DAT-heads Digest #192
Contents:
ISO: Jeff Buckley (Gary Watson)
re: DATs for sale? /. . . argument there (Joe Rioux)
RE: Creative DAP 20GB for recording shows ("Matt")
DAT not permanent? ("Bob Branstetter")
Re: MINI Shotguns ("Matt")
RE: ISO: Stand, Bogen/Manfratto? ("Matt")
Media Supply Updated Pricing (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?L_Se=E1n_Kennedy?=)
Rough Vendor Guidelines (Sean Kennedy)
DA-302 woes (Andrew Haley)
Re: DATs for sale? /. . . argument there ("DRider")
Re: re: re: DATs for sale? ("Stanley W. Smith")
DA-P1 stuff (Alex Prestin)
Re: cash for DATs--and a WOB offer ("kip martin")
Re: ISO: Stand, Bogen/Manfratto? (Alex Prestin)
Hank Williams III board access (Joshua)
small firewire drives (randy@monkeybiz.Stanford.EDU)
ISO: Old Kid Creole and the Coconuts (Dean)
From: Gary Watson <gary@blandest.demon.co.uk>
Subject: ISO: Jeff Buckley
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:07:56 GMT
Hello all,
I have just discovered how brilliant this guy was, and would like to hear
some live material. I have nothing of Jeff's material to offer in return,
but hopefully we can work something out.
Many thanks,
Gary
"Only after the last tree has been cut down, only after the last river has
been poisoned, only after the last fish has been caught, only then will you
find money cannot be eaten."
From: Joe Rioux <jrioux@mediaone.net>
Subject: re: DATs for sale? /. . . argument there
Reply-To: jrioux@mediaone.net
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:21:02 -0500
Kip made a point that should be reiterated again.
There ARE industry people who read this list. Regardless
of whether or not you agree that selling DAT tapes with
music on them for a nominal, current or less than current
market price is ethical, the fact is that this action
simply rubs some of these industry people the wrong way.
And in the end that COULD affect all of us if what is
sold rubs the wrong person the wrong way at the wrong time.
From: "Matt" <matt@mattb.net>
Subject: RE: Creative DAP 20GB for recording shows
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:31:45 -0700
>
> From: <giorgi@xs4all.nl>
> Subject: Creative DAP 20GB for recording shows
> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 09:52:56 +0100 (CET)
>
> Does anyone of you use this device for concert taping?
> And what are your experiences?
>
> I know this is not DAT related, but if DAT recorders really are not going
> to be produced anymore, what should we do??? I won't switch to portable CD
> recorders (because of switching CDRs during a show).
>
> thanks
> Ramon
>
I hear the i/o is pretty poor, and there's no spdif input to bypass it.
Another competing device, the Archos jukebox has cleaner i/o and spdif, but
will ONLY record in compressed MP3 format. If only we could combine the two!
One day...
Matt
From: "Bob Branstetter" <RBranstetter1@kc.rr.com>
Subject: DAT not permanent?
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:39:57 -0600
Over the past few weeks, I noticed more than one person saying that they
were selling/trading their DAT masters because they had transferred the
contents to CDR because they wanted something more permanent. Over the past
few years, I have transferred many of my old analog reel to reel tapes to
CDR. Some of the tapes dated back to the late 1950's. I was pleasantly
surprised that the old tapes were in remarkably good audio condition. A
couple of years later, I was listening to the CD's that I had made from the
tapes. Most of them were fine, but unfortunately one of the CD's would not
play on any machine I own. I have no idea why the CD is defective, but the
fact remains that if that were my only copy, it would be lost forever.
Because I kept the old tapes, I was able to make an other CD.
My point is that CD's have not been around long enough to be considered
"Permanent". By all means transfer your DAT masters to CDR, but don't get
rid of the DAT's after you do it. I a few years, you may regret that you
got rid of them.
Bob B.
From: "Matt" <matt@mattb.net>
Subject: Re: MINI Shotguns
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:40:34 -0700
> From: Abattement@aol.com
> Subject: MINI Shotguns
> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 23:05:03 EST
>
> I am trying to find the company that was selling Mini-shotgun microphones.
> You could use them for stealth taping. I lost the link when my computer
> crashed. I can't seem to find them now. Does anyone know what I'm
talking
> about?? Do you know where to find them??
> Thanks for the help.
> Joe
>
> ------------------------------
Sound Professionals has them. www.soundprofessionals.com.
Matt
From: "Matt" <matt@mattb.net>
Subject: RE: ISO: Stand, Bogen/Manfratto?
