DAT-heads Digest #187
Contents:
minime vs ad2k ("NashPhil")
FS: AD1000 (AGROSKIN@aol.com)
RE: MiniMe will kill the AD2K ("Jamie Lutch")
"free" 50pack of TDK CDRs at Circuit City ("Gary Davis")
From: "NashPhil" <phil@nashphil.com>
Subject: minime vs ad2k
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 01:42:37 -0600
Not sure how the new Apogee Mini-Me will turn out eventually but it's
specs look great. One comment in response to a post about it in
comparison to a Benchmark AD2K. Not that these figures by themselves
mean all that much, but here is one noticable difference in their AD
converters.
DAT = 96db at best
MiniMe = 106 db dynamic range
AD2k = 117db dynaminc range
Human ears = 120db range at best
IMO,
If recording to DAT only, there will be very little noticable
difference in the two units. If you are planning on going the 24bit
route, those extra 11db of range will make better recordings.
I agree, the Apogee AD1000 is now pretty much outclassed by it's
mini-me counterpart.
I still think the AD2K is going to be hard to beat in sonic quality
and ease of use. It's converters are on the same scale as those in the
5000$ price range, but the lack of pre-amp is certainly a detractor,
now that other units are coming along with built-in pres.
I've been running a 24/48 laptop system for 9 months now with the VX
pocket and a friend's AD2K (which I love!) and I must say the
difference between the 16bit/24bit is breathtaking, especially using
the extra dynamic range I get with the AD2K (as opposed to VX pocket
alone)
It will be interesting to see how compitition reacts to the new
products. I'm suprised that Apogee didn't go the firewire route, or at
least offer that as an option. This would seem to restrict chaining of
units to create a single multitrack clock source.
As the saying goes...you get what you pay for...so spend wisely.
Later, PHil
From: AGROSKIN@aol.com
Subject: FS: AD1000
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 02:50:43 EST
APOGEE AD1000 PREAMP AND A TO D CONVERTER WITH PS 1000E
DUAL LINEAR POWER SUPPLY, ALSO COMES WITH TWO 15 PIN
BREAK OUT CABLES, ONE WITH DUAL SPIDIF OUTS, ONE WITH
SPIDIF AND WORD CLOCK FOR AC POWER.
APOGEE MANUAL AND ONE 12 V BATTERY INCLUDED.
WORDCLOCK CRYSTAL WAS REPLACED ALONG WITH THREE FRONT
PANNEL POTS AND ENTIRE UNIT WAS SERVICED AND CLEANED
LAST MARCH. MINT CONDITION, WITH NEW CRYSTAL, THATS
A $500 DOLLAR REPAIR THAT ALL OF THESE UNITS NEED EVENTUALLY.
REVISION D EPROM, LATEST VERSION OF SOFTWEAR.
IF YOU WANT AN APOGEE THIS IS THE ONE.
WILL ACEPT PAY PAL, ELECTRONIC TRANSFER. BUYER PAYS $15 SHIPPING ANYWHER IN
US
SERIOUS INQUERRIES ONLY PLEASE CONTACT ME OFF LIST.
YOU MAY BID ON THIS ITEM ON EBAY Item # 1504055530
From: "Jamie Lutch" <reconstruction@thegrid.net>
Subject: RE: MiniMe will kill the AD2K
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 00:22:05 -0800
>
> From: "Joseph McDuffy" <taper_joe@hotmail.com>
> Subject: YEAH-baby! MiniMe will kill the AD2K
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 21:51:58 +0000
>
> I just called Apogee and they said the MiniMe will
> ship in 90 days and will cost $1395.00!!!!
>
> That's SO cheap for all that it does, and I was about
> to buy a used AD1000 from a friend - SO glad I waited.
>
> And, Will...so much for the AD2K - WAY over-priced one trick
> ponies are soon to be history!
>
> One Milllliiion Dollars! ;)
whoa there, lets compare apples to apples
mini-me ad-1000 ad2k+
dynamic range 93-105dB 107 dB 117 dB
not to mention the ad2k+ can pass a 24bit signal AND supply a 16 bit signal
granted the ad2k doesnt have a mic pre, but most apogee users prefer an
external preamp to the ad1000's preamp anyway. Do you think the front-end of
the mini-me is gonna be any better, when it has a lower dynamic range spec
than the ad1000? esp. for $1395 (~$1100 list?). Thats about the price of a
used ad1000, which sounds the same (or better?). The 24-bit isnt gonna do
much good with 93 dB of dynamic range, so what does this really offer over
the ad1000?
Only our ears will tell, but I think it would be fair to say the mini-me
will probably kill anything _in its class_ (adc-20,rme multiface, edirol,
etc), but the ad1000 and the ad2k are designed as _reference_ units, where
the mini-me looks to sacrifice quality to appeal to a different market.
