DAT-heads Digest #354
Contents:
FW: a DAT head favor to ask ("Jayney Wallick")
Dead Reunion Cancelled? NDC (Computorney)
Re: [BUDD] Vote On The Alpine Show (Keith Bode)
Re: stealth taping and dealing with others (acffh)
Re: ISO: Advice from MBHO > MP-2 > M1 users ("Degrado, Rob")
(2) Trey RCMH 6/18 Taper Tickets for Trade (kfor5311)
6V ecocharge alternative (randy@monkeybiz.Stanford.EDU)
Re: 6V ecocharge alternative (Sean Kennedy)
RE: Stealth Tapers and Bootleging ("Hance, Bill")
Re: stealth tapers and bootlegging (gottajiboo40@mac.com)
Re: Stealth Tapers and Bootleging (Wayne Bonomo)
Re: Stealth Tapers and Bootleging (Keith Bode)
Re: Stealth Taping and Obnoxious concert goers ("Concert Taperman")
Stealthers vs. Talkers (CCage@aol.com)
Re: DAT-heads Digest #353 (John Horzepa)
From: "Jayney Wallick" <Jayney.Wallick@mackie.com>
Subject: FW: a DAT head favor to ask
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:02:49 -0700
Here's something else I'm forwarding on for a friend. Please contact him =
if you are interested.
Jayney
> ----------
> From: Michael Johnson
> Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 11:56 PM
> To: Jayney Wallick
> Subject: a DAT head favor to ask
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I'm not a registered DAT head but I was wondering if you could pass on =
a
> message to the list. I have a SONY DAT Adapter Kit RM-D100K for sale =
on
> Ebay:
>=20
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D1359645492
>=20
> I'm a minidisc person and this was given to me. Might be of better use =
to a
> DAT head. Thanks for considering this.
>=20
> Mike J.
>=20
>=20
>=20
From: Computorney <sentmail@computorney.com>
Subject: Dead Reunion Cancelled? NDC
Reply-to: sentmail@computorney.com
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:05:51 -0400
Any insiders have any inside information as to what this is about and
what the possible options are??
Wisconsin Town Kills Dead Reunion
http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,10091,00.html
From: Keith Bode <t.tunakebo@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [BUDD] Vote On The Alpine Show
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:29:34 -0700
Vote early and vote often is exactly what makes this poll a farce.
Keith
nylifer@aol.com wrote:
>
> http://www.easttroywi.org/
>
> This is the East Troy Wisconsin Chamber of Commerce site where you can vote
> whether to have the Dead Reunion Tour there or not
>
> Please vote yes and often.
>
> Peace,
>
> Bob
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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From: acffh <morst@tds.net>
Subject: Re: stealth taping and dealing with others
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:46:38 -0500
I have heard anecdotal evidence of a dedicated recordist at a
high-priced show who passed out valiums and bought a couple rounds of
beer for all his neighbors!!
It worked great to keep the crowd sounds low near the mics!!
-t
ps- it has been noted that strong smoke can also be used as
anti-yelling medication. . . as Eugene suggests. . .
==============================
From: Eugene Hu <eugene@overture.com>
Subject: Re: stealth taping and dealing with others
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 19:32:08 -0700
Folks often shut up after smoking something strong. Implementation
left as an exercise for the student :-).
-Eugene
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: "Degrado, Rob" <Rob.Degrado@voicestream.com>
Subject: Re: ISO: Advice from MBHO > MP-2 > M1 users
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:45:41 -0700
With no external digital to analog converter, you'll need to keep in mind
that you'll
have input control on not just the pre-amp but the deck also. You'll need to
set
phantom power to 48k to power those MBHOs. If you have no
echo-charge type lead sealed battery, I would suggest stocking up on some
lithium batteries as that MP-2 will drain alkalines pretty fast. You can
switch
the level meters to off on the MP-2 to conserve energy but if it overloads,
the lights turn red and you'll need to see that if it happens. As far as the
limiter,
I'll defer to those who have used it (I never have). Good Luck! l8r -Rob.
