DAT-heads Digest #406, Volume #6 Fri, 26 Jul 02 00:50:01 EDT Contents: ISO Mark Lindsay (Brian LaPan) EAC (Scott Goodwin) FS: Brand new AKG 451's ("Wade Cooper") Re: Asymmetrical waveforms (Mark McHarg) Some Bonnaroo Photo's online ("Bob Silver") Re: Asymmetrical waveforms (Romain Kang) Re: Asymmetrical waveforms ("Matt") loud crowd/quiet shows & levels ("Scott Bernstein") Please Tape: Stuart Davis July 27, Chicago - I will buy tic 4 U ("Vince Horst") Re: EAC ("Wayne D. Hoxsie Jr.") Shoud I Buy a new DAT Deck? ("Gary Johnson") Re: loud crowd/quiet shows & levels (Todd Romero) ISO Neil Finn 2002 ("David Carroll") Re: Asymmetrical waveforms ("Wayne D. Hoxsie Jr.") Rush trading ("rush fan") extra Les Claypool @ GOTV 2K2 on DAT for B+P ("Dan") gin blossomsb+p ("TCH") gin blossoms b+p ("TCH") gin blossoms ("TCH") ISO: tapers ("Fares Halteh") ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian LaPan Subject: ISO Mark Lindsay Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 08:14:27 +0000 Hey all. In the not too distant past, Mark Lindsay (of Paul Revere and the Raiders fame) did a couple of shows I believe in the Pacific Northwest with former members of the band. Anybody fortunate enough to mark the occasion with a tape? cheers, brian ------------------------------ From: Scott Goodwin Subject: EAC Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:58:37 -0700 >>> Copying audio from a CD disc through the CDR drive on a computer, >>> whether using EAC or a "single-pass" program (such as CDRWIN), generally >>> produces an excellent copy of the data onto your hard drive. ********************* >Depends on your drive. Plextor and other "accurate-stream" do indeed >give you the right answer almost every time. El-Cheapo drives often >don't. ********************* False. The brand and/or design of CDROM one uses to do an extraction with EAC has nothing to do with the results. EAC, by design and when used correctly, gives identical results every time. That's the whole point. In fact, I'd say that using CDRWin and a Plex is arguably less accurate than using EAC and "Jim's Pretty Good CDROM Company"s cheapo CDROM drive. I don't want an "excellent" copy, I was a *perfect* copy. ------------------------------ From: "Wade Cooper" Subject: FS: Brand new AKG 451's Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:26:00 -0400 Brand new pair of never used AKG451/B mics. Complete, outer cartons, wooden cases, clips, windscreens, etc. Reason for selling: no longer have time for taping. Excellent deal...serious inquires only please. Contact Mike at: feelsgood@juno.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ From: Mark McHarg Subject: Re: Asymmetrical waveforms Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 14:56:45 +0100 > > > I noticed something I've seen before on a recent recording I made > > > with my AT 933s (Sound Pro Premium with hyper caps). When I transfer > > > it to my PC and look at the waveform in CoolEdit 2000, the top side > > > peaks hit a maximum of about -6 dB while the bottoms are > > > occasionally hitting 0 and are consistently higher than the tops. > > > > My guess would be that you have a non-zero DC offset. > > I've seen this with my Oktava MC-012s, I think both the omni and the > hyper capsules. Cool Edit calculated something like .002% offset. > I haven't figured it out yet. The most serious examples I've seen of this are on Big Brother tapes from '67 and '68. All the guitar peaks are much bigger in one direction than the other. It appears that they made sure all their guitars and microphones were connected with the same phase so that when those banging chords all hit at the same time it produced a big acoustic shock wave. I haven't checked to see if there's any significant DC offset, but it doesn't really look like it. The quiet parts are all pretty well centred. Even with other bands if you look at an individual guitar note, the peak oscillation is always in the same direction (depending on whether it's an up or down stroke of course). The big brother stuff just seems more accentuated. - mark ------------------------------ From: "Bob Silver" Subject: Some Bonnaroo Photo's online Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:22:00 -0400 I have much more to load, but need to find the time ...sorry it has taken so long! I have several hundred to still look at and edit! http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?m=14201940503&n=1220167767 To view the photos in this album, click here. You'll need to sign in to your Ofoto account to get started. If you