DAT-heads Digest #56, Volume #6 Sun, 23 Sep 01 14:50:01 EDT Contents: Sony PCM-R500 Error Counter (Kevin Brown) metal detectors (sec1968@ezl.com) taping TOOL ("Ryan :-" ) wanted: OKM-II mics (Zubin Mancherjee) Car Stereo Questions-NDC (DATJAMS@aol.com) ISO any Lies Damned Lies, or Talking Drums ("Ragan Todd") extra EWF & Rufus DATs for B+P ("Dan Greenberg") U2 and Garbage ("Jayson") Re: CSO ("matt Sohn") FS: Farm Aid Tickets 9/29/01 (Donald Becker Jr) ISO: Radiohead Stone Mtn., GA (Tim Dignam) RE: My bit on 24-bit (Gordon Gidluck) Re: My bit on 24-bit (Dan Heend) DAT>DVDR ("Brian Dowling") ISO: bfft&km2001-08-09 ("Ryan Hoyt") Friday Night's TV Special ISO (JH) ISO:MULE 9-22-01&9-23-01 CD-r (dan martin) Accesories for sale... (clint morrison) Slim Dunlap Master for trade. Also, did any Twin Cities taper (JH) ISO: the kennedys, john fahey (Mike Hooker) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kevin Brown Subject: Sony PCM-R500 Error Counter Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 12:22:46 -0700 (PDT) I don't have access to a manual. I have figured out how to get to the menu items (for head useage), but getting to the error counter isn't the same as the R300 (the display key). Or is it the same, and it's not working? I just get -- -- -- -- where I *think* the error counter should be. But I don't see the "A" anyway: "A -- -- -- --". Thanks! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: sec1968@ezl.com Subject: metal detectors Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 14:38:31 -0500 Yes they do. I tried to stealth at a club I knew had one, and it went off, and I took my gear back to the car. shane From: "bocabob" Subject: RE: [Tapers-Filmers] Digest Number 712 Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 08:34:13 -0400 Do M1 Dat decks w/ coresound Mics set off the metal detectors? Peace, Boca Bob Silver My home page http://www.ezl.com/~sec1968/ sec1968@ezl.com (home, ASP, Toad & Train) icq# - 46591859 shane.calhoon@anheuser-busch.com (work) 314-765-9187 (work) check out my friends The Stubblefield Band. http://www.stubblefieldband.com ------------------------------ From: "Ryan :-<>" Subject: taping TOOL Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 16:17:59 -0400 I hope to tape them this Friday. I'm a MiniDisc taper, so, I just need some advice on when would be the best time to switch discs when using an 80 minute disc(assuming that the show is longer than 80 minutes). Also, I need to know how long their sets have been of late or how long they usually run. Any and all info would be appreciated, thanks. Ryan http://www.geocities.com/ghettorichboy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Zubin Mancherjee Subject: wanted: OKM-II mics Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 16:50:21 -0400 (EDT) Hello I am looking to purchase a used set of OKM mics in good working condition. If you have a set that has fallen out of favour, please drop me a line. cheers zubin _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ From: DATJAMS@aol.com Subject: Car Stereo Questions-NDC Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 16:50:36 EDT Hey, all. Problem 1: Have a trunk mounted JVC car CD player, about 10 years old. Plays fine for the first hour or so, then skips. When it skips, it goes to the beginning of the given track. it's not from bumps, because it has happened while stopped at a light. It happens on brand new CDs. I think something is heating up and making something malfunction. A. Any bright ideas? B. Any of our familiar repair folks on the list equipped to handle it? Problem 2: Tuner in head unit "picket-fences" all but the stongest stations. If I'm at a light, I get reception if I back up or pull forwards a bit. The faster I go, the more intermittent the signal is. How do I tell whether it's the antenna or the FM board in the unit? I'm also thinking it may be a shielding issue from other cars' cell phones, etc. Also a JVC unit, about 11 years old. Anybody game for this one? Thanks for BW. Carl Mink (NJ) ------------------------------ From: "Ragan Todd" Subject: ISO any Lies Damned Lies, or Talking Drums Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 20:50:31 Any European tapers have any Lies Damned Lies from the recent Greenbelt festival? Does anyone have tape of any past Greenbelt or Flevo festival performers? Any Crystal Rock Night performances? Have some Cornerstone performances to trade. Thanks, Ragan _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Dan Greenberg" Subject: extra EWF & Rufus DATs for B+P Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 17:03:57 -0400 This is for the Earth, Wind, & Fire show at the Pepsi Arena in Albany, NY on 9/16/01. Although they played for 78 minutes, the show is on a 90m (Maxell) tape. The offer is also for Rufus (w/ Chaka Khan). They played for 45 minutes, and that show is on a 60m KAO DAT. They both were recorded w/ Sonics mics from the 2nd row center. In return, I'd like two sealed Sony or Maxell 90m DATs (or one 90m and one 60m) plus postage. First to respond after the Digest hits my mailbox gets it (unless you're willing to do B+P's for others, which I would give preference to...in which case tell me how many you're willing to make). -Dan- ------------------------------ From: "Jayson" Subject: U2 and Garbage Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 16:31:01 -0500 ANyone that is taping the U2 shows on the US 3rd leg, Please tape Garbages also. Thanks Jayson 'SMASH THE SYSTEM!!!' "trying