============================================
"I will be renting MBHO mics and an MP-2 for a festival in late June.
Since I won't have much of a chance to experiment, I was hoping to get some
advice from experienced users. Although I've read all the pertinent info on
the Sound Devices site, tips from users would really be appreciated.
I'll only be able to use alkalines (no rechargeable) for the MP-2 and
will be running 15v to the MBHOs. I'd like to know approximate run times
and safe procedure for a quick change of the batteries before encores or
between sets. Any advice on the limiter function and how to interpret the
meter would be helpful, too."
From: kfor5311 <kfor5311@postoffice.uri.edu>
Subject: (2) Trey RCMH 6/18 Taper Tickets for Trade
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:47:17 -0400
Hey Ya'll,
This might be an unusual request but I think I'll give it a shot anyway. I am
a patcher that has two taper tickets to Trey at RCMH on 6/18. (I actually
didn't realize I had taper tickets until yesterday, oops). Anyway...rather
than use those two taper tickets for a patcher and a non-taper, I'd rather
trade them to a taper with a rig or whatever. I'm looking for two tickets in
the center orchestra, out of the taper section, as trade. Also, If the person
I trade these to could run my gear...that would be awesome too. Just let me
know if your interested.
Peace,
Keith in Maryland
From: randy@monkeybiz.Stanford.EDU
Subject: 6V ecocharge alternative
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:52:32 -0700 (PDT)
hey now!
i'm way tired of hauling lead batteries around...and happy to report that
an extremely light-weight alternative might do the trick for you too.
about a month ago i purchased a 6V NiMH battery pack (Maha MH-DPB180M POWERBank)
to run my Sound Devices MP2. As the plugs that came with the pack didn't
fit the MP-2, I had to spend 15 minutes doing a cable hack (Radio Shack
*may* sell a plug that would fit onto the battery pack without soldering,
but i had an extra MP2 plug already...). After running several shows
(2-3 hours each, recharging the pack between shows) and seeing that the
battery shows a full charge *after* the show, I'm ready to recommend this
unit to anyone who might be interested.
Details: it's very small (about the size of a DAT box) and light (?100 gm?
...i guess i could weigh it if anyone really cares...).
Rated capacity is 1800 mAH (but actual is probably higher).
Includes a charger & several useful cables (car charger, tip adaptors, etc).
I found out about the unit from this review (re: using it as designed, to
power a digital camera): http://www.steves-digicams.com/maha_powerbank.html
It would be nice if the power connector had a locking plug; I've made do with
a thick rubber band as extra security to keep the right-angle plug from getting
pulled out while the battery is in my gearbag.
Non-US chargers are now available (wish I'd noticed that when I bought mine...);best price i've seen for one is $45 (most vendors are charging ~$60).
-rand0m
From: Sean Kennedy <liam@xo.com>
Subject: Re: 6V ecocharge alternative
Reply-To: Sean Kennedy <liam@fedney.tech.xo.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 14:03:47 -0400
--On Thursday, June 13, 2002 10:52 AM -0700 "randy@monkeybiz.Stanford.EDU"
<randy@monkeybiz.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
> mine...);best price i've seen for one is $45 (most vendors are charging
I happened to see that Universal Radio has this for 44.95. I believe
they are pretty reputable and I had been planning to buy some other
accessories from them, so can comment after on that experience. No
fiscal connection, I figured it was just mentioning the availability given
Randy's favorable review of the product.
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamacc/3204.html
Thomas Distributing that Steve's references is a very reputable
vendor that many folks here have used for NiMH AA/AAA batteries.
They are selling it for $52.95, which is pretty reasonable if
you combine it with some of your other power needs to save on
shipping.
