DAT-heads Digest #245
Contents:
ISO: Sex Mob w/medeski: Knitting Factory 2-28-02 (JBABC0CK@aol.com)
RE: Jon Spencer ("Graham Nelson")
50 pack Fuji's for $4.95 @ Best Buy! ("Bob Silver")
Sir Paul (Tom Cavanaugh)
Re: Cheap DAT storage at IKEA (Drew Caruso)
Re: ("Tom Reizes")
RATDOG (CCFLAMEWORKS@webtv.net)
PC Digital Sound cards? ("Red Eye")
ISO: Foo Fighters Olympic Medals DAT ("Michael Hanson")
notwist ("J. Garcia")
Re: Cheap DAT storage at IKEA (Mark Mayhle)
FS Pair of AKG C1000S mics with extras ("Seth Goldberger")
Dat liquidation (JEBAAD@cs.com)
The Death of DAT? (CatalystX)
RE How to record an orchestra (LONG) (richmays)
From: JBABC0CK@aol.com
Subject: ISO: Sex Mob w/medeski: Knitting Factory 2-28-02
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 05:25:09 EST
Well, it's finally happened.
The once in a lifetime recording of the one-off gig, supporting my favorite
CD of the year: "Sex-Mob Does Bond."
Got there early, got the right spot.
Got great sound on the tape-- a perfect mix of Monitor, instruments & PA.
Now I'm listening to the tape for the first time and it's got drop-outs
everywhere.
Sounds like the mic jack is slipping in and out of the deck.
Arrrrgh!
Now, am I an idiot, or what?
This is killing me.
The only other time they did this show I was out of town and it's not going
to happen again.
Now I know that the straight 1/8 inch plug for the coresounds mics doesn't
fit as snug as it should into the D8, so I've wrapped my pouch to be sure it
stays put. I was sure I had a foolproof system. But tonight it didn't and--
ouch! Not even one complete song. Ruined. I can't even patch this mess and
it's probably the best sound I've ever caught on tape.
Arrrrgh!
So what am I looking at? Do I have to reservice the deck and get new plugs
installed (ouch!) -- do i have to send the mics back for a new (preferably
L-shaped) plug -- do I have to create a whole new more delicate system of
wiring it all up? Or is my entire life just going to become a mess of tape
wrapped around my gear? The problem would be solved if it were just snug, but
Nooooooo....
I know this has happened to some of you before, so after you stopped
screaming and banging your head against the wall, how did you deal with the
connection?
More to the point, though--did anyone reading this catch the show who can
spin me a copy?
BW tax: MMW Red cross Benefit at Tonic 9/18/01 to the first 3 people that
reply to tell me what a loser I am.
jb
From: "Graham Nelson" <graham@nelson3.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Jon Spencer
Reply-To: <graham@nelson3.freeserve.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:58:53 -0000
Jon was a reader and sometime contributor to another list of which I am
still a member - the NakList, for fans of Nakamichi cassette decks. He and
his team may be anti-DAT for the recording of his gigs, but I've a feeling
it might be more because he'd prefer us to use analogue, probably a portable
Nakamichi MR1 or a nice Nakamichi ZX-9, or (better still) ZXL1000, on a
table top!!
In fact, he was very helpful to me, offering good advice on what equipment
to buy (cheaply) so that I could begin archiving a collection of 78rpms. (I
gather he has a large collection of blues and jazz on 78s.) However, he
vanished into the night when one of the other members outed him as being THE
Jon Spencer and made a fuss about it!
Graham
---
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From: "Bob Silver" <bocabob@bellsouth.net>
Subject: 50 pack Fuji's for $4.95 @ Best Buy!
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 08:46:53 -0500
Just saw it this morning in the Paper!
50 pack Fuji's for $4.95 @ Best Buy!
Gather the memories and spread the love!!
Peace,
Boca Bob Silver
~~ )<///%> ~~~~ )><///%> ~~~~ )><///%> ~~
http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/b/o/bocabob/TAPELIST.HTM
http://www.thephilzone.com/
~~ )<///%> ~~~~ )><///%> ~~~~ )><///%> ~~
From: Tom Cavanaugh <Meurglys3@att.net>
Subject: Sir Paul
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 09:28:14 -0500
Hello Heads
Looking for 3 tickets for Paul McCartneys concet at the FU Center in
Philadelphia on 4-16-02.
Please contact me if you have extra tickets or know of anyone else who does.
Thanks,
Tom
From: Drew Caruso <drewc.atc@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Cheap DAT storage at IKEA
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:31:52 -0500
I have been using one of these for some time...the only bad thing with
them is that you need to make sure you clean all of the sawdust remains
from them when you get it home. Otherwise I love it and it is simple to
use and perfectly stores the tapes.
