DAT-heads Digest #421
Contents:
Taping Sponge/7 Mary 3/Spin Doctors/Gin Blossoms Tour (Comnaround@aol.com)
Taping Bruce Springsteen info ("jfranzreb")
Ghost e-mail addresses in the [AT] selling saga (Pymnt@aol.com)
IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO STEALTH TAPE, so please don't use that to (acffh)
Tasty Petty/Browne Last Night Tampa (Levyrocks@aol.com)
skip this if you no longer care about levyrocks ("Chris Siegl")
YES Tour 2002 information - Radio City YES Show 9/5/01 + (JBABC0CK@aol.com)
Re: Cleaning up DATs ("Stanley W. Smith")
Def Leppard in store acoustic set Munich, Germany 08-07-2002 (BlackCrowes@gmx.net)
Norah Jones Anyone???? (Gabe)
From: Comnaround@aol.com
Subject: Taping Sponge/7 Mary 3/Spin Doctors/Gin Blossoms Tour
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 09:39:34 -0400
Anyone had any experience so far? I think the Spin Doctors are cool with it and I know the Gin Blossoms don't really care. I'd love to run my full rig for at least the Spin Docs and The Gin Blossoms this Sunday in Richmond,VA . Thanks!
mark lynn
From: "jfranzreb" <jfranzreb@joffo.com>
Subject: Taping Bruce Springsteen info
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 07:08:43 -0700
A friend of mine who knows I am taping the Cleveland gig forwarded
this to me from someone who attended the NJ show......
"Finally, I did not sneak any taping devices in (that is not
my gig)-I was assured others did, but be careful. There was this
big dude who I guess worked for Bruce in all black who kept walking
around. I am telling you he was looking for taping devices, so
for our soldiers who tape-be careful."
Just a heads up for all those taping Bruce this tour.
Jeff
From: Pymnt@aol.com
Subject: Ghost e-mail addresses in the [AT] selling saga
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 10:15:09 -0400
[anonymized]
Let's not start these bogus ideas about ghost e-mail addresses just to try and make [AT] look good.
First of all - I live in Syracuse, NY - 8 hours from NJ. I am in the local phone book. Second - there are people who honestly believe Austin was innocent. I am one of those people. I am getting nothing from nobody in writing these posts. It's just my opinion, which I believe I am entitled to state publicly.
Chris Payment
From: acffh <morst@tds.net>
Subject: IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO STEALTH TAPE, so please don't use that to
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 10:22:42 -0500
At some concerts, it might be "prohibited" to bring in recording
gear, and they can eject you from the show for it, but that does in
no way make it AGAINST ANY LAW to record live shows. It might be
illegal to MAKE ANY MONEY selling the tapes, but it's not a crime to
have them.
Please don't attempt to equate the morality of someone selling other
people's work with being serious enough about recording to risk
ejection from a favorable concert. It's not even close. If you
don't believe me, photocopy a steven king book and try to go sell it
at the mall, then make a cellphone call from a movie theatre. See
which one gets you into more trouble.
-tom
Let me make 1 final point - "YES" the selling of live cds is illegal in the
eyes of certain people/organizations. BUT, so is the secret stealthing of
hundreds and hundreds of concerts across the U.S. and the world no matter if
the artists/groups are rock, pop, country, bluegrass, folk, new age, etc.
Maybe we all should look in the mirror after shows are stealthed, and ask if
what he did was wrong. HELL - maybe that taper should just turn his DAT tape
and recorder into security and say that he was wrong in taping this concert,
even though the recording sounds great!!!!
Sorry for rambling - I had a couple words to say.
Chris Payment
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
From: Levyrocks@aol.com
Subject: Tasty Petty/Browne Last Night Tampa
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 11:23:01 EDT
Well I did it!! Got 2 fantastic tapes of both Petty and Browne, JB brought
entire band and played just like an old 70s era Browne show, no new songs,
just got out there and did it like 76 all over again!! What a treat,
Pretender brought tears to my eyes,
what can you say about Petty he was like an hour from home, really blasted
all night, caught the whole thing from lower 110s SONY ECM717s->D8->CDR, will
seek trades for more Petty and of course Bruce, once Im done would be willing
to ship a copy to
someone on list whose looking to tree etc. Contact me if you tape The Boss
tonight I
got tons of Boss vintage and last tour of course and other stuff, looking for
Petty 2002s now, after that show hes one of the truest classics,
- Yours Bill
levyrocks@aol.com
From: "Chris Siegl" <senorplow99@hotmail.com>
Subject: skip this if you no longer care about levyrocks
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 13:20:03 -0400
our buddy bill levy said ...
