DAT-heads Digest #73
Contents:
ISO David Sylvian in Roma Oct 4 2001 (GaoBest@aol.com)
24-bit/96kHz (painfully long) ("Marc Nutter")
ISO: Patch for Sonic Youth/Mics to borrow (MAGICRIG@aol.com)
Re: Project Studio Monitors (Paul Tumolo)
PJ Harvey / Palladium, LA 9/28/01 (hewitt@panix.com)
FA: Neumann KM series shockmounts/windscreens ("Mark Dulisse")
Question: regarding A/V receiver as it related to digital audio (idocmark@buffnet.net)
Best normalization practices? ("Jackson Gibbs")
ISO - Spinal Tap (DAVEDARC@aol.com)
Taper needed for Travis Mpls 10/13-GREAT FREE TICKET! (Corey Present)
ISO: Bob Dylan TODAY (10/6 Seattle) (Mark Mayhle)
ISO: U2 tapers ("Bas Ruesink")
new Australia & NZ tapers/traders list ("c t")
ISO: recent Hank 3 tapes ("Joshua")
FS: for sale : core sound regular binurals ("Tatina, Bill")
From: GaoBest@aol.com
Subject: ISO David Sylvian in Roma Oct 4 2001
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 14:11:48 EDT
Hey, a good friend attended the Sylvian gig and I'd like to get a copy of
this show for her, alas I have zero Sylvian (and no Japan, no Sakamoto) but
have other fine music. I can email a datlist; I also tape shows. Any
assistnace is greatly appreciated. Please email me directly at
gaobest@aol.com
cheers
mike
From: "Marc Nutter" <nutter@sonicsense.com>
Subject: 24-bit/96kHz (painfully long)
Reply-To: "Marc Nutter" <nutter@sonicsense.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 14:54:57 -0600
Hi All,
Please pardon the cross-posting of this long commentary but I have seen the
issue addressed in several forums lately. Once again, I am disturbed by the
general demeanor being shown toward advanced technology and recording.
Hopefully, folks will become a little more excited and less apprehensive
about the future of field recording--It's Here!!!
As DAT recordists, we all paved the way 10 years ago and now folks
recording to their laptop computers are pushing beyond the limitations
imposed by the DAT medium. While some individuals and other field recording
oriented retailers are quick to cast dispersions against others for
utilizing advanced recording technologies, those of us who are using these
devices are not doing so with any ill intent or judgement of those who are
not. I hope that those who have an opportunity to take the plunge forward
will do so in order to make the best recordings possible so we may enjoy
them for years to come. Those who can't right now will certainly have
opportunity to enjoy those efforts down the line.
As for myself, a fortunate benefit of being an audio equipment retailer
is that I get an opportunity to try a wide variety of equipment first hand.
I hope my experiences and comments are as helpful to each of you as many of
yours certainly are to me.
Regarding the recent discussion of 24/48 versus 24/96, I would like to
submit the following and back it up with a CD offer. Once again, you must
have software and a soundcard that supports 2496. Playback equipment will
also play a role. As indicated previously, I ran the following system: B&K
(4021 or 4011)>Lunatec V2>Sonic AD2K+>RME Digiface for 2496 and Digigram
VXPocket for 2448.
Govt. Mule 09/14/01 Fillmore Auditorium--Denver, CO. 3000+ capacity.
Differences were notable but not astounding. Attack on the bass and overall
richness was apparent. A level of depth and detail, feeling of the room,
was noticeable. During an A Capella segment, the words were more
intelligeable on the 96k version than they were on the 48kHz. From the
taping section about 2/3 back in the room, this made it feel more like the
venue but a touch of boominess was evident at
96kHz that was not as noticeable at 48kHz.
Comotion--Boulder Theatre, Boulder, CO 09/22/01 1100 capacity--In front
of the board just off center. Unfortunately, despite its pleasing
appearance, the Boulder Theatre has a propensity for sounding hollow. Hard
walls, high ceilings, as wide as it is deep, you get the picture. This
recording made a believer out of me when it comes to the value of 96kHz. Of
greatest significance in regards to the segments I have studied, are the
separation of each instrument. Fiddle maintains it own place in the mix
while toms are struck in the background with clear definition on the attack.
The bass, once again, can be felt and heard interacting with the walls of
the room. The sense of depth and space is improved considerably. Similar
to the previously mentioned toilet bowl recording, the 96kHz recording
delivers the feeling of returning to the venue whereas the 48kHz (a great
recording unto itself) still sounds like a recording.
Yonder Mountain String Band--Fox Theatre, Boulder, CO 09/27/01 650
capacity. Widely considered to be the best sounding room in Colorado, this
Fox Theatre is where I test anything serious. As we could have expected, it
was under these circumstances that the most dramatic difference I have
observed between 48kHz and 96kHz in ambient concert recording was observed.
The recordings in '98 of String Cheese and Dave Matthews only gave a hint of
what we could expect.
Having had a few "blind" listeners (they weren't even told what they
were listening to or why) hear these recordings confirms my observations.
