DAT-heads Digest #483, Volume #6 Tue, 24 Sep 02 22:50:01 EDT Contents: New Gov't Mule Taping Policy ("DRider") Re: $800.00 Smackers ("Wayne Brissette") FT: Springsteen 9-22 (aneurhythms) town hall taping ("scott charles") Re: $800? Are you f-ing kidding me? ("Stanley W. Smith") Re: tube pre-amps for concert dat recording? (Todd Romero) Paying to Tape - Hornsby , Kimmock etc . (artood2) Super Furry Animals taping policy? ("James G. Lykos") Ohh too many E-mails (PAUL HOVORAK) $800..?! (Jason Ho) $800 buys you exactly what? (Jason Neely) EcoCharge Question / WTB EC / $800- / Tix Grovel / BWT :) (Richard) Mini Me Voltage ("Frank Rinaldi") SCI 10-19-02 PDX. Need someone to run my deck. ("Chris Mcgrath") charging $ for taping (david cohen) $800 to record -- again, it's a union thing, people. (pwking) List "Appropriate" Letters (TheSchoolNerd@aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DRider" Subject: New Gov't Mule Taping Policy Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:14:26 -0400 This is the new Mule taping info...... GOV'T MULE AUDIO RECORDING, PHOTO AND VIDEO POLICY **Note to Tapers** New this tour, Gov't Mule will be offering a designated "Taper Section" to help ensure our beloved tapers the best possible sound quality and some gear protection from the masses. For seated shows hard tickets are available, but limited to two (2) tickets per purchase. For general admission shows there will be a roped off section directly behind the soundboard, which will be cut off once it is filled so be sure you arrive early. The first half hour of door time will be for tapers only. Please specify "Taper Ticket" when you purchase your tickets to ensure a large enough section. Recording Audience taping is permitted at Gov't Mule shows. When Gov't Mule is performing at a festival or other event featuring multiple bands, that particular event's policy may override Mule's customary taping policy. When Gov't Mule is opening for another artist, that particular artist's policy may override Mule's customary taping policy. All taping is limited to audience only. NO SOUNDBOARD PATCHES ARE EVER ALLOWED. NO VIDEO OR PHOTOGRAPHY IS EVER ALLOWED. The enjoyment of the audience in attendance at a concert always takes precedence over recording efforts. This means that at no time should tapers ever require other patrons to be quiet or otherwise interfere with their enjoyment of the show. Duplication All participants in audio recording exchange (regardless of format) acknowledge and respect the copyrights and exclusive ownership of the music and performances by the performers, writers and publishers. All taping must be for personal use only, which may include trading (via analog or digital tape, CD, or digital file transfer). Recordings may be traded only for an equivalent amount of similar media (cassettes or CDs, pre-recorded or blank). If we have chosen to offer for sale (via physical media such as CD, Cassette, or via digital download) a particular Mule performance, this "official" version will take precedence over amateur recordings and said performance should no longer be traded. In no case may any officially-released Gov't Mule recording (live or studio) be duplicated or otherwise traded or offered. Audience taping at Mule concerts is authorized for non-commercial purposes only. Unauthorized sale, duplication and/or distribution is strictly forbidden. All Mule performances and recordings are the exclusive property of Gov't Mule. All rights reserved. The rights to record Gov't Mule performances set forth in this policy constitute an express, revocable license. We reserve the right to withdraw our sanction of recording, tape trading, and/or non-commercial digital audio file transfers on a case specific basis or in general, as we deem necessary. No waiver of any copyright or trademark right is intended. If you are aware of any person or site in violation of this policy, please inform us. Thank you. =======message ends======== Peace, D-Rider ------------------------------ From: "Wayne Brissette" Subject: Re: $800.00 Smackers Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:17:04 -0500 Digestifier DAT-heads-Request@datheads.phish.net on 24 September 2002 stated: >From: Seth Breidbart >Subject: Re: $800.00 Smackers >Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:39:41 -0400 (EDT) > >> I have a real hard time believing that someone in the Hornsby/Kimock >> clan would ever ask for $$ to hook up to the board..much less even >> take the $$ if offered...This is a "SHAM" to rip you and me via >> DatHeads....What BS! > >You should try reading before posting, you won't look as foolish. > >The union in that place requires payment if recording will be >allowed. Argue with them. I've worked two trade shows in NYC. You better not even think about plugging crap into electrical outlets unless the union rep does it. They will yank your power