DAT-heads Digest #346
Contents:
ISO B-Side Players ("S Randolph")
pioneer dvr7000 forsale (Les Gordon)
Looking for used D8 (Cale Wedell)
Power consumption (Bob Crockett)
Tragically Hip Taping next week and others... ("Peter Padjen")
re: Loud Crowd ("Gary Davis")
re: Loud Crowd ("Gary Davis")
ISO '02 Siouxsie & the Banshees shows (Marc Kim)
12V to 9V converter circuit ("Bonnie & Cleve Svetlik")
4/10-4/12 on hard drive ("T. Simpson")
AKG D 99 C "Harry" binaural head question ("geoff/morgan")
Re: DAT-heads Digest #345 (Keith Shapiro)
1 Trey Taper for Mansfield For Sale ("Bill Hoy")
re: phase cancellation ("Marc Nutter")
Pressed bootlegs ("Thomas Avallone")
From: "S Randolph" <srandolph@core.com>
Subject: ISO B-Side Players
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 22:55:06 -0400
Looking for shows from current tour.
Recent additions for trade are:
Mike Clark 5/31/02
Project Object 2/19/02.
Charlie Hunter 3/13/02
Topaz 4/22/02
Col Bruce Hampton 4/20/02
All Schoeps sources.
The Slip (sdbd) 3/14/02
I'll be taping Trey in Cleveland and Pittsburgh this week.
Thanks,
Steve Randolph
From: Les Gordon <lesg@microserve.net>
Subject: pioneer dvr7000 forsale
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 23:07:23 -0400 (EDT)
hello everyone, i have 1 pioneer dvr7000 for sale. this is pioneer's elete
series version. and it records region free dvds so they can be played
anywhere in the world. you also get 20 dvdr-w discs with the recorder. and
manual and original box. $775 delivered.
the unit is in 100% perfect condition.. thanks les.
email: lesg@microserve.net
QUESTIONS REGARDING,
VIDEO TAPES TRANSFERED TO *DVD*
CUSTOM COLOR CD/DVD PRINTING & DUPLICATION
http://www.recordableneeds.com
BLANK CDR / dvdr MEDIA & SUPPLIES
http://www.recordableneeds.com
phone orders, (215)234-9938
email, lesg@microserve.net
CDR TRADE LIST
http://www.geocities.com/mistercdr
From: Cale Wedell <calewedell@yahoo.com>
Subject: Looking for used D8
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 20:23:25 -0700 (PDT)
I'm looking to purchase a used/working D8. If you have
one for sale, please contact me (calewedell@yahoo.com)
Thanks!
=====
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http://members.cox.net/cwedell/trade.html
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From: Bob Crockett <bcrocket@texas.net>
Subject: Power consumption
Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 22:42:31 -0500
wdraper@expressionanalysis.com Wrote:
> Subject: power consumption for casio da-r100
> any one know the power consumption in MAH, or how i could get it?
Well, the sure way is to break the power line from your wall wart
(or make up an adapter for the purpose) then insert a
milliameter
in series with the power and read instantaneous amperage, than do
the math to find amp hours.
as an example: suppose your equip. is drawing 1000 mA (1 amp)
if it runs for an hour, consumption is one amp hour or 1000
mA/hr.
Old tech, Bob Crockett
From: "Peter Padjen" <thehip1@hotmail.com>
Subject: Tragically Hip Taping next week and others...
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 04:14:30 +0000
Hi there,
hope all is well.. is there anyone out there who can tape any of the
following shows for me?? the first 3 will be broadcast on the radio early
next week... I'm in Montreal and can't pick up the station's
unfortunately... I'd really appreciate any help...
The Shows
Toronto, ON - Wednesday June 12th, 9 PM
Buffalo, NY - Thursday June 13th, 8:00 PM
Detroit, MI - Friday June 14th, 7:30 PM
Burlington, VT - Friday June 21st, 8:00 PM
The Toronto show will air live on Canadian radio stations
The Buffalo show will be taped and air June 14th on The Edge 93.3 FM
The Detroit show will air live on 89X FM
The Burlington show will not be broadcast since the show is actually taking
place on a ferryboat on Lake Champlain.
