DAT-heads Digest #483
Contents:
New Gov't Mule Taping Policy ("DRider")
Re: $800.00 Smackers ("Wayne Brissette")
FT: Springsteen 9-22 (aneurhythms)
town hall taping ("scott charles")
Re: $800? Are you f-ing kidding me? ("Stanley W. Smith")
Re: tube pre-amps for concert dat recording? (Todd Romero)
Paying to Tape - Hornsby , Kimmock etc . (artood2)
Super Furry Animals taping policy? ("James G. Lykos")
Ohh too many E-mails (PAUL HOVORAK)
$800..?! (Jason Ho)
$800 buys you exactly what? (Jason Neely)
EcoCharge Question / WTB EC / $800- / Tix Grovel / BWT :) (Richard)
Mini Me Voltage ("Frank Rinaldi")
SCI 10-19-02 PDX. Need someone to run my deck. ("Chris Mcgrath")
charging $ for taping (david cohen)
$800 to record -- again, it's a union thing, people. (pwking)
List "Appropriate" Letters (TheSchoolNerd@aol.com)
From: "DRider" <Hawkwind@attbi.com>
Subject: New Gov't Mule Taping Policy
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:14:26 -0400
This is the new Mule taping info......
GOV'T MULE AUDIO RECORDING, PHOTO AND VIDEO POLICY
**Note to Tapers**
New this tour, Gov't Mule will be offering a designated "Taper Section" to
help ensure our beloved tapers the best possible sound quality and some gear
protection from the masses. For seated shows hard tickets are available, but
limited to two (2) tickets per purchase. For general admission shows there
will be a roped off section directly behind the soundboard, which will be
cut
off once it is filled so be sure you arrive early. The first half hour of
door time will be for tapers only. Please specify "Taper Ticket" when you
purchase your tickets to ensure a large enough section.
Recording
Audience taping is permitted at Gov't Mule shows. When Gov't Mule is
performing at a festival or other event featuring multiple bands, that
particular event's policy may override Mule's customary taping policy. When
Gov't Mule is opening for another artist, that particular artist's policy
may
override Mule's customary taping policy. All taping is limited to audience
only.
NO SOUNDBOARD PATCHES ARE EVER ALLOWED.
NO VIDEO OR PHOTOGRAPHY IS EVER ALLOWED.
The enjoyment of the audience in attendance at a concert always takes
precedence over recording efforts. This means that at no time should tapers
ever require other patrons to be quiet or otherwise interfere with their
enjoyment of the show.
Duplication
All participants in audio recording exchange (regardless of format)
acknowledge and respect the copyrights and exclusive ownership of the music
and performances by the performers, writers and publishers. All taping must
be for personal use only, which may include trading (via analog or digital
tape, CD, or digital file transfer). Recordings may be traded only for an
equivalent amount of similar media (cassettes or CDs, pre-recorded or
blank).
If we have chosen to offer for sale (via physical media such as CD,
Cassette,
or via digital download) a particular Mule performance, this "official"
version will take precedence over amateur recordings and said performance
should no longer be traded. In no case may any officially-released Gov't
Mule
recording (live or studio) be duplicated or otherwise traded or offered.
Audience taping at Mule concerts is authorized for non-commercial purposes
only. Unauthorized sale, duplication and/or distribution is strictly
forbidden. All Mule performances and recordings are the exclusive property
of
Gov't Mule. All rights reserved. The rights to record Gov't Mule
performances
set forth in this policy constitute an express, revocable license. We
reserve
the right to withdraw our sanction of recording, tape trading, and/or
non-commercial digital audio file transfers on a case specific basis or in
general, as we deem necessary. No waiver of any copyright or trademark right
is intended. If you are aware of any person or site in violation of this
policy, please inform us. Thank you.
=======message ends========
Peace,
D-Rider
From: "Wayne Brissette" <waynefb@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: $800.00 Smackers
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:17:04 -0500
Digestifier DAT-heads-Request@datheads.phish.net on 24 September 2002 stated:
>From: Seth Breidbart <sethb@panix.com>
>Subject: Re: $800.00 Smackers
>Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:39:41 -0400 (EDT)
>
>> I have a real hard time believing that someone in the Hornsby/Kimock
>> clan would ever ask for $$ to hook up to the board..much less even
>> take the $$ if offered...This is a "SHAM" to rip you and me via
>> DatHeads....What BS!
>
>You should try reading before posting, you won't look as foolish.