>
> Peas -
>
> Joe
>
> =================
>
> From: "Will Herrmann" <willherrmann@mediaone.net>
> Subject: Apogee Mini-Me
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 12:51:06 -0500
>
> Hey folks. Just checked out the link below on Apogee's new 24
> bit portable
> Pre/AD, the Mini-Me. Anyone have any experience with this unit? I'm
> curious how it compares to the AD2K+. With a substantially lower
> price tag
> (not to mention the built-in preamp), it looks like a great piece of gear.
>
> Check it out: http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/prod_minime.html
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: John Fink Jr <fink@tcnj.edu>
> Subject: Miles Davis anyone?
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:40:48 -0500
>
>
>
> Hi!
>
> If anyone is interested in trading Miles Davis shows,
> please contact me privately,
>
> Be Well,
> John
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: Bob Siegl <bobsiegl@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Hallelulah!
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:07:02 -0800 (PST)
>
> All praise be to Stuart! I am really tired of this
> too, but I can't contain myself anymore (plus it's
> FRIDAY).I dont know about the majority of Tapers on
> the list, but I also am field recording, 90% of the
> time, WITHOUT the expressed permission (or invitation
> for that matter) of the performer. I have been doing
> this for a pretty long time - and I do not do it to
> "spread the music, man". I record shows, so I can
> listen to them. If you want to listen to them too,
> I'm happy to arrange that with you. But I'm NOT going
> to "kick it down"... not to a stranger on an internet
> trading list anyway. I kick it down to my brother, ya
> know?
> I got sooooo frustrated a few years ago, and wound
> up unsubscribing for some time because a bunch of
> tapers piled on top of some guy who wanted to sell his
> cassette collection so he could get DATs instead. It
> was, like, against some moral code of taping bra...
> WHEN DID THIS START? (seriosly, when?)NOT WITH ELVIS,
> that's for sure! Led Zeppelin? - probably not then
> either (my guess would be the mid nineties, but that's
> another story..). Yeah, maybe he could have traded
> them for DATs instead of get $2 each, who cares?
> Maybe it's like the MORMONS, you know - if your gonna
> do it, don't do it with other MORMONS around or you'll
> get flamed!
>
> Instead of whining and preaching about who makes a
> DOLLAR on HIS CRUSTY OLD WANG DAT that he doesn't need
> anymore, because he's transfered it - and 1000 like it
> - I PROPOSE WE TRACK DOWN THE CREEPS THAT GAVE OUR
> KIND UP FRONTS *TITLES* on jo-blows bootleg internet
> website tapelist! Let's worry about that!! Maybe we
> should be a bit more discriminating.
> Really guys, if a taper transfers all of his DATs
> to disc, do you really think this guy wants hundreds
> (or thousands) of blank tapes back? Or discs for that
> matter? Where the heck do ya keep them to start with?
>
> (by the way, i have nothing against mormons, i was
> just reminded of the joke.... how do you keep a mormon
> from drinking all of your beer on a fishing trip?
> BRING TWO OF THEM)
>
> So now, I too, must apologise for taking up lots of
> bandwidth. Sorry, but as primitive as it may sound,
> sometimes it is more interesting to be a part of an
> argument that to read 7 entries about soundblaster.
> ha ha
> Adios
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "Steve and Jen Robinson" <zeus163@attbi.com>
> Subject: Starsailor in Seattle--Mis-track
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:42:16 -0800
>
> I was taping this show last night for a friend and I came home with
> blank space. This is only the second time in 7 years using DAT that it's
> happened. The last time it happened, another friend was rolling tape as
> well.
>
> I'm trying to find out if anyone else was there at the show. If so, I'd
> love to get your Starsailor. I taped the lead singer at the in-store
> earlier in the day and also the Charlatans that night. D8-pa6lc-ss
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: GaoBest@aol.com
> Subject: david gilmour tour and New Order Australia
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:02:18 EST
>
> Hi everyone
>
> Is anybody taping the DGilmour shows - I have a great clone of
> the Meltdown
> performance... I'm unable to trade now but I know that anyone taping the
> Gilmour will be very popular in various circles. I know there are better
> tapers on this forum than the Pink Floyd fan ones, so I figure to
> ask here.
> of course loads of PF and non-PF to trade, etc., and if we can get some
> Gilmour swaps then B/P would be definite for May or June.
>
> Also final reminder and pleads for people to tape New Order in
> Australia in
> Jan/Feb this year, those big Day Out and small gigs will be
> fantastic, you'll
> be very glad you did it.
>
> bwt: various New Order show clones for b/p, but at least 30-120
> days dating
> due to a very hectic schedule (sorry), leaning more towards 120 than 30.