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:43:02 -0700
>
> From: GarBwhaler@aol.com
> Subject: ISO: Stand, Bogen/Manfratto?
> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 23:16:43 EST
>
> i've been looking for a decent stand for about a year now... the
rediculous prices have kept me away for a while and i have used a sort of
home-made one that goes to 14 feet... but i want to get a nice one now...
does anyone know where i could look for these stands... i have tried many
many diefferent photo stores etc... i'm hoping you guys can speak from
experiance and offer a link to a place i might look for a stand...
> is anyone selling a stand?...
> i'd like to get one thats 13ft or higher if possible... and id really
rather not spend a crazy ammount for it, like 200 bucks...
> thanks for the help,
> -garrett
> s.bastable@villanova.edu
>
> ------------------------------
>
I got a big Bogen Avenger light stand and adaptors to go to standard tripod
and mic threaded mounts. It's nice, but bulky. I'd also like to get a
smaller, unobtrusive one too. I got it at some online pro a/v & photo place
for about $75. A google search should bring up a bunch of places to check
out.
Matt
From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?L_Se=E1n_Kennedy?= <liam@xo.com>
Subject: Media Supply Updated Pricing
Reply-To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Se=E1n_Kennedy?= <liam@fedney.tech.xo.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 14:03:14 -0500
In a past discussion on vendor posts to DAT-heads,
I offered that I am willing to forward price updates
if vendors do not want to post directly to DAT-heads.
Not certain if that is what Joe wanted, but below
is a link to current DAT-heads specials (you
may need to paste the link together). Media Supply
has been around DAT-heads for a while, but I do not
have personal experience ordering from them.
Sean
========== Forwarded Message ==========
Date: Friday, January 01, 1904 2:37 AM -0500
From: Joe Navalance <joe.navalance@mediasupply.com>
To: "postmaster@datheads.phish.net" <postmaster@datheads.phish.net>
Subject: link
HI! I am with Media Supply out of PA. I dont know if we have spoken in the
past but we have created a link just for tapers and traders. The link
includes Mitsui 74 minute cdrs for .51 and taiyo yuden 80 minute cdrs for
.29 each. I wanted to make you aware of the link and see if you can please
notify the folks on your list of the link if you think it will benefit them.
They can call or email me to discuss better prices for volume purchases.
Please let me know what you think. Thanks, Joe Navalance, Media Supply,
800-681-9214
http://store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?cdrplanet+BunxeJ+taptradqualc.html
========== End Forwarded Message ==========
From: Sean Kennedy <liam@xo.com>
Subject: Rough Vendor Guidelines
Reply-To: Sean Kennedy <liam@fedney.tech.xo.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 14:04:53 -0500
Pricing structure changes and new product announcements
are generally welcome. Price matching or bettering ok.
Monthly newsletter stuff should probably be done offlist,
quarterly general updates seems more comfortable. Response
to technology questions with "we offer..." should try to
be as unbiased as possible and offer alternatives, but we
live with some onsided reporting response. Flame wars between
vendors are silly and only hurt you in the eyes of your consumers.
For the consumer something other than media, there is
a value in getting good customer service... so
shop around, but don't nickle&dime someone if they
provide truely superior support (shipping to you
at a show, loaners...).
As I mentioned in the Media Supply Update note,
I am willing to forward information for vendors,
but cannot guarantee 100% success or prompt response.
Sean
From: Andrew Haley <aph@cambridge.redhat.com>
Subject: DA-302 woes
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:06:31 +0000 (GMT)
I'm having a very geat deal of trouble with a fairly new DA-302. It
works fine for a week or two and then the error rate climbs through
the roof. It's been back to Tascam once and they cleaned it and left
it on soak for a while. I get it back and now the bad stuff is
happening again.
So, DA-302 owners. Any problems? Compatibilty issues with any tapes?
Andrew.
From: "DRider" <Hawkwind@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: DATs for sale? /. . . argument there
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 14:36:32 -0500
Well Sean......
It's the kind of "edge" that your post starts off with that I was getting at
in my post:
> You don't want to read anything more from others, but expect
> us to read 96 lines from you? C'mon, give me a break!
"One Break coming up!" - David Lee Roth
Those 2 lines are like a punch in the eye. Most mammals that I know WILL
retaliate if punched in the eye. It's only natural.
Many of the posts on this topic have been one punch in the eye after
another.
I was merely saying, "do we know when to respond vs. when to let it go?"
You are correct. We need to listen to each other. Everyone on this list
probably thinks they have pretty good listening skills. So why punch them in
the eye?
