about the mating. Pls understand that this is production gear and yes, they do have to deal with soundmen so you might be pleasantly surprised as to what's avail. Just ask! ,.. should you call these folks and let them know it's for a mic they should be able to help you considerably. Be alert to the fact that if you are NOT in Hollywood there is most likely a supply store in some of the major markets that have pro gear near you ie,. New York, Chicago, Atlanta, Miami etc. Look for something to do with film/video production in the yellow pages or even try calling your town Mayor. They most likely will have a city/state film bureau with listings ;) Trust me, everyone wants a motion pic to come to their town(sic) If you look around in the Mounting Equipment & Hardware you can find some of the most used items such as,...(from their catalog online) Matthellini Clamp - 3" Center Jaw =20 catalog #: 420101 US List Price $59.00 category: Mounting Equipment & Hardware =20 weight: 1.5 lbs. =20 Provides strong, solid gripping of round, square, or rectangular tubing and many other common and irregular shapes. Essentially the same design as the Cardellini. The differences are: A new ergonomic handle design, reinforced jaws, and the shaft is 1010 chrome plated steel. Available with 2=94 or 3=94 Center Jaw or 2=94 End Jaw. The Center Jaw has a fixed jaw mounted at the base of the Baby Pin portion of the shaft providing strong support for the pin. The End Jaw has the fixed jaw mounted at the end of the threaded portion of the shaft. Superior in tight places! =20 ========= This would not be the only item of this type/use. Look at items such as the Gaffer Grip, Baby Side Arm, Baby Grid Clamp, Baby Pipe Hangar, Mini Matthellini, Drop Ceiling Scissor Clamps, 2 1/2" Grip Head. Notice the over-use of the term 'baby' in the above. It denotes a specific size so pls don't just throw the term away. Stay away from anything that mentions the term 'junior' since it will NOT be the proper size and be way to big for your needs. In the above ex. I would use the 3" Matthellini clamp to go to the rail in the balcony and on the pin I would extend that out a bit just so I have room to maneuver the mic into place by using a 2 1/2" Grip head to adjoin at the stud. This grip head allows full movement in all angles of tilt, pitch, yawl so you can place the mic exactly as you see fit. Then in the Grip Head I'd place a threaded pin and screw my mic clip into this.=20 So for right around $100.00 +- I'd have a pro-quality mic mount and would NOT worry about anything other than getting caught. Course, something this obvious I'd be taping a friendly band, right? Oh, and while I'm already long and here making a point allow me to show what I use as a outdoor mic stand. Expensive but very durable and I've hardly ever been concerned about knock over. Beefy Baby=AE =97 Triple Riser-Steel- Footprint: 62" Min. Height: 45" Max. Height: 138" Load Capacity: 20 lbs. =20 catalog #: 386049 US List Price $247.00 Baby Stands =20 weight: 17 lbs. =20 With Rocky Mountain Leg for easy leveling on uneven terrain. This heavy duty, rugged stand will withstand the rigors of location shooting. Made with square tubular legs for additional strength. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D HTH or at least gives you some ideas. =20 ------------------------------ From: acffhmorst Subject: Re: HELP - recording advice Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 11:22:40 -0500 The content of the audio which comes out the speakers is similar to a soundboard feed, in that instruments which are loud on stage do not have to be added to the mix very much, such as guitar, drums and bass, while instruments without a loud natural sound are mixed in more heavily- Vocals, Electronic keyboards and drum machines, and the effects. . . In order to properly record the best sound at a given live show, one will probably want to position stereo (or surround!) microphones somewhere very near the center line from the stage. To estimate the distance back from the source, consider the width of the PA system's speaker arrangement. In a wider spread (panic!!!), the best sound is found further back, if the show takes place in a tiny room, the sound will be most optimal for recording quite close to the stage. A nice heuristic (a fancy word which means rule-of-thumb) for determining the distance back is to divide the width between the high-frequency speakers in half, and then that is your approximate distance back from the source to the sweet spot. Some productions will be very loud on stage. If you are too close to the stage, some particular instrument might jump out of the mix and blow you away. If you are recording quiet acoustic music, or classical, comedy or speech, you will probably want to be front-row-center, or maybe the first five rows, otherwise the sound of applause will probably drown out the source consistantly. This is a good opportunity to try taping from on-stage, if the artist will allow it. As long as the stage has a complete sound which contains all the part of the