>
> Cheers
> Michael Siou
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "Slipkid" <slipkid@voicenet.com>
> Subject: david gilmour
> Reply-To: "Slipkid" <slipkid@voicenet.com>
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:31:14 -0500
>
> anyone out there taping gilmour's shows at the royal albert hall
> tonight (&
> the 16th + 17th)???
>
> would like to trade for the shows!
>
> thanks,
>
> - jon -
>
> slipkid@voicenet.com
> surf me at: http://www.voicenet.com/~slipkid
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "Will Foy" <willfoy@pobox.com>
> Subject: on the subject of selling dat tapes
> Reply-To: <willfoy@pobox.com>
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 22:23:17 -0500
>
> <dons asbestos suit>
>
> There are a lot of pro's and con's to the "sale" of recorded media, ie,
> used shows.
>
> Let me ask a question.... I'm in the process of converting all of my
> DAT archives, mostly master tapes, to CDR and SHN. I've always tried to
> maintain an ethical taper stance, to the point of policing ebay
> auctions when possible for stuff I've treed or traded out into the wild
> that ends up in the hands of the less clued in members of music-fandom
> who try to sell things for a profit.
>
> However, as I archive these tapes to a more stable medium, they
> continue to take up space in my small home. Moreover, I'm not likely to
> use the DAT's again in the collection.
>
> What I'd personally rather do is get them to someone who can use them
> in the DAT format. Some would argue that I should give them away, and
> certainly there's a part of me that would love to do that. However, I
> also feel like I'm not making a profit to ask someone to pay what would
> be my CURRENT cost for blanks, and current shipping rates to cover the
> costs incurred to get someone the media.
>
> Let me offer an example. This morning, I finished burning my final SHN
> disc of all of my Gibb Droll and related material shows. I now have
> around 10-15 [ don't know off the top of my head, as I'm at work now. ]
> DAT tapes that could collect dust in my dat racks until they
> disintegrate into nothingness, or could go to someone who'll use and
> appreciate them as I have. Let's say I compare prices at 3 common
> vendors to the dat-heads community for my media, Kao Gold, Maxell,
> Fuji, and Sony. I take the lowest price of the three, let's say it's
> 2.00 for the sake of argument only. I could be even more specific and
> determine price of each brand and each tape length. However, let's say
> that the lowest price for ANY of the brands and the lowest price for
> comparable [ say, 60m, and 90m ] is $2.... Again this is for the sake
> of argument.
>
> Now, let's assume that someone takes an offer I might make to take
> these tapes off my hands. If Jack Decker takes my offer, and lives in
> CA, he could order replacement blanks to refill my collection, pay
> shipping to get them shipped to his location in CA, then pay to ship
> the whole thing to Lewisville, NC [ where I live ], etc. OR, what I
> propose as an alternative to all this, take the cost that he'd pay as
> his lowest price, and take the cost that I would incur at the postal
> service, or comparable carrier [ if for example UPS 3 day select is
> cheaper ], so let's say we're talking about 20 dat tapes, and the cost
> to send that is 5.00 bucks [ i'm making this up, so the numbers may be
> completely wrong. sue me. wait, please don't! ], so under this example,
> if it's 2 bucks a tape at the lowest rate x 20 = 40, plus 5 dollars of
> actual shipping cost incurred... why NOT allow Jack to send $45, saving
> several layers of middlemen. there's no profit here. i sold the media
> at cost [ at cost means there's no profit ]. i shipped the media to
> the person at cost [ again, a literal zero difference between what the
> postal service charged me to ship 20 dats to a person in CA. ]. add
> zero profit to zero profit, and... you've got zero profit.
>
> why is this scenario a hard pill to swallow for the dat-heads
> community? my suspicion is that the concept of money EVER entering the
> equation of our trading "bylaws" is something that somehow corrupts the
> process. i disagree. my thinking is that if we can document that no
> profit was ever gained, then we've done no wrong, either legally or
> ethically. if no profit was gained, then has the artist been wronged
> in some way [ which is really what copyright is designed to protect...
> the rights of artists, as well as that of the public ]? no. if no
> profit was gained, has the label or other commercial interest been
> wronged? no. why then, is there much knashing of teeth and renting of
> clothing over this issue?
>
> i have seen some posts on the list advocating or requesting to sell off
> a collection at the cost that was paid at the time... THIS is where we
> enter a gray area. why? because historical cost may not equal current
> cost. in my scenario above, a collection is sold at current cost,
> emulating a transaction involving blanks for recorded media, ie, a
> Blanks and postage offer, but in terms of the actual current cash costs
> of said blanks and postage.