June
22, Bourbon Street North/Nord, St. Adèle, PQ Sold Out
26, Theatre of Living Arts, Philadelphia, PA
27, Irving Plaza, New York, NY Sold Out
28, Irving Plaza, New York, NY Sold Out
30, Citadel Hill, Halifax, Nova Scotia * 4 bands
July
2, Mile One Stadium, St. John's Newfoundland
11, Ottawa Bluesfest, Festival Plaza, Ottawa * mutli-day festival
12, Bayfest 2002, Sarnia Ontario Sold Out
14, Stage 13, Camrose Alberta * mutli-day festival
16, House of Blues, Chicago, IL
17, House of Blues, Chicago, IL
18, House of Blues, Chicago, IL <new>
20, First Avenue, Minneapolis, MN
23, 9:30 Club, Washington, DC
26, Somerville Theatre, Somerville (Boston), MA Sold Out
27, Somerville Theatre, Somerville (Boston), MA Sold Out
August
1, The Molson Amphitheatre, Toronto, ON <Internet Presale June 5th details
below>
2, The Molson Amphitheatre, Toronto, ON <Internet Presale June 5th details
below>
6, Gothic Theatre, Englewood (Denver), CO
9, House Of Blues, Las Vegas, NV
10, Celebrity Theatre, Phoenix, AZ
11, 4th And B, San Diego, CA
13, House Of Blues-Anaheim, Anaheim, CA
15, House Of Blues, Hollywood, CA
17, Fillmore, San Francisco, CA
21, The Met Theatre, Spokane, WA <new>
22, Aladdin Theatre, Portland, OR
24, Summer Nights at the Pier 62/63, Seattle, WA
29, Odeon, Cleveland, OH
30, Fri @ Odeon, Cleveland, OH
31, DTE Energy Music Theatre (Pine Knob), Clarkston (Detroit), MI
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From: "Gary Davis" <gdavisloop@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: Loud Crowd
Reply-to: gdavisloop@earthlink.net
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 22:33:10 -0700
>> Highlight the loud applause and turn the volume down! I find the
>> best way is to make a "smile curve" with the
>> Transform>>Amplitude>Envelope feature in Cool Edit/Pro.
>outch! this is really bad advice, unless the applause and the music
I was referring to applause between songs.
For applause during songs, sometimes I remove it one clap at a
time...
---Gary
From: "Gary Davis" <gdavisloop@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: Loud Crowd
Reply-to: gdavisloop@earthlink.net
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 22:36:51 -0700
>> Highlight the loud applause and turn the volume down! I find the
>> best way is to make a "smile curve" with the
>> Transform>>Amplitude>Envelope feature in Cool Edit/Pro.
>outch! this is really bad advice, unless the applause and the music
I was referring to applause between songs.
For applause during songs, sometimes I remove it one clap at a
time...
---Gary
From: Marc Kim <leegeddy2112@yahoo.com>
Subject: ISO '02 Siouxsie & the Banshees shows
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 22:41:47 -0700 (PDT)
hi;
did anyone tape any Siouxsie shows?
i believe she played the following dates
Nation Washington 4/17
Roseland New York 4/19
The Vic Chicago 4/21
The Vic Chicago 4/22
Fillmore San Francisco 4/24
Warfield Theatre San Francisco 4/25
Coachella Festival Indio 4/27
thanks,
marc
=====
From the Desk of Marc Kim
BUMBLEBEE PRODUCTIONS
CDR Trading List:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/leegeddy/index.html
"we'd like to do a Canadian song...Red Sector, eh"
-Geddy Lee, RUSH
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From: "Bonnie & Cleve Svetlik" <Svetlik@Stratos.net>
Subject: 12V to 9V converter circuit
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 07:25:33 -0400
Regarding the previous post with link to the circuit to drop 12V to 9V for
use in a car - the circuit is a good one. The only thing I can not comment
on is the pass transistor. - (I do not have a reference book handy.) The
pass transistor will conduct the entire current load. A car electrical
system will vary from 13.8 volts (when the car is running) to 12 V when the
engine is shut off. The voltage difference times the current will give you
the wattage that is dissipated by the pass transistor. Thus, 4 volt drop
times 1 amp of current will release 4 watts of heat. The transistor should
be mounted on a heat sink to carry off the heat released. As I mentioned
above, I am not familiar with the transistor specified - hopefully it is in
a larger size case. This will help heat dissipation. If it is a very small
case unit, (like a pencil eraser) be careful. try any "higher wattage"
audio output transistor with the same construction - PnP Vs NpN - - most
will be interchangeable for this type of application. If you want more
safety - consider placing a small value fuse after your "converter" and
immediately after the fuse a 10 volt Zener diode across the output - a
higher wattage Zener is needed - like 1 Watt rating. If the voltage would
rise - like from a shorted pass transistor - [which will happen if the pass
transistor gets very hot] then the Zener diode will conduct a large amount
of current when the voltage gets above 10 volts and then will blow the fuse,
saving your DAT from destruction.