"You got a guy here who could write a great horror novel about a horrible
demon who runs an international bootleg ring that
spans all the way from Key West to NYC with a multiple network of tapers
feeding him precious recordings ..."
hey bill ...
how can an "international" bootleg ring span all the way from key west to
new york city? is that like a "interstate" highway that runs between
pittsburg and philadelphia?
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From: JBABC0CK@aol.com
Subject: YES Tour 2002 information - Radio City YES Show 9/5/01 +
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 13:22:44 EDT
I hope this provides you all some interesting reading!
(Especially anyone taping at Radio City)
Out of the 4 YESshows I made it to this year, Radio City Music Hall was the
most interesting & disappointing. I had 2nd row dead center 1st Mezz., where
the sound is at it's best, (and believe me, it sounded fantastic!) but sadly
this show sported the WORST BEHAVED crowd I have ever seen at a show. They
talked incessantly throughout the quiet parts, the screamed & hooted and
growled and yelled and even hollered jokes during the songs. I personally was
thwarted out of a good capture for the first set, as the guy sitting directly
in front of me was so enthusiastic that he Leaped up, whistled, cheered,
groaned, orgasmed and essentially embedded himself into even the most subtle
parts of the music. In the seats behind me to the left and right were his
mirror-image friends, who answered most of his catcalls with noise of their
own. They even talked back and forth over me even when I protested about
this. So I was in the "unholy triangle" that night.
All this for $100/seat. The lesson I've learned is that ticket prices like
that attract an unfortunate element that ain't all about the taping, they're
all about the partying. They paid for it, they can afford the Radio City
liquor and there's no arguing with drunks.
.)(.
That said, i did see 4 other tapers all in my area who grimaced excessively
during the tape-ruining display these guys handed us, but i wonder if there
were any more who landed in the right spot to get a good capture?
Near as i can tell, the best spots for this tape would have had to be the
first 5 or so rows (preferably off to the left to get the pipe organ) or
anywhere directly in front of the stacks. That won't capture the superb Radio
City sound we got in the front mezz, but it might help drown out the drunks.
On a brighter note, the real reason for this travesty was simply NO security.
The Radio City web page tells you there will be a tough search, but that's
pretty much all they've invested into it. Going in have your bags ready to be
inspected, but you can pocket just about anything and there was no patdown
whatsoever. Could have brought in 3 decks. Inside there was smoking, drinking
and could probably have even been videotaping galore, as no ushers or
security are employed to police the seating area. At least none that I saw.
PNC the following night had VERY tough security. No problem getting through
the gates but the staff is very professional & scrutinizing during the show.
Be very cautious there and keep your gear out of view.
So for those of you recording YES this year, it seems the task at hand is
given over to random placement and hope to not to be next to the guys that
must verbalize their approval. The one thing every Yes fan has in common is
their enthusiasm for the music and energy that they can finally release
release at the show (few of them have the slightest clue about tapers). They
probably are so lost in the moment that they don't even realize they may be
ruining the show for casual concertgoers as well. Another common factor I
have seen is to bring a spouse (ether sex) that is NOT familiar with the
music and talks incessantly during the show or is given a play-by-play
throughout.
More information....
Here are the shows that still need tapers:
August 20 Santa Fe, NM, Paolo Soleri Amphitheatre - NO TAPERS SCHEDULED
August 21 Phoenix, AZ Cricket Pavilion - NO TAPERS SCHEDULED
It would be great if someone could catch these.
Here are the shows that have not yet been reported as taped:
July 23, Bonner Springs, KS, Sandstone Amphitheatre - Missing
July 27, Detroit, MI, The Fox Theatre - Missing
(So if anyone taped these I would love to hear from you.)
The August 9th Columbia, MD, Merriweather Post Pavilion show will be
broadcast via XM Satellite Radio two weeks later. Let's hope someone can
catch that.