Instruments each maintain a greater "vibrancy" in the mix. The attack on
the mandolin, the punch in the bass, the layering of banjo sounds with each
biting note, and like all the other tests, the feeling for the room is
greatly improved. I am also quite pleased in hearing detail in vocals that
the 48k does NOT deliver. Subtle transients,
and aspirations are clearly evident. One listener commented that she didn't
like the singers voice and preferred "A" (the 48kHz) since it didn't reveal
as much as the "other sample" did. Later, she commented that "b"(96kHz)
sounded
like she expected it would in the venue.
Another listener quickly commented that it was time to quit trying to
downplay the differences. They are evident and exciting!
As for my take on it, I like the open, spacious feeling that I am
hearing in the 96k material. My goal in recording has always been to try to
re-create the feeling of being at the show. For those who are seeking a
drier recording (more of the "soundboard" sound), 96k may not be desirable.
However, if depth, space, and smooth representation is what you are looking
for, check it out!!!
Additionally, thanks to Dave Morrison, I have read the following article,
albeit from 1997 and guided by an equipment manufacturer. I hope you'll
enjoy it as much as I did. http://www.3daudioinc.com/3daudio_hi-res.html
Then, it looks like Neil Young's on the bandwagon too...
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/SoundAndVision/Article01/Features/NeilYoung
021301/NeilYoung021301p01.html
Thanks to Steve Washick for sharing this with us on Digital-Panic
If we adhere only to the theories of scholars writing books, folks who
often listen with oscilloscopes instead of ears, we will lose much of the
value of music and of the event itself. On the other hand, if the sceptics
of 96kHz are right, and we gain nothing more than than they suggest that we
can (ie. better stereo imaging), aren't we then capturing the essence of
what we are striving for with a pair of microphones in a stereo
configuration?
For those who wish to cast dispersions regarding dealer hype about 96k as
opposed to 48kHz, please ask yourself what any dealer of audio equipment
would benefit from having you like one over the other. The RME Digiface
sells
for only a couple hundred dollars more than the VXPocket. That certainly
doesn't lend itself to much improvement of profit potential. Then, with
other devices, like the EMI2|6 with 2496 support at half the price of the
RME product, I have a hard time understanding the suggestion. Storage space
is certainly a drag right now but so was the price of DAT tape in 1992.
Here's to many happy recording experiences with lots of learning created by
advancements of technology.
Let's keep it fun!
Marc
Marc Nutter
Sonic Sense, Inc.
2755 S. Gilpin St.
Denver, CO 80210
Toll Free Phone (877) 324-4463
http://www.sonicsense.com
From: MAGICRIG@aol.com
Subject: ISO: Patch for Sonic Youth/Mics to borrow
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 17:24:09 EDT
Anyone else taping SY tomorrow that I can patch out of? Or even a set of mics
to borrow for the night and I'll drop em back off after the show? My mics are
being fixed and won't be ready till monday.
Also, did anyone tape Sparklehorse @ Warsaw? I have the 2 Fez shows from June
CSBmod>D7 and the Maxwells/Bowery shows from Sep 26-27 DSM6P>D7.
Thanks.
Joe
BWT: 1 free copy to the 1st person to reply after the digest is in my inbox:
5.29.01 Placebo & Idlewild - Irving Plaza, NY 2 disc set, CSBmod>D7.
From: Paul Tumolo <ptumolo@haywire.csuhayward.edu>
Subject: Re: Project Studio Monitors
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 14:30:45 -0700 (PDT)
I've been using Hafler TRM8s in my studio for several years and love them.
at the time i bought them I was willing to spend a lot more for monitors
that i liked and could trust. so i trucked over to leo's pro audio and
listened extenively to a lot of monitors over several days, including
genelec 1031s. i picked the TRM8 as best for me. I like them so much that
i recently bought a pair of the smaller TRM6s for remote work.
they have the same high end, but a less extended in the bass.
From: hewitt@panix.com
Subject: PJ Harvey / Palladium, LA 9/28/01
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 17:36:28 -0400
Anyone get this? Please mail if so. So veddy much to trade.
From: "Mark Dulisse" <drkstar10@home.com>
Subject: FA: Neumann KM series shockmounts/windscreens
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 17:58:18 -0400
I have a pair of high end shockmounts and windscreens for the Neumann KM
series on e-bay. 40 mph+ protection.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1471506598&r=0&t=0&sh
owTutorial=0&ed=1002815588&indexURL=0&rd=1
BWT: first one to ask gets a copy of Hot Tuna 7-24-01a NYC Blues Cruise. I
got it dubbed and I got the postage.
From: idocmark@buffnet.net
Subject: Question: regarding A/V receiver as it related to digital audio
Reply-to: idocmark@buffnet.net
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 17:54:49 est5edt
I have recently decided to upgrade my 12 year old
receiver to a dolby digital A/V receiver. I have
three coaxial digital devices that I would like
to connect to this receiver.