don't currently have an Ofoto account, just join for free Gather the memories and spread the love!! Peace, Boca Bob Silver ~~ ) ~~~~ )> ~~~~ )> ~~ http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/b/o/bocabob/TAPELIST.HTM ~~ ) ~~~~ )> ~~~~ )> ~~ ------------------------------ From: Romain Kang Subject: Re: Asymmetrical waveforms Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 07:54:55 -0700 I've heard the USENET rec.audio.pro folks talk about some musical instruments known to have asymmetrical waveforms (e.g., trumpets). In the days when this had to be cut to vinyl, this led to tricks such as inverting the polarity on some of the mix elements to prevent the stylus from jumping out of the groove. (The sound absolutists decried this practice, of course.) However, the pros didn't mention 6 dB differences in the magnitudes of the positive and negative peaks. If the shapes of the waveforms are symmetric after compensating for the offset, could there have been DC bias in the sound system? Romain Kang Disclaimer: I speak for myself alone, romain@kzsu.stanford.edu except when indicated otherwise. ------------------------------ From: "Matt" Subject: Re: Asymmetrical waveforms Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 09:04:39 -0600 I also calculated the DC offset with CE2k and found a similar result. It seemed to be such a small fraction I didn't bother trying to correct it since artifacts may become more apparent than any good changes it might make. Someone mentioned it was caused Sound Pro's battery box in combination with these mics at very high spl. It was REALLY loud, so that could be it. He said that AT's battery boxes were better and don't do this. I would think something seemingly simple like a BB would be really similar across brands, but maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about. I guess those AT BBs are mono so you need two, and they are bulky. Anyone know anything more about them (links)? Thanks! MattB > ------------------------------ > > From: David Carmean > Subject: Re: Asymmetrical waveforms > Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 21:03:32 -0700 > > On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 12:00:04AM -0400, Seth Breidbart wrote: > > > I noticed something I've seen before on a recent recording I made > > > with my AT 933s (Sound Pro Premium with hyper caps). When I transfer > > > it to my PC and look at the waveform in CoolEdit 2000, the top side > > > peaks hit a maximum of about -6 dB while the bottoms are > > > occasionally hitting 0 and are consistently higher than the tops. > > > > My guess would be that you have a non-zero DC offset. > > > I've seen this with my Oktava MC-012s, I think both the omni and the > hyper capsules. Cool Edit calculated something like .002% offset. > I haven't figured it out yet. > ------------------------------ From: "Scott Bernstein" Subject: loud crowd/quiet shows & levels Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:00:52 -0400 I know this has come up a few times, but I think the best solution I've found is to optimize the recording levels for the music and not worry about going "over" during the clapping and loud crowd outbursts. Why would you care if the waveforms of the outbursts/clapping are distorted? You're there to record the music. Also, this would provide some sort of built-in limiting since a maximum sample is a maximum sample no matter how loud it is. Scott _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ From: "Vince Horst" Subject: Please Tape: Stuart Davis July 27, Chicago - I will buy tic 4 U Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:32:39 -0500 I would like to make a request to have the following Stuart Davis show taped: Saturday July 27, 2002 Katie Todd Band CD Release Party with very Special Guest Stuart Davis Venue: Martyrs' Time: 9PM Cost: $10 (I'll give you $20 to cover your costs) Order by tix Phone: 1-800-594-TIXX Address: 3855 N. Lincoln Ave. Chicago, IL 60613 Directions: http://www.martyrslive.com/map.htm A reminder that Staurt DOES allow soundboard access and/or video or any combination that you like. Mic stands are venue dependent. If I have to get on my knees and beg, I will. Please contact me if you are willing and able to go. Check will be in the mail ASAP. - Vince BWT: More people for Great Big Sea, Minneapolis, MN DPA4061/M1, 20 feet from stage. Sounds good. 1 disc. (I'm on vacation for a week starting this Saturday, so I will send ur disc back when I get back). _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Wayne D. Hoxsie