Sean
From: "Hance, Bill" <BHance@BroadViewNet.com>
Subject: RE: Stealth Tapers and Bootleging
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 14:28:45 -0400
>
>As far as the people around you, even if you offer them copies of the
>tape, I doubt the average concert goer has a DAT deck, and I have never
>given away an analog recording, since I started digital trading, and
How long have you been taping, that you've never spun even one person a
copy of the show you just taped? I've probably spun 500 cassettes in my
life, for the purpose of spreading the tunes. So has most everyone here.
>feel the conversion from D>A goes against the grain of what is the
>purpose of the work, I can see a CD copy being given away, but I have my
>doubts about the music quality. It would seem to me, unless you were
You are right. All recordings not using fixed microphone stands are
substandard.
I'll update the ratings on my tape list when I get home.
>atleast 6'3" it would be an awfully muddy recording with mostly crowd
>noise. Anyone who asked me to shut up, I hardly speak to people during
>the playing, or told me to "shut the fuck up, I'm recording", would have
>a short evening in the venue.
Are you talking violence, or snitching?
Either way, your true character has been revealed. Best to shut up.
From: gottajiboo40@mac.com
Subject: Re: stealth tapers and bootlegging
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 14:33:44 -0500
ummmm..I've got to agree with this guy on one point. Last summer, Trey
tour, Polaris Amphitheater, I had a guy shush me for me asking my
girlfriend if she needed a bottle of water because I was on my way to
use the bathroom, and to get one myself. I was almost about to say "what
the fuck, you rude dickhead"? but, I let it go. Come back, then about 45
minutes later he is sushing my girlfriend and the others around us every
time we cheer at the end of the song, and every time anyone would make
a normal "show comment". I looked over, and this fucking idiot has a
Sony lapel mic in a paper funnel, that you get free from the gas station
to put oil into your car with, and a mini-disc recorder that looked like
it was made during the Great Depression. He had his little "funnel mic"
taped to the back of the seat RIGHT In FRONT of my girlfriend, and every
time she turned to make a small comment about Trey's guitar work or any
other normal "show" comments, he would give me and her the evil eye, and
she would end up just turning back and not being able to say or ask me
what she wanted. keep in mind, I am 26 and weigh 190, and this little
guy couldn't have been older than 15, and didn't way more than a buck
30. I was humoring him, by not saying anything to him. I am not a
confrontational person, and was hoping this little jerk would just
eventually lighten up. Finally, about 10 minutes into set 2, he sushed
us all for the last time, and some guys on the other side of him got
pretty upset with him. there were some pretty harsh words thrown at this
guy from the roughly 15 or so people in our surrounding area. By now, he
realized he was not the "cool stealth taper" he thought he was, but an
immature little jerk, who had no fucking idea what taping was about, and
was just a little boy. He put his "little rig" away, and pretty much sat
there in his chair for the rest of the show, not clapping, cheering or
saying a word. with his head down. I don't know if I would have handled
it the same way those other guys did, but after an hour and a half of
this little kid shushing us every time we took a breath got REALLY old.
I'll bet a million dollars that there were absolutely NO voices picked
up on his little mini-disc, but 30 of his SSSSSSHHHHHHHH's on there. I
have been taping for a little while now, and we all know, THAT is not
the way to do things. So, on one small part of the whole issue, I can
agree. stealth FOB'ing is nice, but be respectful of others that are
there to have a good time and enjoy the music too. It is just as rude
for the guy stealth taping to tell everyone around him to be quite every
time they make a peep, as it is for some drunk guy to be yelling out
song titles every five minutes, or spilling his beer on your foot. it's
all about the music, that is why we are all there to begin with! Take
care!!
-Jason
From: Wayne Bonomo <waynomo2@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Stealth Tapers and Bootleging
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 14:43:57 -0400
You said:
> I am completely baffled by the idea that other ticket
> goers owe you the respect of being quiet, if their choice is to talk.