Drew
www.geocities.com/drewcatc
<<<So my wife dragged me to IKEA today, and I wound up spending more
than she
did. They were closing out something called "Moppe", listed as "Shelf
with Drawers", for $14.95. It measures 47" wide by 11" front to back by
a
bit under 4" high, and has 3 drawers going across, each measuring
roughly
14-1/2" wide by 9-1/2" front to back by just under 3" deep. Each drawer
is a near-perfect fit for 69 DATs, 4 across by 15 deep, with 3
additional
blocks of 3 rotated 90 degrees. They're nicely constructed of
unfinished
birch plywood, with the back of the box and the bottom of each drawer
being particle board. So my purchase of 10 units gives me neat storage
for over 2000 DATs for $150! Can't beat that unless you picked up an
old
card catalog at a rummage sale.
They are also a perfect fit for about 46 audio cassettes per drawer.
The Seattle store probably had 30-40 left after I did my damage;
presumably other stores have them too although who knows? Happy
hunting!
--
Mark Mayhle
mark@mayhle.com>>>
From: "Tom Reizes" <treizes1@nycap.rr.com>
Subject: Re:
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 10:45:00 -0500
Are you getting paid for this, b/c if you are, and there will be an audience
(and God forbid any type of paper prgoram being handed out to said audience)
then you will NOT want to set you mics up far back in the room.
First off: assuming a church has GOOD acoustics (even remotely) is chance-y,
Second: How far off the road is the church (i.e. is there any possibilitty
of picking up the low rumble of a semi passing in the distance?)
If you are recording classical, you are going to be faced with a wide
dynamic range and don't want the quiet parts marred by the sweet sounds of
civilisation b/c you placed the mics too far from the signal you want, so
you pick up the noise you don't.
Third: X-Y over the conducters head: A good suggestion, but chances are you
are going to want two things out of your Orchestra recording 1) A wide
stereo image, and 2) accurate placement of instruments within that image.
X-Y will not give you those things, but rather a highly focused point-source
between your speakers on playback... X-Y = good mono-compatibility and
"small" stereo image, accurate time domain, but a lack-lustre listening
experience.
My $.10:
GO ORTF over the conductor's head, or more likely in your situation,
directly behind the conductor (give enough room for the conductorto feel
comfortable - 3' clearnace - and discuss similar options with them well
before the performance).
ORTF will also work somewhat further back in the room (upto ~10'), but at a
certain point you will want to tighten the angle between the mics to avoid
unnecessary reflections.
The benefits of ORTF: Include the two I mentioned in my orignal third point.
1) W - I - D - E stereo image, and 2) accurate placement of the instruments
within that image +/- 5-10% between your stereo speakers at home (vs. X-Y
which will result in a tiny orchestra floating in a spot between you stereo
speakers.)
Final thoughts: I have recorded in many strange rooms, and sometimes you
have to take what you can get.
Don't be led astray by misconceptions about how sound and microphones work.
Mics are not flashlights, they pick up sound all around, with varying
attenuation according to the polar pattern ad quality of the mic.
GET A GOOD BOOK on stereo technique (any bruce bartlett book is a great
place to start) and read up.
Remember, you want a good recording of the music with the feel of a room,
not a recording of the room with some music in it.
The closer you can be to a sound source, the better (until you start getting
down the throat of the instrument, or start to severely compromise the
capture of another section of the orchestra). Sure, you want to give the
sound room to grow to it's fullest, but a good set of microphones will
capture this. Besides, have you ever seen a conductor conduct from 2/3's
back in a room, why put you mics there if you don't have to?
This comes from someone who has made mistakes in the past, don't be
surprised on show day when the audience is rustling paper programs, jackets,
taking bathroom breaks and wildly applauding their niece who is the soloist.
Obviously there are many ways you make this recording successful, it really
depends on your equipment and a slew of location related variables.
Another great method if you have the necessary gear would be the already
suggested (previous post) spaced omnis (cut the orch into thirds wit mics at
the 1/3 adn 2/3 marks) strainght on to the orch at listening level. This
would perform excellently, and would avoid the hassle hindering the
audiences view of the conductor and vice-versa when a stand is placed behind
him/her.
Regarding height of mic placement: unless you a stuck recrding from the pews
with the rest of the audience, the mics level with the conductors head, or
just above the orchestra (don't point the mic directly at the violin section
if they a 5 feet away)
btw: ORTF = two cardioids, mic elements spaced 170mm at 110 degrees... this
will SEEM like an extreme angle to the un-initiated and indeed I have had
sound egineers scoff at it when I set up, they are always pleasantly
surprised when they hear the results.
