DAT-heads Digest #46
Contents:
peace on earth (hambone@javanet.com)
ISO Bruce Cockburn 1977 Performances (JH)
Re: 96K Hoopla (Tom McGee)
Audiophile 2496 for Win2k (Brad Wiseman)
preamps and archiving (Aaron Taylor)
mb20 show (sec1968@ezl.com)
Re: peace on earth (Sean Kennedy)
Re: High sampling rates (Benjamin Cho)
More 96K Hoopla (-bob)
Weezer (JHParkin@aol.com)
ISO: Gene ("Mike Hooker")
Re: 96K Hoopla (Will Wilson)
Re: 96K Hoopla (Seth Breidbart)
ISO : GUESS WHO & JOE COCKER WALLINGFORD CT ("Steve Hussong")
From: hambone@javanet.com
Subject: peace on earth
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 07:31:58 -0400
i wish you'd all stop chatting about your pcs
and trades and focus on the horror
at our door
lets pull together and send good thoughts to those in need
it seems so selfish to be chatting about disc and dat
when thousands of people have died innocently
not to mention the impending war which is ahead of us
lets use this forum to have like minded people
chat and express sorrow or stories of those who have past on
i hope you dont find me too extreme here
i know many tapers are obsessed
i too am obsessed but have had a hard time
just moving on
sorry
and be well
d2
From: JH <kc7fys@pro-ns.net>
Subject: ISO Bruce Cockburn 1977 Performances
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 08:39:28 -0600
I am seeking the following on any format. Bruce cockburn visited
Japan--and I bet they were broadcast on FM, at least one of them... but
maybe it's not circulated.
07/01/77 Toshi Center, Tokyo, Japan Audience90 B-
07/01/77 Toshi Center, Tokyo, Japan, Part 1 Audience90 C
07/01/77 Toshi Center, Tokyo, Japan, Part 2 Audience45 C
07/09/77 Toshi Center, Tokyo, Japan Audience90 B-
07/09/77 Toshi Center, Tokyo, Japan, Part 1 Audience 90 C
07/09/77 Toshi Center, Tokyo, Japan, Part 2 Audience45 C
Jonathan
From: Tom McGee <tfm@110.net>
Subject: Re: 96K Hoopla
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 10:49:40 -0400
--
Gary Davis sez:
"Higher sampling rates are a scam to sell tons of new equipment,
more media, and sadly, render DAT tape obsolete."
Tape is fickle, fragile, and unreliable. The transfer time for
processing is a real-time event I can do without and I won't mourn
tape's passing.
Sampling rate is only one of many factors that determine the quality
of sound. All else being equal, higher sampling rate is usually
better. It's easier to hear the improvement on recordings of acoustic
sounds.
"Going beyond 16 bits is a touch more controversial. It does give
you more dynamic range, but especially for live recordings, you
would never have any sound quiet enough to take advantage of bits
17-24. On the other hand, some people claim that lowering
distortion in very soft sounds is beneficial. I don't really buy that
either."
For live shows, what you say is true. For spoken word or other
acoustic sounds, 16 bits doesn't give you enough to work with. If you
have to process this type of recording afterwards, you quickly run
into quantizing noise and other audible artifacts.
-t
From: Brad Wiseman <wiseman@redhawkaig.com>
Subject: Audiophile 2496 for Win2k
Reply-To: Brad Wiseman <wiseman@redhawkaig.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 10:39:58 -0700
Doug,
I tried to reply offlist, but your email bounced.
I've got the same driver as you, though I did not have the interrupt
sharing problem. The problem that persists for me is that there is
no way to OUTPUT the S/PDIF from the computer. I can input to the
computer just fine... always have been able to. If you read
M-Audio's notes in the Windows 2000 part of the table on their
download page, you will find that they do claim only 16-bit input
with Windows 2000. I did not realize at the time that this means
only 16 bit AND only input. I thought they meant that you only get
16 bit input, which is fine for my purposes. I did not know that the
same sentence also indicates that you can't produce S/PDIF output
from a wav file.
If anyone claims to be able to output on the S/PDIF interface from a
wav file using Windows 2000 with an Audiophile 2496, please let me
know. I'm very interested in making this work.
--
Regards,
Brad Wiseman mailto:wiseman@redhawkaig.com
> From: "Doug Nawrocki" <dnawrocki@cinci.rr.com>
> Subject: Audiophile for Win2k
> Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2001 06:31:11 -0400
> Hey Brad and All,
> I have Winblows2000 and it did take me using the new drivers, which
> Delta has had out for the last 3 months now, to get it to work. The driver
> revision is 5.12.1.20. If you're not using that one, it is available at
> MAudio/Midiman's website. You need to totally remove the existence of any
> current driver and even change the PCI slot prior to installing the new
> driver, MAudio also has a file on the site that will get any existing driver
> off there.