show, there is a good chance that a well-recorded stage tape will be of excellent quality. If a band only had some instruments and not others loud in the stage monitors, then the stage tape would not be the way to go. As for taping from one side or the other close to a single PA stack, I would presume that most of the stereo information on your tape would have to be from acoustic reflections and crowd noise, and that the music would be mostly monaural. A neat solution to this would be to place one mic in front of each side of the PA system, and run "spaced omni" in which a non-directional mic pair is run with a substantial distance between the capsules. Stereo effect is then achieved by having one mic closer to each sound source. Going near the soundboard, you will get a close-to-ideal sound under good circumstances. If you are in front of the board, you will pick up a little more of the direct sound from the stage instruments. Farther back, the PA system may tend to carry better than the stage sound, so it could be a more complete mix back behind the board. Also, audible bass frequencies do not develop until you are a half-wavelength away from the sound source. I found this interesting page by professor Peter Elsea At UCSC: http://arts.ucsc.edu/EMS/Music/tech_background/TE-20/teces_20.html#IV. It's not particularly oriented towards one type of recording, but Elsea has a strong background in classical electronic music, I found it interesting. Anyway, some good advice from Elsea's page is: "The trick is to record everything that will sit still and make noise, and study the results: learn to hear when the mic is placed badly and what to do about it. When you know all you can about your mics, buy a different pair and learn those. Occasionally, you will get the opportunity to borrow mics. If possible, set them up right alongside yours and make two recordings at once. It will not be long before you will know how to make consistently excellent recordings under most conditions." It's not rocket science, but it gets pretty involved!!! good luck, comments and flames encouraged!!! acffhmorST!!! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- also, Dave C asked: . . . I was wondering how much post-production traders consider "acceptable"? Is compression always a no-no? How about knocking down the mild clipping during applause? And the hard-core clipping from the connector problems? I'm using CoolEdit 2000 at the moment, and am thinking about purchasing the cleanup and tweak (for limiting) plugins. And I would say that good location can nip much of this trouble right in the bud, and that if you tape a lot, heavy post-production will get you very behind, it's much more straightforward to get it right the first time, 'course that takes a lot of practice and trial/error- OOh the paradox! -t -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > From: "Ryan :-<>" > Subject: HELP - recording advice > Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 19:32:52 -0400 > > My question deals with where to position yourself at the show...the > ideal > spot to record the sound coming from the stage. It has been suggested > to me > to be near the soundboard because that's where you will get the nice > stereo > sound. My thinking is that the recorder already records in stereo and > also > I think the closer I am to the PA stacks, the better. So, is it best to > just stay back near the board, or, if you're at a venue where the PA > stacks > on the stage are kinda low to the ground, get up close to one of the > stacks(like maybe 10 feet away or so)...? > > Just wonderin'. Thanks! > > Ryan -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ From: Hanno Bunjes Subject: ISO tapers in Belgium, Netherlands, France, Switzerland Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 18:56:12 +0200 DAAU will be on tour in these countries for pretty much the rest of the year, and the shows are simply stunning. You can browse the exact dates & venues at http://www.yurk.net/daau . If you can record any of these shows I will gladly pay for your ticket and a beer ;) much to trade, DAAU and others. Even if you can't record, *be there*!! :) h. -- ========================= Hanno hanno.bunjes@gmx.de http://www.yurk.net ========================= ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** To unsubscribe from this digest, please send email to dat-heads-unsubscribe@datheads.phish.net If your email address has changed, you may (optionally) send the message to dat-heads-unsubscribe-oldaddress=olddomain@datheads.phish.net and the old address will be removed. Problems or questions about a subscription should be addressed via these avenues and then if needed to dat-heads-owner@datheads.phish.net or postmaster@datheads.phish.net never the list itself You can submit a message for inclusion in the next digest via this address: Internet: dat-heads@datheads.phish.net Archives of DAT-Heads digests and related files are available on the DAT-Heads home page: http://www.solorb.com/dat-heads/ End of DAT-Heads Digest ******************************