Another way to build this is to check at Radio Shack - or go to Digi-Key's
catalog - and find a voltage regulator transistor which can be used without
hardly any external components - the dropping resistor and Zener diode
setting the voltage level are internal. Also - these unit usually have a
built in shut down circuit so if it gets too hot, it shuts itself off.
These voltage regulators are available in a variety of output voltages and
current capacities, and there are also variable voltage units where the only
extra component is a potentiometer to set the voltage level you want. Above
all, do not skip the electrolytic capacitors at the input and at the output
of the voltage regulator. They provide stability to the circuit and must be
installed.
Another note on voltage regulator design - if there is any possibility that
there may be 9 volts present on the power plug of the unit you are
connecting to before you make the connection to the 12 volt supply, you MUST
install a diode across the input to output terminals of the voltage
regulator pass transistor (reverse polarity connected) to make sure the 9
volts appears on both sides of the transistor. I am not aware of any DATs
or other audio devices where internal batteries are connected to the
external power plug on the DAT so that this could possibly happen. This
problem is most often seen on battery chargers. I believe that more modern
voltage regulator (all-in-one units) now include a back-voltage prevention
diode inside the case, but there is always the possibility that someone may
want to built one of these nifty voltage regulator devices to externally
charge a battery. (In the circuit you referenced, you can change the
voltage output by just changing the Zener diode - - - because of the voltage
drop internal to the pass transistor - the actual voltage output will be
about 0.2 volts higher - - also remember that the Zener diodes have a
voltage tolerance so the actual voltage could the higher or lower, but it
should be within the tolerance stamped on the device. This is not a problem
for a power supply to run a DAT, etc.)
Cleve Svetlik, Cleveland, OH.
From: "T. Simpson" <pthemonkeyd@yahoo.com>
Subject: 4/10-4/12 on hard drive
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 04:51:38 -0700 (PDT)
Hello all,
I have the Tool 4/10-12/02 shows (stellar recordings)
on my hard drive right now - who wants a copy of any
of these? Can also do DAT clones of the shows.
Please send list or link to list if interested.
Thanks!
peace,
Travis
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From: "geoff/morgan" <geofry@speedsite.com>
Subject: AKG D 99 C "Harry" binaural head question
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 07:22:46 -0600
I just bought the AKG D99 C "Harry" dummy head with microphones in the ears.
Of course when I tried to plug it into my D7 I got low levels and distortion
when I got them past 12. I asssume I need a pre-amp or some phantom power
source. Any recommendations on the cheaper side?
From: Keith Shapiro <keither@torilive.org>
Subject: Re: DAT-heads Digest #345
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:22:07 -0400 (EDT)
Wayne wrote:
>I've heard a lot of rhetoric about the clock-lock stuff, but I've never
>fully understood what that means. Since S/PDIF is a serial protocol
>and only uses a signal and ground connection I suppose it can only be
>asynchronous (clock locks onto highs and lows of the incoming signal and
>uses framing bits to synchronize. A synchronous signal by contrast uses
>a clock and data line (plus grounds) and the receiver locks onto the
>sender's clock).
Not quite true. SPDIF *is* a synchronous data stream. Synchronous
meaning that the data is a clocked. SPDIF uses an encoding called
"biphase mark" to encode the clock into the data stream. Using some black
magic with a PLL, one can recover the clock from the SPDIF data stream.
Ostensibly, "clock lock" indicates that the PLL has locked to the
frequency of the incoming SPDIF data.