>
> in practice, there are many times where i've helped out a newbie trader
> who would normally send me an overpriced dat blank he bought for 12
> bucks at his local musician's shop and postage, by instead saying, tell
> ya what... i paid 2.65 for a 60meter blank from terrapin and i'll cost
> you 77 cents to mail that package to me, so send me 3.42, and we'll
> call it even. no one was hurt by this exchange of cash. in historical
> terms, cash is meant to replace an ever-more-complex barter system that
> humanity devised to exchange goods and services for other goods and
> services. cash became merely another good. so, why then, do we object
> to using cash in a strictly-not-for-profit situation? some members of
> the list may believe differently than i, that i've committed a great
> wrong to the concept of trading by saying some poor college student or
> whomever can send me the cash equivalent of blanks and postage, down to
> the cent. they're entitled to that opinion. however, i'd rather gain a
> fan for the concept of non-profit exchanges of live music than risk
> allowing him or her to become frustrated and enter the black market of
> sales of live music.
>
> in my opinion, the way i see it, which may be different from others'
> opnions, it boils down to common sense. if one can show that currently,
> it costs $X.yy to ship a package containing n recorded tapes, and it
> currently costs no less than $d.cc for those recorded tapes as if they
> were blanks... then why not allow the "sale" [ there's NO profit there!
> ] of those tapes.
>
> to put it another way... i could take this set of 15 dat tapes that
> contain music, erase them all. they're blank tapes. most of them as
> masters, are single-use one-pass tapes, meaning, i recorded them,
> played them back once so i could record them to cd and shn, and erased
> them. what's a one-pass tape go for these days? i could then sell
> those tapes, as one-pass tapes... there'd be no ethical question at all
> on this issue. the music's removed, so, there's NO legal question here.
> it's a simple good. what's the difference in determining what the cost
> of that media, as a one-pass tape is, and multiplying that by the exact
> number of tapes, adding the cost of shipping and asking for that? i see
> none whatsoever. in this case, at least the music can be passed along
> at cost to someone else who might enjoy it.
>
>
>
> however, i do welcome comments on this. i'd love to hear a constructive
> argument on why this is either illegal or unethical.
>
>
>
> "To strive, to seek, to find; and not to yield" - Tennyson
> Will Foy willfoy@pobox.com will.home http://birksncap.csoft.net
> JumpLittleChildrenNilLaraAngieAparoEdwinMcCainBenHarper/ \
> GibbDrollEddieFromOhioEverythingAgentsOfGoodRootsRush |e:|
> TimReynoldsMMWFlecktonesDMBVerticalHorizonBluesTraveler\__/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: "Jamie Lutch" <reconstruction@thegrid.net>
> Subject: FS: taping enabled laptop
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 21:10:45 -0800
>
> Hi all,
> I have for sale a 3lb toshiba subnotebook that I have used to tape 24-bit
> in the field, also makes a great transfer setup (30W power
> consumption), You
> can leave it hooked up to my dat and transfer all day long. Tested bit
> accurate at 16&24 bit
>
> Includes an external li-ion battery that runs it for 8-9 hours in the
> section.
>
> Great toy to take on tour. Tape the show, edit & burn cd's in hotel..
>
> email me for details if interested
>
> thanks,
> jamie
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> From: Tom Semans <tsemans@adelphia.net>
> Subject: Looking for Bridge Concerts 2000 & 2001
> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 01:31:13 -0500
>
> Hey there!
> I've been out of the trading loop for a while now, and am now finding
> myself with the time to to do a few trades. I can do either dat or
> cdr, and have a substantial collection of music to trade with. One of
> my "sub" hobbies is collecting the Bridge Concerts held each fall at
> Shoreline Amphitheatre. If anyone can help me with these it would be
> most appreciated. I'm also up for other music, as my tastes range quite
> a bit. Your list will get mine!
> Thanks,
> Tom
> aka
> Music Arcade
> WOBT:
> Todd Snider & the Nervous Wrecks @ Smiths Olde Bar, Atlanta GA 3.6.98 on
> cd-r (from my Master)
> First 2 b&p
>
>
> PS: Cindy- you out there? I lost your e-mail addy!
>
> "You reach a certain age where you're not waiting for the man you're
> gonna become...you better start being the man you want to be"
> Bruce Springsteen
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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From: "Gary Davis" <gdavis@loop.com>
Subject: "free" 50pack of TDK CDRs at Circuit City
Reply-to: gdavis@loop.com
Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 00:43:37 -0800
Only through today (Saturday) ?
$25 50pack with $25 in two rebates.
(The ad says $5 after rebates but in fact it's zero).
Acording to CDRIDENT, these discs are made by Ritek and have
type 7 dye.
By comparison, Imation discs are made by CMC Magnetics and
have type 6 dye.
Anyone have an opinion about the TDKs?
BTW, CompUSA currently has a deal for 100 Imations in 100
Slimline cases for $10 after rebates.
--Gary
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