We listen w/ our ears not our eyes.
"What?!" ....you say, as you read w/ your eyes.
This is an analogy!
The point is that you can make a point in a constructive manner w/o that
"edge".
You can post valid points in a constructive way w/out punching someone in
the eye.
Your first 2 lines there were in the destructive realm. Reading further down
your post, one can see that I must have said something constructive. But
that is overshadowed by your opening sarcasm which is what people will
remember. That's why most news articles start out w/ the most important
details first.
If I took the opening part out of my post or modified it, maybe it would
have had a more constructive tone. And in turn, I would not have gotten
punched in the eye. I can honestly say that if your post did not start out
the way it did, I would not be responding at all.
Do you get it?
If you start out being constructive there is greater potential for the flow
of more constructive discussion. Or people take that concept, learn from it
and move on w/ no need for ANY discussion at all. As soon as something
destructive is added to the discussion, deterioration is inevitable.
Calling someone a "copyright cop" is an example of that punch in the eye.
Is that constructive or destructive?
I have not counted my lines, but it seems as though that question leads
right back to the "subject" at hand doesn't it?
You make the call.
PYITE
D
===== Original Message =====
From: "Sean Kennedy" <liam@xo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 12:48 PM
Subject: re: DATs for sale? /. . . argument there
> You don't want to read anything more from others, but expect
> us to read 96 lines from you? C'mon, give me a break!
>
> I think we may have reached the limits of people's
> ability to listen to each other which is too bad.
> (I think there are a lot listening, but they are
> not necessarily those speaking.) I do agree with
> Darrin that most people hold a fairly middle ground
> practical.
>
> Truth is, as difficult as this discussion may be
> it is quite relevent. For sale posts are a significant
> part of the digest these days. There also is the common
> issue of getting musicians to trust tapers, part of what
> Kip has discussed is the role that appearance of ethics and
> just attitude toward tapers can play. In any case, I will
> probably give this a day to play out and then summarize
> what I think we learned from the discussion.
>
> Sean
From: "Stanley W. Smith" <swsmith@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: re: re: DATs for sale?
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:06:19 -0600
Discussion is a good thing, folks. This is a concencus discussion group,
not a dictatorship, and the
free exchange of ideas, technical solutions, and opinions needs to continue.
As for this thread going "on and on", it seems to pop up about every six
months (like the Nieman
Marcus $500 cookie recipe, and other 'net-myths', it has a sort of
half-life...), which leads me to
believe there are unresolved aspects of it that continue to need to be
discussed and evaluated
by the taping community. If you don't care to read any more discussion, use
the page down key.
Ignoring it won't change it. Not discussing it because you're bored with it
won't change it.
If it's a problem that continues to bother you, then act to fix it.
I've seen for-sale copies of shows I've personally mastered and recorded in
the CD resale shops.
I tend to take a set of keys to the discs, or a large magnet to the tapes...
Then I speak to the shop
owners, and loudly discuss why these are not commercially allowable, or
legally salable 'product'.
Then I track down the folks who got copies from me... and erase their
mailing addresses... ;)
If it's a particularly heinous violation, the band and management may be
notified. From there,
legal procedings can and have been known to occur.
Selling off your DAT collection for a reasonable amount for the cost of the
media, equivalent trade
value in other media, and adding fair value for shipping/mailing costs isn't
theft. It's _housecleaning_!
With that said, my opinion on the matter is that if a show was initially
allowed to be recorded by
the musicians involved, then we as tapers/traders/archivists/collectors have
some responsibility
in keeping that musical event out of the hands of for-profit resellers. The
music was a _gift_,
and we hold no particular ownership of it. Unless you are specifically
contracted by the band or
management to record a performance, you have no legal right to profit from
the recording.
By any legal, ethical or moral standard, it just ain't yours!
If someone has stolen, packaged, and sold music that you've helped to record
and distribute, then
you bear some responsibility for that, and may owe some time and effort to
correcting the situation.
(I also hold that most commercial recording companies are as guilty of theft
from the artists as any
fan-boy bootlegger with a burner and some primitive cut & paste skills
selling discs at the local
swap-meet, but that's a totally different issue. ;) . . . )
Now go out and record something, then give away the tapes...
'Nuff said, I'm out... ;)
Stan Smith
From: Alex Prestin <wakko@bitey.net>
Subject: DA-P1 stuff
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:21:31 -0500 (EST)
> A school I work for just bought a brand-new DA-P1. I
> have only used it to record twice, but both times it
> would not unpack the tape. When I try to FF the tape,
> it will run for a second or two, then give me and
> "end" message. On both occasions, the tapes were Sony
> DGCs. I unpacked the tapes on another machine with no
> problems, and then the DA-P1 accepted them.