Your mileage may vary, but when the opportunity is ripe, ORTF rules. Spaced
omnis are cool too, but b/c they are not a near-coincident array (ORTF,
NOS, AB) or a coincident (X-Y, blumein, etc.) you will be faced with
potentially exagerated issues in the time domain (phase), but if the church
is small and you keep the spacing down somewhere in the region of up to 10
feet (+/- a couple), you will be fine.
Peace, tr
Slave to the ORTF Bar. The results are just so damn good, consistently ;o)
From: CCFLAMEWORKS@webtv.net
Subject: RATDOG
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:39:02 -0500 (EST)
looking for someone who taped ratdog at the hippodrome in sringfield
mass. did not bring gear . maybe the gu y who got that grey fox cd i
gave away at the show who helped me out at the heartbreak hotel in RI.
will give me a shout
thanks to anyone who can help me !!! chris
From: "Red Eye" <redeye532@hotmail.com>
Subject: PC Digital Sound cards?
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:15:00 -0500
Hi...
I am putting together a new pc, and I'm wondering what is a good sound card
to install with digital inputs so I can transfer DAT recordings directly to
my hardrive for mastering?
Thanks,
Clint
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
From: "Michael Hanson" <mihanson@earthlink.net>
Subject: ISO: Foo Fighters Olympic Medals DAT
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 02:55:57 +0800
Looking for a Foo Fighters DAT (or CD-R) of their set from the Olympic Medals plaza that was aired on CBC. I have a 1st gen VHS, but I'm looking for better audio quality. Have much to trade. Thanks.
Mike
--
---
Mike Hanson
<mihanson@earthlink.net>
From: "J. Garcia" <elektrik@navegalia.com>
Subject: notwist
Reply-to: elektrik@navegalia.com
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:04:30 +0100
looking for someone who will tape any of the notwist shows from their tour
in Europe.
too see the dates: www.notwist.com
i have a few recordings for trade, all from spanish shows:
autour de lucie
goldfrapp
senor coconut
add n to x
coil
polak
sneaker pimps
Jose Garcia
elektrik@navegalia.com
From: Mark Mayhle <mark@mayhle.com>
Subject: Re: Cheap DAT storage at IKEA
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:46:36 -0600 (CST)
On Sun, 10 Mar 2002, Drew Caruso wrote:
> I have been using one of these for some time...the only bad thing with
> them is that you need to make sure you clean all of the sawdust remains
> from them when you get it home. Otherwise I love it and it is simple to
> use and perfectly stores the tapes.
Yes, a good going-over with a tack cloth is needed. My brother suggested
finishing them with a couple coats of tung oil which I may try. The
construction, btw, is glued box joints.
--
Mark Mayhle
mark@mayhle.com
From: "Seth Goldberger" <seth@lauan.com>
Subject: FS Pair of AKG C1000S mics with extras
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 14:45:46 -0500
Hey there,
I am selling my AKG C1000S mics and have listed them on ebay. There are a
group of extras being offered with these mics, so enjoy:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=851080254
The list of what I am selling is as follows:
2 - AKG C1000S Microphones in original mint condition boxes
4 - AKG SA 43 Microphone Mounts (two bonus mounts in case you lose one)
3 - Windscreens (one bonus windscreen in case you lose one)
3 - Hypercardiod capsules (one bonus capsule in case you lose one)
2 - Nine Volt batteries (extras)
2 - Original Owners Manuals
2 - AKG PB1000 Presence Boost Adapters (with info sheets and charts)
2 - Warranty Cards (original)
1 - AKG Acoustics Sticker
1 - Mic T-bar (great for mounting two mics to one stand for live recording
of shows - extra bonus)
-seth
From: JEBAAD@cs.com
Subject: Dat liquidation
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:58:29 EST
I'm looking to get rid of some DAT tapes in batches of 10.
I'll take 10 new tapes (Maxell or Sony) or
a spindle of blank CDR's (FujiFilm, Mitsui, Sony) or
$30.00 for each batch.
Your choice.
Email me for info
Pick any 10 tapes from my list which is located here
http://hmt.com/music/GM/mulebase/Tapelist.HTM
From: CatalystX <catalystx@attbi.com>
Subject: The Death of DAT?
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 15:38:59 -0800
I knew DAT recorders would fade away eventually, but I didn't expect it
to happen quite so soon. They will of course be used for many more
years, but it seems the Sony models will only be available used.
