DAT-heads Digest #244
Contents:
trade ("J. Garcia")
jon spencer, again ("rob landis")
Re: How to record a symphonic orchestra ? (Dennis Bathory-Kitsz)
Skynyrd @ Sunrise Musical Theater 3/08/02 Woops.... I did it again! ("Bob Silver")
ISO: R.E.M. Unplugged 2.0 Audio or Video (Keith Shapiro)
ISO: Tony Guagliardo ("Vikas Bhatia")
new address notification ("Neil Sturtevant")
Re: hopefully my last post on the bad trader wierdness situation (Joe Rioux)
Aerosmith Japan 2002 ("trow_rico")
Great method of Mono > Synthethic Stereo ("James Simpson")
Re: How to record a symphonic orchestra ? (Tom McCreadie)
ISO: Deftones at Roskilde Festival 2001 ("Steve Mew")
ISO: Ani Difranco 3-7-02 Sacramento Anyone tape this show? ("Taperguy")
ISO Jackson Browne 2/27/02 Fox Theatre (Susan)
QOTSA 3-7-02 Troubadour in Los Angeles (Brian)
MONDO GENERATOR 3-13-02 at the Troubadour in Los Angeles (Brian)
re:jon spencer blues explosion ("matt Sohn")
Cheap DAT storage at IKEA (Mark Mayhle)
RE: How to record a symphonic orchestra ? ("matt Sohn")
modify/buy a fm radio that goes to 75.475? (Monty-Jay)
From: "J. Garcia" <elektrik@navegalia.com>
Subject: trade
Reply-to: elektrik@navegalia.com
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:46:46 +0100
This is a message for David Mobley.
We agreed to swap some recordings, but I have no reply to my e-mails.
David, please get in touch!
I already got burned these CD-Rs for you:
belle & sebastian: benicassim 2001
autour de lucie, barcelona 2001
autour de lucie, acoustic fnac, barcelona 2001
senor coconut, barcelona 2001
polak, barcelona 2000
coil, barcelona sonar 2000
add n to x, barcelona sonar 2000
goldfrapp, barcelona sonar 2000
goldfrapp, barcelona 2001
Thanks and sorry about the waste of bandwidth.
Jose Garcia
elektrik@navegalia.com
From: "rob landis" <nocturnalsunshine@hotmail.com>
Subject: jon spencer, again
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 04:52:05 -0500
in light of the recent posts...
i have a jon spencer blues explosion SBD DAT master, that i haven't had a
chance to trade out yet. i would like to publicly offer it out to anyone who
cares to hear it ;)
recorded at the palace in hollywood CA, 10/20/01...i had board access for
the melvins, who played right before jsbx, so i just left a tape running.
tape on :)
rob
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From: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz <bathory@maltedmedia.com>
Subject: Re: How to record a symphonic orchestra ?
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 09:09:21 -0500
>From: "Marco Santini" <marcosantini@tin.it>
>Subject: How to record a symphonic orchestra ?
>Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:26:19 +0100
>
>I've been asked to record a springtime festival and the opening concert will
>be a 40 elements symphonic orchestra.
>Do you have any suggestion to share with me on mics placement ? The concert
>will be held in a church, so the musicians will be quite close one to the
>other.
I'm sure you'll get lots of advice!
In what is basically an unknown situation, use a simple setup. I'm often
called on to record in churches, schools, and various unpredictable halls.
I use a single point stereo microphone set back as far as the musicians are
wide -- if the musicians are 25 feet from left to right, I set up about
20-23 feet behind the conductor. Keep the mic high enough so there's an
unobstructed path to all the instruments. This is the safest choice if this
is your first experience recording an orchestra.
(You can experiment with more separated mics, or phased array pairs, etc.,
if you have a second machine to record on; it will give you some
comparisons for the future. You could also use multiple mics over the
orchestra into a multi-track recorder, but this is very difficult to get
right and can produce phase hell during mixdown.)
Make some rehearsal recordings if you can. Use DAT or hard disk recording,
not minidisc, which has compression that's very obvious in symphonic
recording, which can go from the quietest string harmonics to very loud
percussion. Keep the controls on manual, and don't ride gain; set up so you
can record the loudest portions.