That is just it. They do owe us the respect. Forget the whole taping
thing. If people are talking loudly enough to take away from others
enjoyment of the music, they are out of line. This behavior would not be
tolerated for a second at the symphony, opera, ballet, or a Broadway
show. Why should it be tolerated at a other types of cultural events like
rock concerts?
It is quite possible to communicate to the person next to you without
disturbing everyone within a 10 foot radius around you no matter how loud
or quiet the music. These people just haven't figured out how to do that yet.
Peace,
Wayne
From: Keith Bode <t.tunakebo@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Stealth Tapers and Bootleging
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:20:18 -0700
Yeah, that much I do agree with, but at most R+R shows, like the ABB
this past weekend in Los Angeles, you couldn't hear your neighbor 6'
away talking if you wanted. At outdoor venues, it is worse, because the
music disperses more.
Also at Venues like The House of Blues it's awful. The crowd at the one
in Hollywood, is the most obnoxious crowd I ever saw. I have had people
just walk up to me, and just slide in next to me, and push me. I really
had to hold myself back so I didn't knock the shit out of a coule of
them.
About 8 years ago I went with my GF to the Long Beach Blues Festival.
one of the acts ws Brownie McGee. That dumb bitch, she's a lawyer too,
didn't shut up the entire time Brownie was playing. I asked her over
and over to wait, and she wouldn't. That was Brownie's last show ever,
he died 3 months later.
Keith
Wayne Bonomo wrote:
>
> You said:
> > I am completely baffled by the idea that other ticket
> > goers owe you the respect of being quiet, if their choice is to talk.
>
> That is just it. They do owe us the respect. Forget the whole taping
> thing. If people are talking loudly enough to take away from others
> enjoyment of the music, they are out of line. This behavior would not be
> tolerated for a second at the symphony, opera, ballet, or a Broadway
> show. Why should it be tolerated at a other types of cultural events like
> rock concerts?
>
> It is quite possible to communicate to the person next to you without
> disturbing everyone within a 10 foot radius around you no matter how loud
> or quiet the music. These people just haven't figured out how to do that yet.
>
> Peace,
> Wayne
--
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From: "Concert Taperman" <coganjameskevin@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stealth Taping and Obnoxious concert goers
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 12:15:04 -0700
Hey All,
I've been following the dialogue regarding this subject with interest.
The person who made the original post is a old friend of mine,and I was
sitting next to him,also recording the show.
I thought I would add the following bit's of info.The Woman who was behind
us was aware that she was loud,and rude and had a "be damned if I'll be
quiet just so some uptight concert goer can enjoy their show!" demeanor.
The Woman started up a conversation with a gentleman 2 seats to my left
about why was I frowning and grimacing so much.Her Boyfriend/Husbands
response to my non verbal distress was to yell even louder.
This couple clearly knew their behavior was atrocious,and upon seeing the
effect of it on other concert goers,became even more obnoxious.
I don't have a problem with an ocassional hoot and holler,I firmly believe
that folks who pay good money for a concert ticket deserve to have fun.
After all,we had paid good money for out tix,and we were not having fun.
I would agree with Stefan that telling the people about your taping is not
really a solution.
I have noticed more and more,over the years ,adverse reactions from other
concert goers when they find out I'm taping.
These can range from simple indignance to getting "ratted" on.
I once had a person turn me in for taping a Santana concert because My
friend and I wouldn't "Share".
It's interesting that one digest reader suggested that since tapers are
violating copy write laws,that we are in no position to complain,or expect
commom curtesey.
Because I was taping a show with out the band's permission,I deserved to
have this couple exhibit outrageous behavior??.
Incidentally,they had no Idea I was taping,and I knew immediately that any
kind of conversation with them was out of the question!.
All in all,it was a very interesting evening,and as Stefan pointed out,this
night in particular,did seem to be a fluke.
BTW,the person 2 seats over to my left,told this woman that she had more
"personality" than any one else there.
Huh???
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
From: CCage@aol.com
Subject: Stealthers vs. Talkers
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 15:29:08 EDT
I agree with the old Phish taping policy (just my opinion) People are there
to enjoy the show and tapers do not have the right to ask people to shut up.