The M1 is the best truly portable recorder I've seen, and it's a shame
that it's reached end of life status already. I know it's not perfect
by any standards though, and have been waiting for a better product to
replace it, but none are available so far.
Audio manufacturers need to get moving on this and design the product
that's leaving a increasingly large hole in the market, a high quality
portable hard drive recorder. I know laptops are becoming popular for
this, but they're simply not practical enough for widespread use.
Here's my idea of the perfect portable recorder, which I'll be happy to
spend a ton of cash on as soon as a company implements it:
24bit/96khz A/D 128x oversampling analog input via XLR/TRS connectors
115db+ of dynamic range
High quality mic preamps with phantom power and selectable attenuator
Unbalanced/balanced line level input
Separate L/R level controls with selectable bass roll-off
Digital input via AES/EBU, coax and optical S/PDIF, Firewire
Unbalanced/balanced analog output via XLR/TRS connectors
Headphone output with a 1/4" connection
Digital output via AES/EDU, coax and optical S/PDIF, Firewire
Selectable sampling rate and word length digital output
Upgradable hard drive with large RAM buffers for skip protection
Rechargable lithium ion battery with at least 6 hours of life
Built-in, fully adjustable compressor
LCD interface, with upgradable OS
Ability to interface with all major operating systems via Firewire
There are probably some more features that could be added, but those are
the most important in my mind. This beast would obviously be expensive
and larger than a M1, but if you dream, you might as well dream big.
I know many of you would be very willing to spend a few thousand on such
a device, I sure would. Less full featured models could be produced of
course, as well as more featured, maybe some with multi-track input for
those with soundboard access or a need to use more microphones.
So, if any audio manufacturers are listening, please wake up and realize
the demand for a product like I described!
Aaron
http://home.attbi.com/~catalystx/trading.html
From: richmays <richmays@comcast.net>
Subject: RE How to record an orchestra (LONG)
Reply-to: richmays@comcast.net
Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:05:31 -0500
Here's my 2 cents worth. First, I used cardioid
stereo pairs for the mains for many years, but the
reality is that there are only a handfull of halls
where that really works well.
X-Y -- lack of "space"-- too mono-sounding. Add
outriggers to increase spread and string presence,
and then you have the decision of where to steer
them in the stereo spectrum, as well as deciding
on balance.
ORTF- get close enough to not lose upper overtones
and the stereo image width of the orchestra is
exaggerated-- ESPECIALLY with a piano concerto!
Same problem with ourigger balance.
DISC- some like it, but the imaging seems
artificial to me-- similar in that way to the
Calrec Soundfield mic.
A-B omnis-- much better, thanks to the generally
superior smoothness and bottom of omnis, but
again, usually needs more upper/lower string
presence than you get from being several feet
behind the podium. In a good church acoustic it
just might work, however. Play around with
separation, but in most acoustics anything wider
than 1 meter is playing with fire (unless you
want a hole in the middle). See
<http://www.dpamicrophones.com/> go to
"Microphone University" then "Stereo Techniques".
Be prepared for a LONG read.
After going around frustrated for a long time I
decided to try 3 spaced omnis, and EUREKA! Natural
spread and image (although NOT what one could call
pinpoint), but the upper/lower strings "mix
themselves". Sometimes a pair in the middle is
better, but this really kicks up the cost-- now
the main array is four rather than three, and
idealy they should all be the same. If cost is no
object, however, a Decca tree might be the ticket
(see
<http://www.wesdooley.com/pdf/DeccaTreeD2.pdf>)
With 3 omnis Telarc will often mount a ORTF pair
of hypercardioids on the main stand to pull out a
little more woodwinds when necessary.
As for the hall, most halls require a stereo pair
out in the hall- usually a 20-foot (about a 20 Ms
delay). Again, it depends on the room, but I have
found that a ORTF pair of cardioids work well.
Make sure that the sides are reversed so that high
strings are on the left on the main array and the
hall. The advantage here is greater control of
amount of reverb without losing presence in the
quest of reverb.
As for mic stand height, let your ears be your
guide, but 9-12 feet usually works. As for
distance from the ensemble (for the main array),
go back further than 10 feet and there usually is
not enough presence (and be forwarned that what
sounds right on headphones is usually not
"present" enough on speakers). Be sure to use
shock mounts on all mics- Shure A39 are effective
and cost-effective.
For general Digital Recording info, a fantastic
resource is: <http://www.digido.com/homeframe.html>
Add to all the above that there are exceptions to
every "rule" (except the ones called the laws of
physics)-- your ears and taste are the final
authority! Unless the client disagrees, however.
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