>
>The union in that place requires payment if recording will be
>allowed. Argue with them.
I've worked two trade shows in NYC. You better not even think about
plugging crap into electrical outlets unless the union rep does it. They
will yank your power quicker than you can blink. It's also the only place
I've done a trade show where we actually brought bribe money so we could
get our gear off the docks and into the show floor. The fact that the
union charges doesn't surprise me, what does is that other NYC venues
(wetlands) didn't have union folks to jerk folks around.
Wayne
--
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. "
- Albert Einstein
Live DAT & Music Page: http://homepage.mac.com/wayneb/
PowerMail AppleScript Archives: http://homepage.mac.com/wayneb/powermail.html
From: aneurhythms <aneurhythms@ziplip.com>
Subject: FT: Springsteen 9-22
Reply-To: aneurhythms@ziplip.com
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:39:46 -0700 (PDT)
Springsteen 9-22 FOB:MBHO master!
Only looking for other HQ "big-rig" tapes of Springsteen or Stones right now. I can only accomodate a few trades.
From: "scott charles" <scochar@hotmail.com>
Subject: town hall taping
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:53:36 +0000
so the $800 is a taping fee the union charges... makes me glad that I
stealth there instead. I'd make the union do something for their money.
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
From: "Stanley W. Smith" <swsmith@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: $800? Are you f-ing kidding me?
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:02:50 -0500
I'll assume you're joking about the eBay auction... could be a dangerous
thing to suggest around here considering recent flame wars... ;)
Let me shed some light on the situation...
In some jurisdictions the IATSE (International Alliance of Theatrical and
Stage Employees aka: the Local Union) has contract provisions in place with
the venue, promoter, or production company that is producing the show that
stipulate an additional fee be paid in the event the performance is recorded
for
commercial purposes; film, video, potential album release, later
rebroadcast, etc.
If the fee is not paid then the show may be forced to cancel due to lack of
crew...
(I have seen this happen, BTW...)
I assume there was either some confusion as to what the actual purpose of
taping the
show was on the part of the Local Union, or it was a rather extortionate
cash grab...
Local #1 is not known for it's charitable nature and willingness to back off
on fees... :|
Stan Smith
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Scott Goodwin <coryphaena_29403@juno.com>
Subject: $800? Are you f-ing kidding me?
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 09:35:28 -0400
Lemme get this straight: Someone charged someone EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS
to plug into the board for a Hornsby/Kimock show? That is absolutely
insane!! Who charged you? What was the reasoning? And most
importantly, why in the hell did anyone PAY IT?!?!?
Un-f*cking-believable!!
I'm going to go get a few Hornsby live CDRs I recorded ready to sell on
eBay... Bidding, it seems, should start at $800.
SWG
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.384 / Virus Database: 216 - Release Date: 08/21/2002
From: Todd Romero <todd@routeflap.net>
Subject: Re: tube pre-amps for concert dat recording?
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:17:54 -0400 (EDT)
ok, well aside from the AC power issue, which i already have a working
solution for, is there any real negative technical issues about using a
tube pre for concert recording? or is it safe to say im treading in
uncharted waters? i guess ill be the guinea pig and test it out at an
upcoming trey show or somehting :)
On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Michael Hackett wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Sep 02 19:50:00 EDT Todd Romero <todd@routeflap.net> wrote:
>
> > i dont recall ever seeing much talk about using tube mic pre-amps for
> > DAT concert recording. is there some issues with them that they are
> > not optimal for concert recording? the only thing i can think might be
> > an issue is having the 'drive' level too high or somehting were you
> > would get natural tube distortion..
>
> That would actually probably be better than the nasties that some
> transistor pre-amps produce when overdriven.
>
> The big problem, I would guess, is power. I've never heard of a
> battery-driven tube pre-amp, at least not portable. Even small tubes
> probably suck a lot of juice.
>
From: artood2 <artood2@shaw.ca>
Subject: Paying to Tape - Hornsby , Kimmock etc .
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:20:58 -0700
to all the people up in arms about the recent payment to tape
this has been COVERED !
check the archives I believe Gary Davis mentioned it, its called a location
fee .
While it normally applies to video shoots the venue has the right to charge
whatever it feels.
NO ONE got scammed , ripped off etc etc . This recently happened to someone
who taped Chris Robinson Of the Black crowes at the EL RAY in La except he
got charged
$1000 for an audience tape! People in the Black Crowes Community stepped up
and got him his money back via donations.