Keith
--
Keith D. Shapiro
keither@torilive.org
http://www.torilive.org/
From: "Bill Hoy" <Bill.Hoy@eaw.com>
Subject: 1 Trey Taper for Mansfield For Sale
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 10:22:25 -0400
Hello -
I have an extra Taper ticket for Trey @ Tweeter Center, Mansfield, MA =
06/14 - next Friday.
Selling at cost: $47
I probably won't see any e-mail till Monday, but I will next day Air, or =
Fed Ex it then.
Thanks!
bhoy@eaw.com
From: "Marc Nutter" <nutter@sonicsense.com>
Subject: re: phase cancellation
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2002 08:58:13 -0600
>From: Charles Muccia <cvm900@yahoo.com>
>Subject: phase cancellation
>Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 08:41:02 -0700 (PDT)
> I'd like to get some info and input from the
>dat-heads collective mind. Can some one explain to me
>what phasing and phase cancellation is? I recently
>taped the Phil show at the Frost and the results came
>out less than spectacular. It's been suggested to me
>that my recording may have suffered from phase
>cancellation,but I'm not quite sure what that is and
>how I can prevent it from happening again. My current
>rig is a set of Rode NT3's running on P48v into a D8.
> I'd also like to hear any pros and cons about the
>Denecke AD 20 as I'm thinking about purchasing one of
>these in the near future.
> Thanks to all for the help.
>Charles
Hi Charles (and All),
The response that follows is just the "tip of the iceberg" when it comes
to phase but hopefully it provokes more discussion, expansion on these
points, and the development of a good bibliography.
I can think of three particular issues of phase that we as recordists
should be concerned with. Phase from the P.A., the relationship between
the mics, and setting delays on multiple source recordings.
Unfortunately, we can do very little about phase errors in the P.A. but
we should be aware of them.
Phase, as it relates to audio, is the arrival of sound in time. We
often talk about it with relationship to the setting of delay speakers
and the need to delay them back to the mains so they don't sound like
they are arriving before the mains, and in turn don't create severe
phase shift, or in some cases echoes.
Aside from delays, phase is a critical issue within the design of a
single speaker or an array. Look inside any large speaker that contains
a horn and a cone driver and you'll see that the driver for the horn is
deep in the back, often a foot or more behind the cone. The physical
position of these components causes phase differences that the speaker
manufacturers may compensate for with internal pre-sets or will leave it
to the system operator to do so. Either way, it is important that all
frequencies arrive to the listener simultaneously, especially with
regard to the crossover frequencies (where one drivers ends and the next
picks up).
The difficulty of phase is exacerbated by the combining of multiple
speakers which are prone to bleeding into each other's coverage area.
When common frequencies interact, they can couple if they are in phase,
or detract from each other at varying amounts depending on how severely
out of phase they are and how similar the level is. Phase shift is the
term used to describe these arrival differences. Anything that arrives
180 degrees out-of-phase will cancel entirely, resulting in nulls in the
audio at various frequencies. These nulls tend to repeat themselves at
octave intervals across the audio band and are then called comb-filters.
A severe case of this is when a common (mono) signal is being sent
through a left/right "stereo" P.A. that has substantial overlap of
coverage. Seats right in the middle will receive all information at the
same time (hopefully) but those off-center will be receive information
sooner from the side they are on than from the other. Those frequencies
that arrive at the greatest level will be most audible. If the system
is separated properly, there would be minimal comb-filtering since the
off-axis levels should be considerably lower than those on-axis. It is
entirely possible, as a result of phase, to hear certain frequencies in
one seat and not hear them just a seat of two on either side. In order
to determine where the best taping seat is, we have to walk around.
Unfortunately, most of us aren't usually inside for sound check and the
music playing before the show often isn't loud enough to determine what
will work best.
While the goal of any system designer should be to minimize
comb-filtering and phase shift, it is, obviously, easier said than done.
When recording, the most we can hope for in an assigned seat, is that we
are in a good spot, which may not always be "dfc" as the saying goes.
At a general admission show, try moving around a bit, when you don't
have mics to worry about.
Perhaps the most dramatic example will be when you arrive at that
acoustic center of the room on the horizontal axis and hear the severe
coupling that occurs with the low-end. Here we have a severe case of
phase problems because we are being hit with stage sound (amplifiers &
monitors) along with the PA and mostly out of time (phase). It sounds
exciting at first but check out what happens to the definition there
versus a mere 3 feet to either side of center. You may find yourself
moving just a few feet at set break. The low-end may not be as intense,
but it is usually considerably clearer/tighter/better defined.