>whew<
In conclusion, if anyone has a good capture of Radio City, please get in
touch with me. If you are just after some shows give me a few more weeks,
tons of DAT tapes to deal with and now i have to go back to work to pay for
these crimes against my pocketbook.
;-|
jb
(lost in all the noise)
From: "Stanley W. Smith" <swsmith@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Cleaning up DATs
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 14:32:30 -0500
Hey All Y'all,
I'd agree w/ Candace on all but the order of operations in processing...
Compress the signal (or parts of it)first, then do the noise reduction and
high/low pass
filtering, then EQ to restore any loss of punch or clarity caused by the
compression process,
then renormalize. Doing it in this order treats the "problems" in a mix
from broad to subtle,
and is less likely to radically change the original qualities and sound of
the original tape.
Resample at most twice, once on the way into the DAW or computer (if
required),
and once on the way out. Work at as high a resolution and bit depth as you
can,
_especially_ when doing multiple processes, then redither ONCE to the
16/44.1
Red Book standard for the final mix. This will preserve as much of the
original
information as recorded as possible. (Hell, if you can work at 24/96 or
higher,
go for it, but remember to do as few resamples as possible whatever the
case... ;) )
Compression will get you close to the range of signal you want, tho it's all
too easy to
go for apparent loudness at the expense of dynamic range, and I prefer to
reserve
it for individual problem channels rather than a whole final mix. Stay away
from the
extremes and you'll serve the music better in the long run. A soft-knee
setting, with
medium attack, long release time, and a reasonable compression level (2:1 >
10:1)
that's acting just on the extreme peaks of the signal (gently taking the
initial attack of the
waveform and bringing it closer to the average level of the signal...)
should be the most
radical thing you try unless you're attempting to tame a raging guitar or
screaming vocal
on an individual track... Easy does it... ;) If you're working on a
stereo pair, then
even less extreme ratio settings are recommended. You're cleaning up, not
mastering.
If you _must compress the whole mix, a good multi-band compressor plug-in
will often
do more for you than a full-range one. If only the bass frequencies are
clipping,
there's no need to apply compression to the mids and highs, right?
Do as little as needed to achieve your goal. Once the extreme peaks are
tamed it's time
to EQ.
There are different "styles" of EQ that may be applied... Corrective
surgery, sweetening
(aka: mastering curves), and high or low pass curves can all be utilized for
curing different
problems. For example, making a small cut (-1>6 dB) in selected frequencies
that may be
masking other parts of the frequency spectrum is preferable to boosting all
of the other frequencies.
Make sure that you're using a filter set to as narrow a band as possible, so
as not to affect
adjacent frequencies... this results in fewer changes to the original
signal, which is what
we're after. This is useful for removing say, a persistent regular snare
rattle caused by
sympathetic vibration from the bass cabinet, airconditioning rumbles , and
the dreaded bass
coupling through the vocal mics. EQ is not the tool for removing
intermittent snaps, pops,
or cable crackles however.
You'll want to find appropriate de-noisers for that. The Waves XT stuff
works well for me.
Great 50-60Hz humm & buzz removal tool as well. YMMV.
This is also the time to try some shelving filters - High/low pass can clean
up all sorts of sonic
grunge, especially the extreme sub-bass mung that'll eat your woofers...
Look for peaks in the
waveforms from 120 Hz on down, and nuke almost anything below 30 Hz (unless
you're mixing
for full Dolby 5.1 surround in a theatre... ;) ). This alone will clear up
almost all the horrible stuff
caused by wind and air movement in most outdoor audience tapes, BTW.
Now that the obnoxious noises are gone, a bit of sweetening EQ could come in
handy.
Again restraint is the key word here. Try not to produce the next great
studio album.
It kinda' defeats the whole 'live tape' thing... ;) Unless the difference
is just absolutely amazing,
on several different playback systems, and to everyone who listens to it,
then seriously consider
just leaving it alone. If you do decide to manipulate the signal anyway,
clearly lable and identify
what you did to it on all trades & B&Ps. Or clean up one set for your own
listening enjoyment,
make another unmodified set for archive/backup, and only send out the
unmodified set to others.