Try playing the tape for a few seconds before unpacking. It sounds crazy,
but it's saved my ass on a few occasions.
Also, I've found that powering my P1 off between switching tapes cuts down
on this bug immensely.
> Anyone have any ideas why this happens?
Probably a firmware "feature".
- A.P.
From: "kip martin" <onefourfive@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: cash for DATs--and a WOB offer
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:29:02 -0500
drider said:
>Isn't that what all this point counterpoint is really all about??
no. unless i misread your post, i think you missed the point. it wasnt about
selling shows on ebay, it was about the grey ethical area surrounding the
liquidating of ones old DATs for cash.
>Can we PLEASE move on now?
YOU may be tired of the issue, but i got two emails from guys saying i'd
changed their opinions slightly. thats good. new people on this list may not
have heard as much on the subject as you have and it doesnt hurt anyone to
look at a controversy from a fresh viewpoint (ie; my viewpoint as an
recorded performer AND trader).
i clearly posted the title of the thread in the subject line so that ANYONE
who was tiring of this issue could move past it via DELETE key.
which brings up another point: if you are tired of the discussion, why are
you reading it? or are you NOT reading it as i indicated in my 1st point
above?
i hereby promise to move on.
thanks for the bandwidth. now...as my WOB tax, i offer a 1989 Bluegrass
Album Band show featuring my employer Richard Bennett on guitar and lead
vocals to anyone who is sick of my ranting, for B&P!
kip martin
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From: Alex Prestin <wakko@bitey.net>
Subject: Re: ISO: Stand, Bogen/Manfratto?
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:29:25 -0500 (EST)
> i'd like to get one thats 13ft or higher if possible... and id really
> rather not spend a crazy ammount for it, like 200 bucks...
masterpieceav sells an air-cushioned Bogen stand for $140. If that's not
too "crazy", you can buy it at the following horrendously long URL:
http://www.audiorage.com/product.asp?r=%2D1&SKU=MANF%2DMF3405&web%5Fname=&price%5Fhide=0&subcat1=&subcat2=&subcat3=&subcat4=&subcat=8&subcat5=&subcat6=2663&subcat7=3503&subcat8=2715&Subsite%5FName=Masterpiece+AV&mscsid=4S4NU4QQCFNR9NV6BSWWAJ3LB2GB5RGC
If that URL doesn't work, just go to www.audiorage.com and search for
MF3405. They also sell a 17' stand, but I'd really like to know who runs
their mics at 17'.
- A.P.
From: Joshua <sprung598@yahoo.com>
Subject: Hank Williams III board access
Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:03:38 -0700
gettin' psyched for some Hank3/Assjack shows here pretty soon - I'm
wondering if anyone has had luck getting soundboard patches in the
past? Thanks!
-Josh
1/29 The Fox Bolder, CO
1/30 Liquid Joe's Salt Lake, UT
1/31 The Starlight Ft. Collins, CO
2/1 8150 Club Vail, CO
2/2 Bluebird Theater Denver, CO
2/4 Continental Club Houston, TX
2/5 Continental Club Houston, TX
2/6 Continental Club Austin, TX
2/8 The Labratory Brewing Co San Antoinio, TX
2/9 Trees Dallas, TX
2/10 Red Dirt Cafe Norman, OK
2/11 Proud Larry's Oxford, MS
2/13 TBA . 2/14 TBA .
2/15 Jack Rabbit's Jacksonville, FL
2/16 Highland County Fair Sebring, FL
2/17 TBA .
2/19 TBA .
2/20 TBA .
2/21 TBA .
2/22 Alley Katz Richmond, VA
2/23 TBA .
2/24 TBA .
2/27 or 28 Country Radio Seminar show at The Blue Grass Inn Nashville, TN
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
From: randy@monkeybiz.Stanford.EDU
Subject: small firewire drives
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 15:06:08 -0800 (PST)
are already available...up to 30 GB in a package about the same
size as an M1.
But hooking up such a drive to a MiniMe wouldn't do much good...
you still need a computer that runs software to take the incoming
data stream and let you write it out as a file/files.
-rand0m
From: Dean <dean@deanos.net>
Subject: ISO: Old Kid Creole and the Coconuts
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:30:53 -0800
Hey All,
Hope all is well.
Is there any old Kid Creole and the Coconuts shows out there? Here's
my list http://www.deanos.net/dat.html .
Thanks
Dean
--
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