While I dont agree with Location fees and would --NEVER-- Pay one (thank god
for stealth skills & gear) they are more than legal if not all that
ethical.
From: "James G. Lykos" <jlykos@nc.rr.com>
Subject: Super Furry Animals taping policy?
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:21:51 -0400
Hello,
I am thinking of going to the Super Furry Animals show on Friday and am
wondering what their taping policy is. They weren't listed on BTAT and I
couldn't find the information on their website. Any help is appreciated.
--Jamie Lykos
jlykos@nc.rr.com
From: PAUL HOVORAK <washaufizzi@yahoo.com>
Subject: Ohh too many E-mails
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 16:48:43 -0700 (PDT)
For those concerned about too many e-mails being sent,
there is a thing called the Digest format. Try it. It
works great. Ticket postings are wonderful. Why buy
from a scalper on E-bay? If you can help out people
with similar interests that is all good, especially if
the price is fair. As for Scott Goodwin, Hmmm. Do
you have issues?
BWT Milli Vanilli 2-28-88 Fox Theater, Boulder Co.
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
From: Jason Ho <hoj@uoguelph.ca>
Subject: $800..?!
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:54:04 -0400 (EDT)
$800 to tape?! That's enough money to get you on a plane to the next
hornsby/kimock show to tape for free! Wow...I sure hope other venues don't
do the same - is there somewhere you can find out which venues have this
policy/union??
jason
From: Jason Neely <bondibox@bellsouth.net>
Subject: $800 buys you exactly what?
Reply-To: bondibox@bellsouth.net
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:15:35 -0400
> If you pay to record a show do you then own the rights to the
> performance? And if you own the rights can you then legally sell copies
> of the show to whomever you wish? Where does this leave the artist?
If you pay the venue to patch in, and they in turn (supposedly) compensate the
Union, that would imply some kind of agreement. This reminds me of the deal
with Jerry @ the LFT in '87 when the union guys would come in the day after the
show and symbolically boot-stomp the master reels. Seems that no matter how
much Jerry & Co. wanted those tapes it was out of their hands. I imaging the
Knit has a similar union agreement. If the hand can taketh away with impunity
and without the artists consent, it looks like it's safe to say they have the
capacity to give/sell access to the board with equal impunity.
Still, I think the fee gives you the right to have the recordings exist (anyone
remember a huge Springsteen fan getting his entire collection nabbed by the
RIAA?). It also introduces a grey area assuming they would only do this for
bands that allow taping.
-jas
From: Richard <wehideandseek@yahoo.com>
Subject: EcoCharge Question / WTB EC / $800- / Tix Grovel / BWT :)
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:17:30 -0700 (PDT)
Namaste Y'all!
well, three nights ago my V2 went out after powering
my MG300's for no more than 5 1/2 hours.
i am using the 6v EcoCharge BP-50.
Three weeks ago i ran it at Folks Fest for almost 8hrs
a day...no problem.
[i should probably state here that the Eco was ONLY
powering the V2 on BOTH occasions]
Any suggestions?
Any solutions?
Insights?
The V2 is not more than 10 months old and i've babied
it...fully charging it ALMOST right after every use.
i'm really hoping this was a fluke...
But anways i guess i am in the market for another 6v
BP-50, used, if there are any floating around out
there.
My second job as a concert promoter at night, it is
NOT uncommon to come along contracts that require
paying certain entities for the ability to record.
Some of this goes to ASCAP, others to Unions, others
to who knows where else.
i guess it's cool that someone is that fiscally
well-off to provide a tape from a venue that is
usually NOT that easy to work with...
I like to lurk here in hopes of finding technical
stuff...these past few flame wars have really sucked
and made it a drag to read...i will offer NO position
except to say RESPECT RESPECT RESPECT and a lil
fucking common sense PLEASE!
BWT: first three
Branford Marsalis Quartet
10.01.00
Celebrity Theatre, PHX AZ
SS DSMV>M1 third row
90m
OR
Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey
09.13.02
The Alley, Flagstaff AZ
MG300 (onstage)>V2>Samson IV w/ SBD feed>M1
90m
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
From: "Frank Rinaldi" <frank@cascademedia.net>
Subject: Mini Me Voltage
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:09:09 -0700
According to Apogee the actual voltage of the unit is 6.8-15 volts. The
manual that is shipping with the unit is the beta version (dated May 2002 I
believe) which states the unit will run off of 6 volts. That is where the
discrepancy lies
Drop me a line if you have any questions.