In addition to the P.A. itself, the room interacts with the sound system
and cause additional phase issues as reflections from the walls, beams,
empty seats, the floor and other surfaces arrive at the listening
position after the main source. As each room is different, it is
entirely possible to find that a similar seating location (example 25th
row just off center) may sound great in one venue but not on another.
As for the microphones, the capsules each pick up various frequencies
with different sensitivity. Even an omni-directional capsule is NOT
equally sensitive at all frequencies. In fact, above 5kHz, they
demonstrate considerable directionality. The phase relationship of the
microphones comes into play when we determine how we set them up (ortf,
x/y, a variation thereof...). Our pattern can affect how much of each
frequency we obtain. Experimentation is the best bet in determining
what you like. As I've discussed on our website, I like a modified
near-coincident pattern for recording from a P.A.. I find it provides
richer bottom-end (perhaps as a result of phase difference) and a wider
stereo image (actually caused by the very small phase shift "creating
the illusion of stereo" as Wes Dooley puts it). Remember, it is the
difference in arrival times (phase) to each of our ears as a result of
the head between them that makes us able to localize a sound source.
X/Y conversely captures all information in phase, but consequently
generates a much more centralized stereo image (with less sense of width
when played back on loudspeakers).
The last matter of phase that I think we should really consider is
alignment of multiple sources. I hear a lot of discussion about trying
to run the proverbial "matrix" tape. This is a great way to make a
fantastic recording if it is done the way Don Pearson did it with The
Grateful Dead. The direct soundboard source was delayed PRECISELY back
to the P.A. which arrived at the microphones later than the direct
source. Commercial Time: Check out Postcards of the Hanging--(aka Dead
does Dylan). Four of the UltraMixes are used on that are these type of
recordings done REALLY well.
If it is not done properly, it is also a great way to take what could
have been two good recordings and make one lousy one. Having made a
number of such recordings, through the use of multi-track software, I
have found it is easy to align the recordings and then set delays on one
stereo pair. However, even a difference of a millisecond (roughly equal
to a one foot misalignment) is audible. Each source goes from sounding
tight and coherent to immediately revealing the comb-filters created by
the offset. The low-end may thin out, vocals become nasally (even on
non-Dylan recordings) and highs may disappear or become painfully
brittle. When these delays are increase to 25-50 milliseconds (roughly
equal to 25-50 feet, like you could expect in a small venue), the issues
grow even more noticeable. They do NOT sound just "just a little reverb
from the room." That is achieved by precise signal alignment and adding
the ambient recording into the mix in the amount desired, not by failing
to align it properly.
Unfortunately, the speed of sound changes with temperature and humidity
making it important to adjust delays slightly as the show goes on (the
room gets hot and sweaty). Attempting to make a board/audience mix
without proper source alignment may be fun and sound good at first, but
would be a far better project to be tackled with two DAT machines and a
workstation so they can be realigned as phase changes.
A great book for understanding speaker systems:
"The Meyer Sound Design Guide"--Bob McCarthy]
Available from Meyer Sound
I hope the long-winded response helps. I look forward to further
insights and expansions on these issues from others.
Happy Recording Everybody,
Marc
Marc Nutter
Sonic Sense, Inc.
(303) 753-0201 or Toll-Free (877) 324-4463
2755 S. Gilpin St.
Denver, CO 80210
http://www.sonicsense.com
nutter@sonicsense.com
From: "Thomas Avallone" <tav2367@msn.com>
Subject: Pressed bootlegs
Date: Fri, 07 Jun 2002 15:50:56 +0000
Ok, its happened again ! Two of my masters have wound up being pressed on
silver disks. Does anyone have any info on WHERE or HOW MANY sources these
come from ? Its my understanding that in Italy and The Netherlands, this is
LEGAL ! It really FROSTS me that this happens !!!
And I take it there are absolutely NO STEPS in stopping this from
happening....Any ideas ??? Thoughts ??? I rely on this group because of
the amount of useful information, so ANY help or comment would be a blessing
to me.
Tom
"I've heard there's joy untold
Lays open like a road
In front of me"
~ PJ Harvey
http://www.tav2367.20m.com/
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