Jr." Subject: Re: EAC Reply-To: wayne@hoxnet.com Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 12:02:43 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Scott Goodwin wrote: > >>> Copying audio from a CD disc through the CDR drive on a computer, > >>> whether using EAC or a "single-pass" program (such as CDRWIN), > generally > >>> produces an excellent copy of the data onto your hard drive. > > ********************* > > >Depends on your drive. Plextor and other "accurate-stream" do indeed > >give you the right answer almost every time. El-Cheapo drives often > >don't. > > ********************* > > False. The brand and/or design of CDROM one uses to do an extraction > with EAC has nothing to do with the results. EAC, by design and when > used correctly, gives identical results every time. That's the whole > point. In fact, I'd say that using CDRWin and a Plex is arguably less > accurate than using EAC and "Jim's Pretty Good CDROM Company"s cheapo > CDROM drive. I don't want an "excellent" copy, I was a *perfect* copy. > I suggest you actually verify that this is so. I ran a disk through ten cycles of EAC on a disk that had 9 tracks. Track 9 was damaged slightly (plays fine, but EAC, cdparanoia, etc. take a lot of time with it) and track 9 failed to give two identical md5's out of the 10 runs. The other tracks gave consistent md5's. Every time, EAC reported that it had successfully extracted the track. This was with a Plextor UltraPlex40 SCSI with an Adaptec 2940UW host adapter. With a Yamaha (unknown model) SCSI reader/writer, no track ever got the same md5 twice. EAC (and cdparanoia which uses the same routines) are still your best bet, but I don't trust them to always give exact results--especially on non-plextor drives. -- Wayne D. Hoxsie Jr. wayne@hoxnet.com http://www.hoxnet.com PGP Key ID 138BCEE1 ------------------------------ From: "Gary Johnson" Subject: Shoud I Buy a new DAT Deck? Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 10:17:48 -0700 I feel that my D-7 is running out of gas. It's been to the service center a couple of times in the last 2 years and just seems tired. Would it be in my best intrest to buy a new say, M1 or D100? I patch and help people do conversions via my pc. I personally tape maybe 15 shows a year(of course, I would like to tape more.) Is the media going to be around long enough to justify me spending a grand on a deck and another 7 pin? I would prefer new, rather than used. Thanks for your input. -Gary _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: Todd Romero Subject: Re: loud crowd/quiet shows & levels Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:34:56 -0400 (EDT) if it were me taping and the crowd is louder than the music, id relocated to a better spot or not even tape, cause the spl is obviously way to low to get a good recording anyway. On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Scott Bernstein wrote: > I know this has come up a few times, but I think the best solution I've > found is to optimize the recording levels for the music and not worry about > going "over" during the clapping and loud crowd outbursts. Why would you > care if the waveforms of the outbursts/clapping are distorted? You're there > to record the music. Also, this would provide some sort of built-in > limiting since a maximum sample is a maximum sample no matter how loud it > is. > > Scott > > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > ------------------------------ From: "David Carroll" Subject: ISO Neil Finn 2002 Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 20:34:51 +0100 Hi Looking for Neil Finn shows from his US tour. I taped the following Neil Finn that I can offer: Birmingham 18 Sep 1998 (Aud) Sheffield 26 Sep 1998 (Aud) Nottingham 3 Oct 1998 (Aud ) Bradford 6 Oct 1998 (Aud) London 4 Feb 2001 (Aud ) Nottingham 27 Apr 2001 (Aud ) Sheffield 29 Apr 2001 (Aud ) Birmingham 12 May 2001 (Aud) Darnall, Sheffield 8 Aug 2001 (Aud ) Thanks Dave ------------------------------ From: "Wayne D. Hoxsie Jr." Subject: Re: Asymmetrical waveforms Reply-To: wayne@hoxnet.com Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 15:07:24 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 25 Jul 2002, Matt wrote: > I also calculated the DC offset with CE2k and found a similar result. It > seemed to be such a small fraction I didn't bother trying to correct it > since artifacts may become more apparent than any good changes it might > make. > > Someone mentioned it was caused Sound Pro's battery box in combination with > these mics at very