Be careful with hot microphones so you don't overload the preamp -- you'd
be surprised how loud orchestras actually are! Use a mixer instead of the
DAT input if you can. (I used a pair of very hot mics for what was supposed
to be a small chorus -- to which, for the last piece, they added brass and
timpani. Very bad.)
If you have time for test recordings, move the stereo mic back in about
5-foot increments, and also at different heights. For some orchestras,
especially school orchestras, the lower height will be good because strings
are often weak. Lowering the mic blocks some of the louder brass and winds.
Good luck!
Dennis
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From: "Bob Silver" <bocabob@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Skynyrd @ Sunrise Musical Theater 3/08/02 Woops.... I did it again!
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:14:45 -0500
Once again a great spot to stealth, got great sound pressure from the stage,
low audience.....and once again, I have the MMS's, Mick ATT set to dab's
creating a clipped version of a great show!
Other than putting tape over the switch (which came off), is there any way
of disabling this switch...I never need to use!
Also is there anyone out there that did record this show, I'm bummed and
could really use a pick me up by getting a nice version of the show!
Since this will be the last show that they will play at the Sunrise, which
will be converting to a Church...after the three day Barry Manilow run in
May! What a way to go!
Since that is my goal when I attend concerts now, to come away with a
memento of the shows I attend! (And I have come away with some nice
versions ;)
BWT...Skynyrd 01/21/01 Sunrise Musical Theater
Gather the memories and spread the love!!
Peace,
Boca Bob Silver
~~ )<///%> ~~~~ )><///%> ~~~~ )><///%> ~~
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/b/o/bocabob/TAPELIST.HTM
http://www.thephilzone.com/
~~ )<///%> ~~~~ )><///%> ~~~~ )><///%> ~~
From: Keith Shapiro <keither@torilive.org>
Subject: ISO: R.E.M. Unplugged 2.0 Audio or Video
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:18:42 -0500 (EST)
If any of you caught this on tape, could you please give me a buzz? It's
for a dear friend with cancer (yeah, sucks).
Thanks,
Keith
--
Keith D. Shapiro
keither@torilive.org
http://www.torilive.org/
From: "Vikas Bhatia" <vikas10@hotmail.com>
Subject: ISO: Tony Guagliardo
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:12:29 -0600
sorry for the public post.
Tony,
My reply to your message keeps getting returned. please contact me when you
read this.
thanks
BWT: 2 B+P for PJ Sacto98 matrix mix (winners will be notified)
From: "Neil Sturtevant" <esteyes@cox.net>
Subject: new address notification
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 08:04:36 -0800
formerly: esteyes@home.com
currently: esteyes@cox.net
will not change unless cox changes
thanx
Neil Sturtevant
"shadowboxing the apocalypse,
wandering the land"
800 Lacebark St
San Marcos, CA 92069
list at: www.tapercities.com/ShakedownStreet/esteyes
From: Joe Rioux <jrioux@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: hopefully my last post on the bad trader wierdness situation
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 11:21:26 -0500
> From: "Slipkid" <slipkid@voicenet.com>
> Subject: hopefully my last post on the bad trader wierdness situation
>
> many people have continued to be interested in this situation & have asked
> me to post back to the group with ongoing developments
This whole thing seems pretty simple to me. Delete the guys
name and move on. What's the big deal? Besides, why do you feel
it necessary to keep this list up?
I tend to view all these "bad trader" messages as resulting from
either impatience or poor communication.
Joe
From: "trow_rico" <trow_rico@hotmail.com>
Subject: Aerosmith Japan 2002
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:34:52 +0900
Hi All
I have all 6shows of Aerosmith in Japan!
01/25,27 Osaka
01/29 Fukuoka
01/31 Nagoya
02/02,03 Tokyo
They played many OLD Aerosmith.
Sick as a dog,Come together,Chip away the stone,Last child,Rats in the
cellar,No surprise and more
I'd like to DAT trade.
If you are interested,please contact me offlist.