> The driver issue wasn't the only issue I had to resolve with the
> Audiophile and Win2k. Win2k has a pretty bad habit of sharing mass devices
> IRQ 9. I have Roadrunner as my Internet Provider and since the Code Red
> virus they have been pinging everyone's modem, here in Cincy, continuously.
> I was getting pops in my transferred stuff and guessed it everything from
> the card to my DA-P1 to the Sony DG's I switched to. I contacted MAudio and
> they suggested I switch from "ACPI Mode" to "Standard PC Mode." This was
> kinda scary to me 'cause he said it could make the OS go south, it didn't. I
> had to reinstall a few drivers, make sure if you're gonna attempt this you
> have all your drivers present. This solved the problem of the pops,
> apparently the constant pinging was accompanied by regular port scans and
> all that activity on the same IRQ was creating the pops. If you are having
> this issue with the Audiophile and Win2k, contact MAudio's tech support, and
> plan on holding forever, and they will give you instructions on how to
> resolve it. I spoke with David Muniz there, he seemed pretty knowledgeable,
> and he said he's had to walk people through this tons of times.
> The Delta Audiophile for Windows2k is a great choice, IMHO, if you have
> the time and patience to work out the bugs...
> Peace,
> Doug
From: Aaron Taylor <att9@nc.rr.com>
Subject: preamps and archiving
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 11:50:38 -0400
I'm looking into preamps for a multitrack recording.I'm interested in the
Presonus digimax.Does anybody have any other suggestions in that quality and
price range.Perhaps three seperate two channell preamps.
Also I have been recomended an external hardrive to store the 6 to 8 track
recording made with the Roland VSR-880.Glyph 18 gig 10,000 rpm Cheetah
drive.I'm looking for a cheeper option.Any suggestions.Thanks.
-Aaron
From: sec1968@ezl.com
Subject: mb20 show
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 13:31:14 -0500
Hi all. I was able to get a very nice recording of the entire performances by Pete Yorn,
Train & Matchbox Twenty last night in St. Louis. This was the first performance for all since
the events on tuesday, and all 3 artists make mention of this in their shows, which gives this a
little historical value. If anyone has any other Train & Matchbox from the current tour on dat to
trade, please drop me a line. Thanks.
shane
My home page http://www.ezl.com/~sec1968/
sec1968@ezl.com (home, ASP, Toad & Train)
icq# - 46591859
shane.calhoon@anheuser-busch.com (work)
314-865-9187 (work)
check out my friends The Stubblefield Band.
http://www.stubblefieldband.com
From: Sean Kennedy <liam@xo.com>
Subject: Re: peace on earth
Reply-To: Sean Kennedy <liam@fedney.tech.xo.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 14:50:14 -0400
--On Sunday, September 16, 2001 7:31 AM -0400 "hambone@javanet.com"
<hambone@javanet.com> wrote:
> i wish you'd all stop chatting about your pcs
> and trades and focus on the horror
> at our door
>
> lets pull together and send good thoughts to those in need
Hi,
I certainly share your overall sentiment and shock
about what has gone on in the past week, I do
not really agree with dat-heads becoming the
peace on earth/terrorism forum to the exclusion
of other topics.
Different people deal with grief in different
ways. There are people on this list who were/are in
the middle of the horror and perhaps this is an
escape for them. And at least in the US it is
pretty hard to get away from any of the media
coverage which is constant on TV and in any public
building (cafe, bar, business).
My personal feeling is that organizing in your
community is generally more successful than
on the Internet. I attended a vigil on Tuesday
and have spent a lot of time with my family. Both
of those were particularly important and much more
satisfying than communicating online. In
the next week or so the Red Cross would like
people to donate blood again (especially if you
have type O blood). If this event moves you,
there are a lot of peaceful ways to get involved.
> lets use this forum to have like minded people
> chat and express sorrow or stories of those who have past on
I think this is fine and anything that you can say that
helps you is good. However, if others would like to
discuss DAT and sound cards (...), we should welcome
that too. Thanks for bringing your concerns up (seriously!)
-- I have tried to give them full consideration, but just
have a different opinion and I hope you understand that.
Sean
From: Benjamin Cho <bcho420@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: High sampling rates
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 12:37:51 -0700 (PDT)
Just wanted to add my thoughts to Gary's comments...
> From: "Gary Davis" <gdavis@loop.com>
> Subject: Re: 96K Hoopla
>
> There is no scientific evidence that people can hear
> frequencies
> higher than a 48K or even 44.1K recorder can
> capture. (Ie, approx
> 22KHz and 20Khz respectively, with the low-pass
> filtering).
>
Yes you are right in that 99.9999% of people will not
be able to hear a >20KHz test tone. However, I believe
that it HAS been scientifically proven that on complex
program material such as music, subjects were able to
discriminate between program material containing
ultrasonic frequencies and material cutting off at
22.05 KHz (for 44.1 recorded material). This has to do
with psychoacoustic theory that I am not very familiar
with.