high spl. It was REALLY loud, so that could be it. He > said that AT's battery boxes were better and don't do this. I would think > something seemingly simple like a BB would be really similar across brands, > but maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about. > I guess those AT BBs are mono so you need two, and they are bulky. Anyone > know anything more about them (links)? > Thanks! > > MattB The AT boxes are large (about the size of a pack of cigarettes each) but they are much better in my opinion. They are balanced for one thing and they are more than just bias voltage; they have a pre-amp built-in as well. I don't think the SP version of AT mics can be used with them though. The AT mics use a three wire system and (IIRC) the SP's only use two. -- Wayne D. Hoxsie Jr. wayne@hoxnet.com http://www.hoxnet.com PGP Key ID 138BCEE1 ------------------------------ From: "rush fan" Subject: Rush trading Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 17:39:49 -0400 If anyone wants to do some Rush FTP trading, I have Hartford (3 different sources: '02, CtM and Ceddy), scranton (BTotM), saratoga and wantaugh. I am looking for SHN copies of any/all of the other shows or other sources of these shows. My FTP or yours. I have plenty of other Rush to trade if you want going back to 1974. Regards, RT _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx ------------------------------ From: "Dan" Subject: extra Les Claypool @ GOTV 2K2 on DAT for B+P Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 20:25:46 -0400 This is for the recent Les Claypool set at the Gathering of the Vibes in Mariaville, NY on 7/05/02. It was recorded with B&K's and does have some wind noise on it (most evident between songs). It's on one KAO 60m DAT. In return, I'd like one sealed Sony or Maxell 60 or 90m DAT plus postage. First to respond** after the Digest hits my mailbox gets it. ('The contest' ends 48 hours after I get the Digest, and I will email all who respond.) Peace, -Dan- **Unless you're willing to do B+P's for others, which I would give preference to (and you wouldn't have to be 'first') in which case tell me how many B+P's for others you're willing to make...the more the merrier! ------------------------------ From: "TCH" Subject: gin blossomsb+p Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 20:03:52 -0500 Received gin blossoms under conditions of offering b+p offering gin blossoms b+p to first 5 gin blossoms jacksonville,fl 6-1-02 hujar@ev1.net ------------------------------ From: "TCH" Subject: gin blossoms b+p Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 20:40:36 -0500 well I made the offer too soon...I'm listening to it now and it is gin blossoms in columbus ohio Rib festival Its not a 2002 show because I looked up the rib festival schedule and they were not listed as one of the bands performing...so that being known its still a good show...I'm figuring it out and if your one of the people interested I'll hope to know more....I'm waiting on a reply from the offer-er...... ------------------------------ From: "TCH" Subject: gin blossoms Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 20:49:48 -0500 Sorry!...crapola this is embarrasing Last post...I have correct info now It is Gin Blossoms cincinnati,oh 6-13-02 rib america1cd -tch ------------------------------ From: "Fares Halteh" Subject: ISO: tapers Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 22:10:24 -0400 Cinjun Tate (lead singer of Remy Zero) will be performing for a live broadcast in the studio of WRVE 99.5 /Albany at 8:30 Friday morning (tomorrow) He will perform 1-2 songs plus an interview. If anyone is available to tape this, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Mike Gaddy the_gaddrow@hotmail.com ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** To unsubscribe from this digest, please send email to dat-heads-unsubscribe@datheads.phish.net If your email address has changed, you may (optionally) send the message to dat-heads-unsubscribe-oldaddress=olddomain@datheads.phish.net and the old address will be removed. Problems or questions about a subscription should be addressed via these avenues and then if needed to dat-heads-owner@datheads.phish.net or postmaster@datheads.phish.net never the list itself You can submit a message for inclusion in the next digest via this address: Internet: dat-heads@datheads.phish.net Archives of DAT-Heads digests and related files are available on the DAT-Heads home page: http://www.solorb.com/dat-heads/ End of DAT-Heads Digest ******************************