Thanks
trow_rico@hotmail.com
From: "James Simpson" <jsim@flash.net>
Subject: Great method of Mono > Synthethic Stereo
Reply-To: "James Simpson" <jsim@flashnet.prodigy.net>
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 12:06:47 -0600
I just discovered a way to transform a Mono DSBD to a very realistic
sounding synthetic stereo feel by using Sound Forge 4.5 "Multi-Tap Delay".
I basically set all the effects, except "Number of Taps", to 0. I set "Dry
Out" to 0%, "Wet Out" to 100%, both "Modulation Depth" and "Feedback" to 0%,
"Number of Taps" set to 2, "Current Tap" set to 1, "Pan" set to 0%, and
"Delay" set to 1ms. It doesn't sound "fake" or artificial to my ears, and
in fact seems to bring everything more up-close, vocals especially seem to
sound more up-close, almost as if the singer moved closer to the microphone.
And I don't, at least with mono DSBD's, notice any artifacts (it doesn't
seem to work as well with audience tapes for some reason). It's critical to
make sure both channels are *identical*. By simply copying and pasting the
better channel (for example, if one channel is louder than the other) over
the weaker channel, both channels are identical (if you don't do this, the
delay between the channels is misaligned and it will sound phasey). I've
used this on several mono DSBD's (Steely Dan's St. Louis DSBD, a Del McCoury
DSBD, Burning 1986 Sunsplash) and the results, especially listening on
headphones, are really quite amazing, from a very flat, one-dimensional
sound, to a very open, more up-close, fuller sound. Of course, I first burn
a CD of the straight mono DSBD for archiving, but never listen to them,
since the sound is so much better after using "Multi-Tap Delay". I've tried
other methods, like using reverb or delaying one channel, and they all sound
flat and fake in comparison to the method above. BTW, "Multi-Tap Delay" has
a preset called "Channel delay for stereo stimulation", but it simply pans
the sound hard left, making the left channel louder, which sucks. Instead,
"Pan" should be set to center (0%). If anyone tries this technique, I'd be
curious what they think of the results. Anyone know of any other methods
for going from Mono>Synthetic stereo?
James
From: Tom McCreadie <mccreadi@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: How to record a symphonic orchestra ?
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:44:59 +0100
Marco Santini in #243:
>
>I've been asked to record a springtime festival and the opening concert will
>be a 40 elements symphonic orchestra.
>Do you have any suggestion to share with me on mics placement ? The concert
>will be held in a church, so the musicians will be quite close one to the
>other.
Keep it simple, especially since this sounds like it your first try. A
single stereo pair of small capsule condensers behind and above the
conductor's head will already give you about 90% of what you can achieve.
Any balance/clarity shortcomings - with the quieter instruments etc. - are
more than compensated by the sheer integrity and believability you will get
from sticking to two mics.
Safe configurations are omni's/Jecklin Disk or cardioids/ORTF. As a
starter, try the omni's 1 metre behind the conductor, 4 m from the floor,
aimed at the orchestra centre; the cardioids go further back, say 3-4 m
behind, 3 m from floor, pointing at the back row. Height adjustment to
balance out the front and back rows is more critical with the Jeckin Disk
(It helps if the players are on staggered risers, in a gentle arc, rather
than in a horseshoe shape.) Typically the mics will subtend an included
angle of about 90-100 deg to the orchestra outside edges. If the church has
a wide centre aisle, you can generally place a stand there with no
complaints from the audience, but it is far better for visuals and
vibration-damping to suspend the mics on a laterally-strung rope.
Bear in mind that you are essentially miking the total hall sound, so you
really need to nail the direct/indirect balance. It helps enormously to be
able to attend a rehearsal, but do allow for the sound drying out when the
hall fills up with audience. A tip I came across, which does work for me,
is to prowl around the hall, with a finger jammed in one ear, listening in
mono (for ORTF, cup the free ear): Plonk the mic stand where the balance
sounds OK and tweak it from there. In my experience, if the playback reverb
sounds fine on headphones it may end up sounding a touch too wet on speakers.
Which technique to chose? ORTF for slightly better stereo localization and
less extraneous noises; Jecklin Disk for more body, woomph, lushness,
superior instrument tone, but fuzzier loudspeaker stereo. With care its
hard to make a bad recording, easy to make a good recording, but elusively
difficult to make an excellent recording.