1. DVD player - need coaxial input to the receiver
2. DAT deck has coaxial digital I/O only
3. Computer soundcard has coaxial digital I/O only
I am having a problem finding a receiver that has
enough coaxial digital outputs. My question is
if these digital outputs are even compatible with a
DAT deck? And if you can control the frequency and bit
resolution of the digital output from an A/V receiver
(I highly doubt that would be a feature that is available).
The digital to analog converters in most receivers
are capable of 96kHz/24 bit resolution. Is this the
signal that would go out of the digital output? If
so this would not be compatible with a DAT deck and
would require downsampling when working with digital
audio on the computer.
Also if you input a conventional digital signal (44.1 or
48kHz/16 bit) into the receiver would an upsampled digital
signal be output?
Any help would be appreciated - sales people that I have
talked to have not been able to answer these questions.
Thanks,
Mark
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From: "Jackson Gibbs" <gibbs@crater.net>
Subject: Best normalization practices?
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 15:46:16 -0700
I have just transfered a show from dat->pc that is too quiet for my taste
(very quiet).
So, I'm going to have to normalize it a bit. The question is how much?
I've made one copy with 100% normalization (it's a 1.2 GB file, so it takes
a while) and it sounds great to my ear. But before I go seeding this show
to people I want to make sure I'm not screwing up the sound... so...
Am I right to presume that the normalization process consists of:
1. find the highest magnitude in the file
2. determine what multiplier will change that magnitude to the requested
normalized %.
3. multiply every sample in the file by that multiplier.
Presuming that, are there any sound quality risks in normalizing a show? Is
it best to normalize it to something short of the full 100%?
These are the questions I can think of, but I'd appreciate any other
normalization catches I might be missing.
A couple unrelated things:
- Thanks to all the folks who helped with the Nightengale recording
software question.
- I decided to try Cool Edit 2000 and am finding it much more to my liking
than SoundForge XP.
-Jackson
From: DAVEDARC@aol.com
Subject: ISO - Spinal Tap
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 18:53:06 EDT
Looking for "the Rock and Roll Creation"........
I figure somebody must have a line on the Tap shows from earlier this year by
now. I know many people are interested, so can somebody PLEASE offer up to
the list, or arrange a trade with me and I will throw back to the list.
Please, please, please, please...............
Dave
From: Corey Present <elysian321@yahoo.com>
Subject: Taper needed for Travis Mpls 10/13-GREAT FREE TICKET!
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 21:31:26 -0700 (PDT)
I have a great taping ticket for the Travis show, 8th
row in front of the speakers. I am out of town and
can't go! I was looking to give the ticket to somebody
who can tape the show. I was hoping to get the master
dat in trade, after you cloned it of course.
I hope to find somebody with a dat of course and
decent mics. Also somebody that has taped some shows.
If possible please send a list so I can see.
Please let me know ASAP since the show is coming up
fast!
Please e-mail me privately.. Elysian321@yahoo.com
Thanks!
Corey
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From: Mark Mayhle <mark@mayhle.com>
Subject: ISO: Bob Dylan TODAY (10/6 Seattle)
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 00:50:23 -0500 (CDT)
OK, it's a little soon. 8^) But it's my birthday, and security was not an
issue-- searching bags and purses but no metal detectors or
pat-downs. However I stupidly forgot to bring a necessary accessory and
was unable to tape. Please email me for a list!
--
Mark Mayhle
mark@mayhle.com
From: "Bas Ruesink" <basruesink@hotmail.com>
Subject: ISO: U2 tapers
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 15:56:03 +0200
Looking for DAT/MD u2 tapers for upcoming 3rd leg of Elevationtour. please
let me know when you are planning to tape and list your equipment. I have 6
masters from Euroleg.
List at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/1620
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From: "c t" <crakt@hotmail.com>
Subject: new Australia & NZ tapers/traders list
Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 14:32:39 +0000
hi all
there is a new Australia & New Zealand tapers & traders list for those in
the area who may be interested in joining.
others can keep it in mind if ever there are any australian shows or radio
stuff that you want taped...someone may tape them for you(although we dont
have many members at the moment,maybe never)...send a message to
AustralianNZTapers-owner@yahoogroups.com[if you're not subscribed the
moderator will have to approve your post]
AustralianNZTapers list info:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AustralianNZTapers
to subscribe:
AustralianNZTapers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
thanks
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
From: "Joshua" <sprung598@yahoo.com>
Subject: ISO: recent Hank 3 tapes
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 09:28:05 -0600
Looking for tapes of the Hank 3 shows that just transpired - much to trade
Thanks!
-Josh
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From: "Tatina, Bill" <Bill.Tatina@nordstrom.com>
Subject: FS: for sale : core sound regular binurals
Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 11:34:15 -0600
> OK. Here's a Very Dependable set of CSB's with switchable bass filter.
>
> will sell for a quick sale @ $160.00 + 10.00 to ship
>
> http://www.core-sound.com/mics.html
>
> they go for > @ Core Sound Binaural mic set | | | (Includes microphones and battery | | $260 | box with switchable filter) | |
>
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