Lastly, renormalize the whole thing. Leave just a bit of room at the top,
as it's not required to make
the meters go all the way to up "0" all of the time... ;) A tape/disc that
peaks at 0.5 is perfectly fine.
This is like the final polishing step, and also helps to "cover your tracks"
so to speak (Oy!) by
blurring the edges of all your edits, tweaks, and adjustments.
Of course you've got decent nearfields, a reasonably accurate
room/monitoring space to work in,
and good D>A converters, right? If not, you're probably better off doing
just some basic noise
correction, gentle high-pass filtering to tame the overactive bass response
(try this at the show next
time on the initial recording, especially if you're running FOB or onstage
mics) and a bit of
renormalization, and leaving well enough alone.
Feel free to play with the gear, but unless you're seriously gifted with
the golden ears most folks
would rather hear the original source material as recorded, "warts and all".
Stan (Back to "radical sound surgery" in ProTools - removing all of the
"uhh", "like", "ya know?",
& other brain-not-directly-connected-to-the-speech-centers conversational
filler from a spoken-
word piece, which takes _for-ever_ but makes the speaker at least sound
semi-educated when
finished) Smith ;^)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Brendan asked:
<o EQ (primarily large amounts of bass roll-off)
o Normalization
o Compression (for situations where an attenuator cable was required or
and/or the pre-EQ bass was extremely heavy and normalization doesn't
completely fix the problem)
o A few pop reductions (a case of a bad mic cable, primarily between
songs when moving the unit to read the display)
The last two are primarily to be "nice" to people's stereo equipment.
My questions are specifically:
1. What would the recommended order of steps be? Where best is defined as
"best output" based on both the reducing the effects of resampling errors
as well as allowing my ears to make the best decisions along the way.
2. Would it behoove me to work in the 32-bit domain if performing multiple
transformations or is 16-bit good enough?>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: "Candace Horgan" <candace@spacewrangler.com>
Subject: Cleaning up DATs
Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 21:51:35 -0600
Here's my general take on things. First of all, I don't use Cool Edit, I
use SAW. If you load a 16 bit DAT tape into SAW, it automatically adds 8
bits on when you move it to a multi-track setting. All your compressiong,
limiting, processing etc. then is done in a 24 bit setting, giving you more
to play with. Before you burn to CD, you dither down to 16 bits. If Cool
Edit works this way and you intend to do destructive processing to your
masters, then yes, go to 32 bit.
As for the other stuff:
Order: EQ, compression, normalize, then do pop reductions to the new mix.
On another note, I think you should try to avoid EQ at all costs, unless the
master is really bad. Most CDs I've heard where people have done extensive
EQ end up sounding worse. Besides, isn't the ultimate goal of the tape to
give you the most accurate representation of what you heard at the show? If
so, no EQ, unless the engineer didn't know what s/he was doing.
Cheers
Candace
From: BlackCrowes@gmx.net
Subject: Def Leppard in store acoustic set Munich, Germany 08-07-2002
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 19:38:22 +0200 (MEST)
Hi there,
caught Leppard here in Munich at a short acoustic set while promoting their
new album "X" in a local record shop...They only played 3 songs (Two steps
behind, Now, Pour some sugar on me), the entire set lasted some 20 minutes
only.Tape came out close to perfect, especially when considering the tight
security and the one small speaker on each side of the stage.
Makes a perfect filler....maybe not enough for a trade alone, only if
there's a die hard fan out there in DAThead land..
08-07-2002 DEF LEPPARD @ Saturn Hansa Record Store, Munich/Germany 20
OKMII>SBM-1>PCM M1 A/A+
Spoke with Joe Elliot, Phil Collen and Vivian Campell after the set when
they signed my stuff about their attitude towards us fans taping their shows for
non commercial purposes...They all were TOTALLY COOL about this and
encouraged me to bring whatever I want to upcoming shows...The only thing they don't
want is that official releases being copied...
Best from Munich, Germany
--
GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
http://www.gmx.net
From: Gabe <lyinrgrvs@yahoo.com>
Subject: Norah Jones Anyone????
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2002 11:52:45 -0700 (PDT)
Have come across some of her shows and I'm looking to
get some more. Anyone
willing to do some trades please let me know,
Gabe
www.phishhook.com/lists/lyinrgrvs
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