Tom
p.s. You can cobble up a J/D from a glued stack of old LP's and carpet
underlay cladding. I find that the most rewarding sound comes if you
destroy Barry Mannilov or Nana Mouskouri Lp's for this purpose <g>.
From: "Steve Mew" <paragon_of_virtue@hotmail.com>
Subject: ISO: Deftones at Roskilde Festival 2001
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 11:48:43 -0800
looking for this show for a while now. i'd be cool if you knew the source
info for it too. Lots of other stuff to trade for it.
thanks
---
BWT: first 2 who email me get b+p z(cd only) of recent vancouver ozzy show.
only winners will be notified. use DHeads B+P for subject
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From: "Taperguy" <taperguy@hotmail.com>
Subject: ISO: Ani Difranco 3-7-02 Sacramento Anyone tape this show?
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:05:44 -0800
Hello,
I taped the night before in Santa Rosa and would like to find a copy of the
Sacramento show. Anyone got it?
Taperguy
From: Susan <sboichat@attbi.com>
Subject: ISO Jackson Browne 2/27/02 Fox Theatre
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:09:05 -0800
Did anyone tape the Jackson Browne show on 2/27 at the Fox Theatre in
Redwood City?
thanks
Susan
From: Brian <el_flaco_x@yahoo.com>
Subject: QOTSA 3-7-02 Troubadour in Los Angeles
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:53:03 -0800 (PST)
Hey, did anybody tape this show? Please get in touch
if you did. Lots to trade, including QOTSA masters.
Thanks,
Brian
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From: Brian <el_flaco_x@yahoo.com>
Subject: MONDO GENERATOR 3-13-02 at the Troubadour in Los Angeles
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:19:53 -0800 (PST)
Hey again, is anybody going to tape this show? This
is a QOTSA side project. Tickets are still available
through ticketbastard (www.ticketmaster.com). Please
get in touch if you're planning to tape this show.
Thanks,
Brian
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From: "matt Sohn" <mahatma@megsinet.net>
Subject: re:jon spencer blues explosion
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 19:06:33 -0600
Hey! I like Jon Spencer!
Not enuf to bother taping him tho..
-mahatma
From: Mark Mayhle <mark@mayhle.com>
Subject: Cheap DAT storage at IKEA
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 19:03:54 -0600 (CST)
So my wife dragged me to IKEA today, and I wound up spending more than she
did. They were closing out something called "Moppe", listed as "Shelf
with Drawers", for $14.95. It measures 47" wide by 11" front to back by a
bit under 4" high, and has 3 drawers going across, each measuring roughly
14-1/2" wide by 9-1/2" front to back by just under 3" deep. Each drawer
is a near-perfect fit for 69 DATs, 4 across by 15 deep, with 3 additional
blocks of 3 rotated 90 degrees. They're nicely constructed of unfinished
birch plywood, with the back of the box and the bottom of each drawer
being particle board. So my purchase of 10 units gives me neat storage
for over 2000 DATs for $150! Can't beat that unless you picked up an old
card catalog at a rummage sale.
They are also a perfect fit for about 46 audio cassettes per drawer.
The Seattle store probably had 30-40 left after I did my damage;
presumably other stores have them too although who knows? Happy hunting!
--
Mark Mayhle
mark@mayhle.com
From: "matt Sohn" <mahatma@megsinet.net>
Subject: RE: How to record a symphonic orchestra ?
Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 19:18:14 -0600
I would recommend a widely spaced pair of Omnis (20-30 ft.) on high stands
maybe a third of the way back in the room. Spacing and proximity depend on
the dimensions and reverberational characteristics of the room. If you have
the option you can put spot mikes for soloists. Again, if the option is
available, you could run a couple of rigs with different configurations.
Or you could hang a couple of cardioids in X/Y over the conductor's head..
-mahatma
From: Monty-Jay <montyjay@gci.net>
Subject: modify/buy a fm radio that goes to 75.475?
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:31:23 -0900
ok,
I know this has been brought up before, but i would like your input and
possible help. does anyone know of a cheap way to build/modify or buy an
existing ALD receiver? i am interested in this subject and would
appreciate any kind of help/links/whatever, thanks!
-monty-jay
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