quicker than you can blink. It's also the only place I've done a trade show where we actually brought bribe money so we could get our gear off the docks and into the show floor. The fact that the union charges doesn't surprise me, what does is that other NYC venues (wetlands) didn't have union folks to jerk folks around. Wayne -- "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. " - Albert Einstein Live DAT & Music Page: http://homepage.mac.com/wayneb/ PowerMail AppleScript Archives: http://homepage.mac.com/wayneb/powermail.html ------------------------------ From: aneurhythms Subject: FT: Springsteen 9-22 Reply-To: aneurhythms@ziplip.com Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Springsteen 9-22 FOB:MBHO master! Only looking for other HQ "big-rig" tapes of Springsteen or Stones right now. I can only accomodate a few trades. ------------------------------ From: "scott charles" Subject: town hall taping Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:53:36 +0000 so the $800 is a taping fee the union charges... makes me glad that I stealth there instead. I'd make the union do something for their money. _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Stanley W. Smith" Subject: Re: $800? Are you f-ing kidding me? Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:02:50 -0500 I'll assume you're joking about the eBay auction... could be a dangerous thing to suggest around here considering recent flame wars... ;) Let me shed some light on the situation... In some jurisdictions the IATSE (International Alliance of Theatrical and Stage Employees aka: the Local Union) has contract provisions in place with the venue, promoter, or production company that is producing the show that stipulate an additional fee be paid in the event the performance is recorded for commercial purposes; film, video, potential album release, later rebroadcast, etc. If the fee is not paid then the show may be forced to cancel due to lack of crew... (I have seen this happen, BTW...) I assume there was either some confusion as to what the actual purpose of taping the show was on the part of the Local Union, or it was a rather extortionate cash grab... Local #1 is not known for it's charitable nature and willingness to back off on fees... :| Stan Smith ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Scott Goodwin Subject: $800? Are you f-ing kidding me? Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 09:35:28 -0400 Lemme get this straight: Someone charged someone EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS to plug into the board for a Hornsby/Kimock show? That is absolutely insane!! Who charged you? What was the reasoning? And most importantly, why in the hell did anyone PAY IT?!?!? Un-f*cking-believable!! I'm going to go get a few Hornsby live CDRs I recorded ready to sell on eBay... Bidding, it seems, should start at $800. SWG --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.384 / Virus Database: 216 - Release Date: 08/21/2002 ------------------------------ From: Todd Romero Subject: Re: tube pre-amps for concert dat recording? Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:17:54 -0400 (EDT) ok, well aside from the AC power issue, which i already have a working solution for, is there any real negative technical issues about using a tube pre for concert recording? or is it safe to say im treading in uncharted waters? i guess ill be the guinea pig and test it out at an upcoming trey show or somehting :) On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Michael Hackett wrote: > On Mon, 23 Sep 02 19:50:00 EDT Todd Romero wrote: > > > i dont recall ever seeing much talk about using tube mic pre-amps for > > DAT concert recording. is there some issues with them that they are > > not optimal for concert recording? the only thing i can think might be > > an issue is having the 'drive' level too high or somehting were you > > would get natural tube distortion.. > > That would actually probably be better than the nasties that some > transistor pre-amps produce when overdriven. > > The big problem, I would guess, is power. I've never heard of a > battery-driven tube pre-amp, at least not portable. Even small tubes > probably suck a lot of juice. > ------------------------------ From: artood2 Subject: Paying to Tape - Hornsby , Kimmock etc . Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:20:58 -0700 to all the people up in arms about the recent payment to tape this has been COVERED ! check the archives I believe Gary Davis mentioned it, its called a location fee . While it normally applies to video shoots the venue has the right to charge whatever it feels. NO ONE got scammed , ripped off etc etc . This recently happened to someone who taped Chris Robinson Of the Black crowes at the EL RAY in La except he got charged $1000 for an audience tape! People in the Black Crowes Community stepped up and got him his money back via donations. While I dont agree with Location fees and would --NEVER-- Pay one (thank god for stealth skills & gear) they are more than legal if not all that ethical. ------------------------------ From: "James G. Lykos" Subject: Super Furry Animals taping policy? Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:21:51 -0400 Hello, I am thinking of going to the Super Furry Animals show on Friday and am wondering what their taping policy is. They weren't listed on BTAT and I couldn't find the information on their website. Any help is appreciated. --Jamie Lykos jlykos@nc.rr.com ------------------------------ From: PAUL HOVORAK Subject: Ohh too many E-mails Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:48:43 -0700 (PDT) For those concerned about too many e-mails being sent, there is a thing called the Digest format. Try it. It works great. Ticket postings are wonderful. Why buy from a scalper on E-bay? If you can help out people with similar interests that is all good, especially if the price is fair. As for Scott Goodwin, Hmmm. Do you have issues? BWT Milli Vanilli 2-28-88 Fox Theater, Boulder Co. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Jason Ho Subject: $800..?! Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:54:04 -0400 (EDT) $800 to tape?! That's enough money to get you on a plane to the next hornsby/kimock show to tape for free! Wow...I sure hope other venues don't do the same - is there somewhere you can find out which venues have this policy/union?? jason ------------------------------ From: Jason Neely Subject: $800 buys you exactly what? Reply-To: bondibox@bellsouth.net Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:15:35 -0400 > If you pay to record a show do you then own the rights to the > performance? And if you own the rights can you then legally sell copies > of the show to whomever you wish? Where does this leave the artist? If you pay the venue to patch in, and they in turn (supposedly) compensate the Union, that would imply some kind of agreement. This reminds me of the deal with Jerry @ the LFT in '87 when the union guys would come in the day after the show and symbolically boot-stomp the master reels. Seems that no matter how much Jerry & Co. wanted those tapes it was out of their hands. I imaging the Knit has a similar union agreement. If the hand can taketh away with impunity and without the artists consent, it looks like it's safe to say they have the capacity to give/sell access to the board with equal impunity. Still, I think the fee gives you the right to have the recordings exist (anyone remember a huge Springsteen fan getting his entire collection nabbed by the RIAA?). It also introduces a grey area assuming they would only do this for bands that allow taping. -jas ------------------------------ From: Richard Subject: EcoCharge Question / WTB EC / $800- / Tix Grovel / BWT :) Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:17:30 -0700 (PDT) Namaste Y'all! well, three nights ago my V2 went out after powering my MG300's for no more than 5 1/2 hours. i am using the 6v EcoCharge BP-50. Three weeks ago i ran it at Folks Fest for almost 8hrs a day...no problem. [i should probably state here that the Eco was ONLY powering the V2 on BOTH occasions] Any suggestions? Any solutions? Insights? The V2 is not more than 10 months old and i've babied it...fully charging it ALMOST right after every use. i'm really hoping this was a fluke... But anways i guess i am in the market for another 6v BP-50, used, if there are any floating around out there. My second job as a concert promoter at night, it is NOT uncommon to come along contracts that require paying certain entities for the ability to record. Some of this goes to ASCAP, others to Unions, others to who knows where else. i guess it's cool that someone is that fiscally well-off to provide a tape from a venue that is usually NOT that easy to work with... I like to lurk here in hopes of finding technical stuff...these past few flame wars have really sucked and made it a drag to read...i will offer NO position except to say RESPECT RESPECT RESPECT and a lil fucking common sense PLEASE! BWT: first three Branford Marsalis Quartet 10.01.00 Celebrity Theatre, PHX AZ SS DSMV>M1 third row 90m OR Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey 09.13.02 The Alley, Flagstaff AZ MG300 (onstage)>V2>Samson IV w/ SBD feed>M1 90m __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Frank Rinaldi" Subject: Mini Me Voltage Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:09:09 -0700 According to Apogee the actual voltage of the unit is 6.8-15 volts. The manual that is shipping with the unit is the beta version (dated May 2002 I believe) which states the unit will run off of 6 volts. That is where the discrepancy lies Drop me a line if you have any questions. Thanks, Frank Cascade Media, LLC For All Your Digital