to fix or change something, only guarantees and perpetuates its existance." ICQ#19427171 Trader of CDRs http://home.wi.rr.com/hammering ------------------------------ From: "matt Sohn" Subject: Re: CSO Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 16:50:57 -0500 >Has any one had experience taping at the CSO [Chicago Symphony >Orchestra] >venue? The CSO (Orchestra Hall) is a heavy union venue and taping of any kind is not permitted for any show, so super-stealth mode is necessary. Up until 9/11 security was loose (i.e. not pat-downs) but can't say about now. you will probably be asked to check any bags. I work at the CSO as an audio archivist, and may I say that the people they have recording their concerts do a fantastic job! They have a weekly series of concert broadcasts which originate from WFMT (chicago) and are syndicated across the country, though I was told yesterday that Amoco has just pulled the funding for it, and it probably won't happen this year, one of the major factors being the cost of the musicians fees for recording (they have a VERY strong union). If any of you are so inclined, you can make an appointment with the archives to come in and listen to (but not copy) virtually any of the recordings in our vaults. -mahatma ------------------------------ From: Donald Becker Jr Subject: FS: Farm Aid Tickets 9/29/01 Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 17:44:01 -0500 I hate to do this, but I just can't afford to make the trip down there....I have two nice seats (for taping and/or enjoying the show) for sale. Since the show is coming up quickly, I'll mail these overnight if necessary, or I'd be glad to meet up to make the exchange. The seats are: Section G Row M Seats 13-14 and the show will be featuring performances by Neil Young Willie Nelson Dave Matthews John Mellancamp Serious inquiries only please... -Don ------------------------------ From: Tim Dignam Subject: ISO: Radiohead Stone Mtn., GA Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 15:58:27 -0700 (PDT) I'm looking for this terrific show. I'll send along my trade list if you have it. Thanks, Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Gordon Gidluck Subject: RE: My bit on 24-bit Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 18:03:18 -0500 > From: Beast914@aol.com > Subject: My bit on 24-bit > Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 14:18:20 EDT > > Is there any harm in 24 bit recording? Are 16 bit recordings inferior if they > originated in 24 bit? All the tech talk here (sine waves and square > waves...) conjures the image of a Gary Larson cartoon. We see an > expressionless cat and a completely empty thought bubble over its head. The > caption below reads, "What cats hear". In this analogy, I am the cat. > Is there any harm in 24 bit recording? In general, it is better to use 24-bit converters. I have heard that this reduces quantization error at the 16-bit level compare to just a 16-bit converter. Plus you have the option of adjusting the headroom (in software) before putting it to 16-bit media. In my opinion 24-bit recording offers the potential for better sound, and more flexibility in the setup. > Are 16 bit recordings inferior if they originated in 24 bit? No, in fact they can sound better. Converter quality is a big factor, though. (Keep in mind that you should always add dither when reducing the bit-depth down to 16-bits.) BTW, I am very pro 24-bit/96kHz, in fact, this is one reason I bought SAMP2496. I just don't follow the practice of recording at 96kHz if it's going to a CD or DAT. That may change with time as higher capacity media becomes available and common. (I can relate to your DAT transport problem. I laughed, not because of your misfortune, but because I've experienced similar things. I don't know what would be a better thing to spend all the extra money on --which I don't have? Buy a horse, or get a DAT deck? :-) It's an expensive hobby either way!) Gordon ------------------------------ From: Dan Heend Subject: Re: My bit on 24-bit Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 19:55:10 -0400 Beast914@aol.com wrote: >>> Is there any harm in 24 bit recording? Are 16 bit recordings inferior if they originated in 24 bit? All the tech talk here (sine waves and square waves...) conjures the image of a Gary Larson cartoon. We see an expressionless cat and a completely empty thought bubble over its head. The caption below reads, "What cats hear". In this analogy, I am the cat. I once spoke to the chief tech guy at Sony's film to tape transfer facility in CA (Culver City I think). In preparation for a Sony commercial DVD releases, they take their 35mm film negative and transfer it to HDTV 1080i tape. That HD tape in turn gets downconverted to MPEG2 for DVDs. I asked him: why go to HD at all? They could just go from that film source directly to D1- an uncompressed component digital NTSC format? The response was; "Why not?" So why not do 24 bit recording? Any harm? D <<< If anything, without getting into opinions and facts about dynamic range, consider this: Every AD1K quantizes at 20-bits, and allows for use of UV22 dither and noise shaping that gracefully reduces the output word length to 16 bits. Every AD2K+ quantizes at 24-bits, and allows for use of many different dither and noise shaping algorithms that also gracefully reduce the output word length to 16 bits. Everyone always wonders what the best dither and noise shaping algorithms are to use on any given recording. However, when