I have had many shows ruined over the last 17 yrs. by people who are more
concerned with their self image than listening to the show. I really like the
people who are so messed up, they use my pole to keep themselves upright. I
feel sorry for these people. In stealth cases where the one time polite
request has no effect- I shut down and dance like everyone else and get the
show from another source.
My wife stopped going to shows w/ me cuz' I was always taping. Don't blame
her.
How do you spell obsessive/complusive?
I found that mounting stealth mikes in a baseball cap up high towards the
crown area in front will give you more PA directional focus and the cap brim
will muffle some of the chatter. ( yes Leonard, your DSM6's do sound better
when place by my ears- but the other way cuts some of the chatter)
At least we live in a country where some bands/venues allow open taping.
Lived in the UK for 2 years and those folks absolutely freak out. Who was
with me taping Phish at the Albert Hall on 6-16-97? That was interesting!
KindTaper, I know you remember that one.
Live & Let Live
Chris
Rant tax - -first 2 private response can get the 4-16-02 Philly Macca show
from 7th row schoeps source.
From: John Horzepa <jjh@cybernex.net>
Subject: Re: DAT-heads Digest #353
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 15:49:41 -0400
At 12:50 PM 6/13/2002 -0400, dat-heads@datheads.phish.net wrote:
>From: Keith Bode <t.tunakebo@verizon.net>
>Subject: Stealth Tapers and Bootleging
>Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 21:29:28 -0700
>
>Folks,
>
>I have a hard time seeing Stealth Taping in a different light than
>selling bootleg recordings. The act of Stealth taping, IMO, is to
>record an atist, one I think you would really like otherwise you
>wouldn't be recording them, against their public policy, and in defiance
>of the rules usually printed on the tickets, and possibly illegally,
>that I don't know. I am completely baffled by the idea that other ticket
>goers owe you the respect of being quiet, if their choice is to talk.
I agree they don't owe you the respect of being quiet so you can tape, but
they do owe you the respect of being quiet so you can hear the show.
>f you bust their balls about being quiet so you can make a recording,
>that violates the agreement you made by buying a ticket, and perhaps the
>law, and shows no respect for the artists wishes. IMO, you are stealing
>a recording, and seem to be aware of it as it is referred to as "Stealth
>Recording" If you enjoy the artist and you respect the artist, why is
>ripping them off so cool?
Do you have any FOB Dead shows on cassette/DAT/CD? Or audience recordings
prior to 10/27/84? If so, please get rid of them as taping was not
officially allowed FOB at any time and in the taper section prior to that
date (there was no taper section prior to 10/27/84).
>purpose of the work, I can see a CD copy being given away, but I have my
>doubts about the music quality. It would seem to me, unless you were
>atleast 6'3" it would be an awfully muddy recording with mostly crowd
>noise. Anyone who asked me to shut up, I hardly speak to people during
I can give you plenty of examples where this is not true. The sound
quality can be very good for a "stealth" recording.
>Selling bootlegs is the same, except it is more clear cut. You are
>absoultely violating copyright laws, and laws regarding intelectual
>property.
I agree with you here.
>IMO, it's a thin line of difference between Stealth Recording and
>Bootlegging. It sounds as if the mikes used for Stealth taping, are
>very similar to the one sed by police in dope deals, and undercover
>operations.
The mics used for stealth recording (Schoeps, Neumann, B&K, etc.) are
actually very similar to the mics used for "taping section" recordings. At
least some of the mics used are. I don't know anyone taping with mics that
are used by undercover cops, but maybe somebody does. Nor do I understand
the relevance wrt whether or not stealth taping is ethical.
Keep in mind that some artists are okay with taping but their record labels
are not. Or perhaps they don't have an official policy because they never
bothered to formulate one. Or what would your stance be on bands with a
"don't ask, don't tell" policy?
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