Recording Needs Portland, Oregon 503-234-4294 888-336-4643 503-232-5874- fax frank@cascademedia.net www.cascademedia.net ------------------------------ From: "Chris Mcgrath" Subject: SCI 10-19-02 PDX. Need someone to run my deck. Reply-To: "Chris Mcgrath" Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:36:04 -0700 My wife & her friends will be going while I stay home with the youngin'. She's agreed to set up everything but I need someone to run my D8 while she gets her groove thang on. I can reimburse you with blanks or a trade off my list. I'd prefer to hook up with one of the locals in Portland or a familiar taper buddy if possible. I'd greatly appreciate it. You guys is great! Chris ------------------------------ From: david cohen Subject: charging $ for taping Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:35:05 -0500 In a Union house, the Union makes the rules and all performers/patrons must live by those rules. if the venue is under union control, then union rules are standard practice...whine all you want, that's the way it is (pun intended in this case)..I can see other situations where charging a fee to record *might* be acceptable. For instance, tapers often take up more than one seat in a theatre, so that theatre might charge the taper extra for the space he rents for the night, as it will displace other paying patrons who then become "standing room only"....not a big issue with one taper, but 7 eat up some serious space for other patrons. Back in the day, I routinely bought 3 seats up front at GD shows just to have some space for taping...never complained, laid out the extra 70 bucks, part of the cost of the hobby...while $800 might be considered outrageous, the union is simply getting their share of the *potential* profits made by a recording from the board or audience...if it was me, I'd only pay that kinda cash if I was mixing the show as well! dave Sunshine Dave Dream, Producer & Host Dead Serious Wednesdays 11pm - 2am WORT 89.9 FM People's Republic of Madison, Wisconsin Avoid all needle drugs. the only dope worth shooting is Nixon. Abbie Hoffman ------------------------------ From: pwking Subject: $800 to record -- again, it's a union thing, people. Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:52:41 -0700 (PDT) as robert 'plummer' o'haire summed up this afternoon in a post that was apparently missed by many, the $800 fee to record at Town Hall had *nothing* to do with hornsby's people extorting from tapers, nor somebody pulling a scam on datheads, or anything of that nature. it's the required payment for a non-union worker to record/work in a union hall. it's a teamsters thing. many of us who tape in NYC have rubbed up against this policy from time to time... even the most taper friendly bands cannot allow taping in union halls. they might give a 'nudge nudge wink wink' okay to to quasi-official stealthing, but nothing above board, ever... not without fronting the union cash. i must say that i've never heard of an individual coughing up the teamster dollars so that others may openly tape at town hall, avery fisher hall, or any of the other union spots in the NY/NJ area. my kangol's off to suicide todd, the people's jimmy hoffa! :-) cheers peter (leave the guns, grab the cannoli...) ===== ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ web: http://home.nyc.rr.com/pedroworld AIM: sleepypedro ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: TheSchoolNerd@aol.com Subject: List "Appropriate" Letters Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:17:13 EDT Liam asked us to pitch in for Todd's patching effort and Sean replied: "..soliciting reimbursement here is not appropriate." Right on Sean! This list is meant exclusively for us to chime in on Austin's dad stealing his tapes and selling them on E-Bay, for Stones tickets with trade sliding-value rants, and for us to impose our ethics upon each other whenever we see fit (and of course- to say "fuck you" to each other when we percieve ourselves to be taken out of context). I say everyone can contribute to this list. Except the Irish. :P D ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** To unsubscribe from this digest, please send email to dat-heads-unsubscribe@datheads.phish.net If your email address has changed, you may (optionally) send the message to dat-heads-unsubscribe-oldaddress=olddomain@datheads.phish.net and the old address will be removed. Problems or questions about a subscription should be addressed via these avenues and then if needed to dat-heads-owner@datheads.phish.net or postmaster@datheads.phish.net never the list itself You can submit a message for inclusion in the next digest via this address: Internet: dat-heads@datheads.phish.net Archives of DAT-Heads digests and related files are available on the DAT-Heads home page: http://www.solorb.com/dat-heads/ End of DAT-Heads Digest ******************************