taping live to 16-bit medium like DAT, you have to decide which one to use right there on the spot. You don't have the option of listening and choosing one based on how it sounds. If you record at 24-bits, you can feed it back into either of these A/D converters, and you then have the option to switch between the different algorithms and choose the right dither and noise shaping that best matches the material and your liking. Likewise, you also have the option of using one of the computer based plugins like Waves IDR or the new UV22 VST plugins to perform dither and noise shaping operations. Finally, because dither and noise shaping are finalizing processes, they should be done as the very last step when mastering for a particular medium. Taking a previously dithered and noise shaped signal and performing further processing (normalizing, redithering, sample rate conversion, etc.) like that typically done for computer based CD mastering not only negates the value of the original dither and noise shaping, but also raises the noise floor (adds noise) and introduces greater quantization error. Unfortunately, I'll bet many folks think normalized CD masters of material recorded with those Apogees sound better than the original. Likewise, I'm also willing to bet that every Apogee UV22 or AD2K+ (with dither/noise shaping) DAT tape out there sounds far better than any CD made from them. So if you plan on making CD's from your 16-bit material with any kind of modification to the signal (other than increases or decreases in levels by a factor of 2), you might as well not use dither and noise shaping at all, because it will only sound worse in the end if you do. BTW, the same thing goes for the SBM's out there. And unless you can turn off SBM, and take a purely truncated 16-bit feed (at least the last bit will be accurate for use in processing later), you've got the same problem. So again, without getting into any argument about the greater dynamic range afforded by 24-bit recording, there should be no question that it has more value over 16-bit recording. -Dan ------------------------------ From: "Brian Dowling" Subject: DAT>DVDR Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 20:28:49 -0400 Has anyone out there have the experience of running their DAT tapes digitally into a DVDR machine (either PC based or stand alone (Pioneer DV 7000, etc). I was looking around for a stand alone unit that did this situation but only found analog imputs. Computer based seems more likely running a DAT> digital soundcard>DVDR, but unsure before purchasing such equipment. Brian ------------------------------ From: "Ryan Hoyt" Subject: ISO: bfft&km2001-08-09 Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2001 21:23:32 -0400 Hey I talked to a few tapers after this show (Keb' Mo' and Bela Fleck & the Flecktones at Wolftrap in Virginia). Bill Haden gave me his business card and we agreed that I would email him in a week or so to set up something to get a copy of his pull. I've emailed him a few times now and still not heard back from him. Please contact me if you have a copy and woud be willing to share! Thanks a lot, Ryan Hoyt ========================== www.rpi.edu/~hoytr2 ------------------------------ From: JH Subject: Friday Night's TV Special ISO Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 08:44:22 -0600 Hello, I'm looking for a trade for Friday night's TV special on VHS tape. I have thousands of hours on CDR to trade, including Neil Young 2001 European shows. Jonathan ------------------------------ From: dan martin Subject: ISO:MULE 9-22-01&9-23-01 CD-r Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 08:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Have Many DAT Hours To Trade , List Is At: http://www.webspawner.com/users/muledat __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: clint morrison Subject: Accesories for sale... Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 09:33:26 -0700 (PDT) I have a couple of odds and ends I no longer use: Soniccase acces. pouch: $15 (paid 25) Audio MAgic Digital CAble: $50 (paid 80) Email if interested. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: JH Subject: Slim Dunlap Master for trade. Also, did any Twin Cities taper Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 12:08:01 -0600 I have this master available for B&P, or four Mitsui CDR blanks or several of another brand. Slim Dunlap Band, Turf Club, Saint Paul, MN 85:DSBD (D100) (mix with stereo pair of Crown PZM's on the ceiling) DG60P Sony DAT data cartridge. Jonathan ------------------------------ From: Mike Hooker Subject: ISO: the kennedys, john fahey Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:28:24 -0400 hi, i'm looking for shows from pete and maura kennedy, and also john fahey . i taped the kennedys at the long island folk and fiddle fest( from a radio simulcast) if anyone is interested. i've also got one nice john fahey gig. if you want to trade, please check my list and drop me a line. thanks see my music trading page ( new URL): http://pages.zdnet.com/mikehooker/hookstradingpage have fun, Mike Hooker ______________ ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** To unsubscribe from this digest, please send email to dat-heads-unsubscribe@datheads.phish.net If your email address has changed, you may (optionally) send the message to dat-heads-unsubscribe-oldaddress=olddomain@datheads.phish.net and the old address will be removed. 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