> But for 2-channel audience tapes, and soundboard
> tapes unless all
> the gear is A+ (example:phish), I seriously doubt
> you could hear
> more than 16 bits, and I guarantee you can't hear
> above 48K
> sampling (ie: 22KHz frequency response on a Sony
> portable dat).
>
I agree that in general for taping PA systems at
relatively large distances maybe the resolution of
24/96-192 may be overkill. But some of us are
interested not just in taping PA systems but like to
tape acoustic performances, symphonies, etc... where
there can be tremendous differences in loudness during
a particular performance and the extra dynamic range
of 24 bit would be a big advantage in capturing the
full impact of the live performance.
In addition, when recording some unamplified
instruments (for example: triangles, cymbals) there
is a significant amount of sound being emitted that is
>20KHz, and high sampling rates could potentially
provide much more accurate reproduction of the "live"
sound.
Just my 2 cents,
Ben
(PS: A disclaimer; I have not actually heard 24 bit
PCM yet)
__________________________________________________
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
Donate cash, emergency relief information
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
From: -bob <bp@gti.net>
Subject: More 96K Hoopla
Reply-To: bp@gti.net
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 16:49:47 -0400
I've been getting some e-mail on this and must say that a healthy debate
is on!
I e-mailed the question to some "old-school" experts, almost all of whom
seem
convinced that the added frequency response isn't necessary.
I'm awaiting more replies and hope to have something more coherent and
informed
to say about what I have found.
The most salient point to date is that at 44Khz a 10Khz tone is sampled
only 4
times, whereas at 96 K it has 9samples. Whether this is significant in
the algorithms which DACs
employ is unclear to me.
Psyscho-acoustic properties are another possible reason to sample at
higher
rates, though the masking by other sounds and the properties of the
reproduction devices becomes
critically important.
The best observation made, overall, was that camera lens acuity has
constantly
improved to far beyond the resolution of photographic paper grain.
It seems to be the nature of science and industry to improve on what it
can, as
it can, until the rest of the gestalt delivery system catches up with
it.
I am anxiously hoping to hear some A-B comparisons at the AES tradeshow
and in audio
showrooms.
-Bob
From: JHParkin@aol.com
Subject: Weezer
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 16:51:08 EDT
Hello all,
Are Weezer taper friendly? I am seeing them next Saturday in detroit and
I heard they were.
Also if they are not has anyone noticed any tighter security at venues do
to what has happened recently with the bombings?
later,
Jeff
From: "Mike Hooker" <mhooker@optonline.net>
Subject: ISO: Gene
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 17:08:58 -0400
hi,
anyone fans of the UK band Gene? i recorded them in the summer of 2000,
but they havent yet been back. they are touring the UK right now, and i
wonder if anyone has any recordings ?
thanks
take at look at my music trading list
http://www.oe-pages.com/ARTS/Ballet/mikehooker
or:
http://pages.zdnet.com/mikehooker/hookstradingpage
have fun,
Mike Hooker
From: Will Wilson <williamwilson@home.com>
Subject: Re: 96K Hoopla
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 16:12:54 -0500
Well. . . The main advantage of higher sampling rates and more bit depth
are as follows:
Higher sampling rates put the Low-Pass filter out of the audible range
and also allow the recording medium to capture more of the actual sound.
The goal is to capture the best representation of the original sound.
96k and higher sampling rates allow us to be able to capture more of the
actual sound.
As far as bit depth goes. . . more bits equal more precision in the
recorded sound, forget about noise floor. If you have more bits the
audio just plain sounds better because you are measuring it with a more
accurate ruler. Instead of 1/16th of an inch as your maximum accuracy,
you now have 1/24th of inch. That equals a better more accurate
measurement, and thus better sound quality.
24bit 96k is a more accurate ruler taking a measurement twice as often.
It sounds better because its a more accurate measurement.
my .02,
-=Will
From: Seth Breidbart <sethb@panix.com>
Subject: Re: 96K Hoopla
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 22:02:34 -0400 (EDT)
> Higher sampling rates put the Low-Pass filter out of the audible
> range and also allow the recording medium to capture more of the
> actual sound. The goal is to capture the best representation of the
> original sound. 96k and higher sampling rates allow us to be able
> to capture more of the actual sound.
That's true (to some extent). Of course, it depends on how you define
"original sound". Do you know the loss frequencies above 20 kHz
suffer with distance? How far are you from the speakers/sound source?
> 24bit 96k is a more accurate ruler taking a measurement twice as
> often.
That's correct.
> It sounds better because its a more accurate measurement.
What evidence do you have that it sounds better (or even different)?
Seth
From: "Steve Hussong" <chop1959@home.com>
Subject: ISO : GUESS WHO & JOE COCKER WALLINGFORD CT
Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 22:13:11 -0400
If anyone has this show I have tons to trade on any format .
STEVE
chop1959@home.com
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