Thanks,
Frank
Cascade Media, LLC
For All Your Digital Recording Needs
Portland, Oregon
503-234-4294
888-336-4643
503-232-5874- fax
frank@cascademedia.net
www.cascademedia.net
From: "Chris Mcgrath" <imissmybus@earthlink.net>
Subject: SCI 10-19-02 PDX. Need someone to run my deck.
Reply-To: "Chris Mcgrath" <imissmybus@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:36:04 -0700
My wife & her friends will be going while I stay home with the youngin'.
She's agreed to set up everything but I need someone to run my D8 while she
gets her groove thang on. I can reimburse you with blanks or a trade off my
list. I'd prefer to hook up with one of the locals in Portland or a
familiar taper buddy if possible. I'd greatly appreciate it. You guys is
great! Chris
From: david cohen <decohen@ameritech.net>
Subject: charging $ for taping
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:35:05 -0500
In a Union house, the Union makes the rules and all performers/patrons must
live by those rules. if the venue is under union control, then union rules
are standard practice...whine all you want, that's the way it is (pun
intended in this case)..I can see other situations where charging a fee to
record *might* be acceptable. For instance, tapers often take up more than
one seat in a theatre, so that theatre might charge the taper extra for the
space he rents for the night, as it will displace other paying patrons who
then become "standing room only"....not a big issue with one taper, but 7
eat up some serious space for other patrons. Back in the day, I routinely
bought 3 seats up front at GD shows just to have some space for
taping...never complained, laid out the extra 70 bucks, part of the cost of
the hobby...while $800 might be considered outrageous, the union is simply
getting their share of the *potential* profits made by a recording from the
board or audience...if it was me, I'd only pay that kinda cash if I was
mixing the show as well! dave
Sunshine Dave Dream, Producer & Host
Dead Serious
Wednesdays 11pm - 2am
WORT 89.9 FM
People's Republic of Madison, Wisconsin
Avoid all needle drugs. the only dope worth shooting is Nixon.
Abbie Hoffman
From: pwking <sleepypedro@yahoo.com>
Subject: $800 to record -- again, it's a union thing, people.
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:52:41 -0700 (PDT)
as robert 'plummer' o'haire summed up this afternoon
in a post that was apparently missed by many, the $800
fee to record at Town Hall had *nothing* to do with
hornsby's people extorting from tapers, nor somebody
pulling a scam on datheads, or anything of that
nature. it's the required payment for a non-union
worker to record/work in a union hall. it's a
teamsters thing.
many of us who tape in NYC have rubbed up against this
policy from time to time... even the most taper
friendly bands cannot allow taping in union halls.
they might give a 'nudge nudge wink wink' okay to to
quasi-official stealthing, but nothing above board,
ever... not without fronting the union cash.
i must say that i've never heard of an individual
coughing up the teamster dollars so that others may
openly tape at town hall, avery fisher hall, or any of
the other union spots in the NY/NJ area. my kangol's
off to suicide todd, the people's jimmy hoffa! :-)
cheers
peter (leave the guns, grab the cannoli...)
=====
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
web: http://home.nyc.rr.com/pedroworld
AIM: sleepypedro
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
From: TheSchoolNerd@aol.com
Subject: List "Appropriate" Letters
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 22:17:13 EDT
Liam asked us to pitch in for Todd's patching effort and Sean replied:
"..soliciting reimbursement here is not appropriate."
Right on Sean! This list is meant exclusively for us to chime in on Austin's
dad stealing his tapes and selling them on E-Bay, for Stones tickets with
trade sliding-value rants, and for us to impose our ethics upon each other
whenever we see fit (and of course- to say "fuck you" to each other when we
percieve ourselves to be taken out of context). I say everyone can
contribute to this list. Except the Irish.
:P
D
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
To unsubscribe from this digest, please send email to
dat-heads-unsubscribe@datheads.phish.net
If your email address has changed, you may (optionally)
send the message to
dat-heads-unsubscribe-oldaddress=olddomain@datheads.phish.net
and the old address will be removed.
Problems or questions about a subscription should be addressed
via these avenues and then if needed to
dat-heads-owner@datheads.phish.net
or
postmaster@datheads.phish.net
never the list itself
You can submit a message for inclusion in the next digest via this address:
Internet: dat-heads@datheads.phish.net
Archives of DAT-Heads digests and related files are available on
the DAT-Heads home page:
http://www.solorb.com/dat-heads/
End of DAT-Heads Digest
******************************