DAT-heads Digest #501, Volume #6 Sun, 6 Oct 02 14:50:00 EDT Contents: ISO Stones Hartford 10/05/06 (mike lyons) FT: Rush - Irvine Meadows 09-28-02 (Darryl Deyerle) fs: schoeps mikes ("=?iso-8859-1?q?Mr.Binaurals?=") status of DAT-heads (L Sean Kennedy) Chicago ("John M. Tooley") Creative Nomad Jukebox Survey -HELP ! (-bob) FS:64-CD capacity Caselogic Nylon Wallets ("Winnie") midiman co2 may not be bit-accurate/ jb3 progress ("Jamie Lutch") Re: Creative Nomad Jukebox Survey -HELP ! (Mark Mayhle) Re: midiman co2 may not be bit-accurate/ jb3 progress (Mark Mayhle) Re: new to stealthing (ISTEIN2@aol.com) some stealth taping FAQ's i have learned ... (Re: new to stealthing) ("Tyler Huff") ft: elvis costello 9-25, 9-27, 9-28, 9-29, 10-1, 10-2-02 ("Oleg Grinshpan") RE: W2K Digital Output - (Jason Neely) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mike lyons Subject: ISO Stones Hartford 10/05/06 Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 08:29:42 -0700 (PDT) Hey there - if anyone happened to get this show last night could you contact me off-list for a trade. thanks in advance, Mike bandwith tax - I'll take a couple more B&P's for the Hornsby (w/ Kimock) Town Hall 9/20/02 show - cdr only. ===== __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Darryl Deyerle Subject: FT: Rush - Irvine Meadows 09-28-02 Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 08:52:57 -0700 Well, after all my taping woes at the Staples Center L.A. Rush show, I chucked my 8 year old D7, got me a new PCM-M1 from Terrapin, grabbed my Sonic Studios DSM6-S/L mics and headed for Irvine with 14th row seats in hand. I was pleased with the results! I'm looking to trade only for other Rush shows from the current tour or Yes shows from the current tour...especially the Yes shows. I can only trade on CDR right now. I digitally x-fer to computer via my Zefiro Acoustics ZA2 card, use Cool Edit Pro to downsample to 44.1 (999 quality setting) and burn on a Plextor. Take care, Darryl ------------------------------ From: "=?iso-8859-1?q?Mr.Binaurals?=" Subject: fs: schoeps mikes Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 17:52:25 +0200 (CEST) in mint condition.pair of mk41v>cmc6 mics. sample recording:(mercury rev) http://www.geocities.com/crappysoundingbinaurals/classic.mp3 done 8-30-02 mics angled 90 degrees ,11 cm . :) asking 2000$(includes shipping) please e-mail me in private for questions etc. muj ===== ______________________________________________________ Se den nye Yahoo! Mail på http://no.yahoo.com/ Nytt design, enklere å bruke, alltid tilgang til Adressebok, Kalender og Notisbok ------------------------------ From: L Sean Kennedy Subject: status of DAT-heads Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 12:18:36 -0400 Hi Folks, As I indicated earlier last month, DAT-heads is going to have to move systems in the coming weeks. This will probably occur around the 31st of October, at the latest by the 15th of November. I do not need to change the naming (or numbers), so at most, this should be a half-day slowdown in email. I may, though, choose around that point to introduce our own domain... we will see. This means that I have decided to continue running DAT-heads, but I do want to emphasize the conditionality of my support. I think its important to have a completely unmoderated forum regarding taping, divorced from trading any particular band, where people can state their opinion freely. However, this is still a privilege. Out of control discussions and personal attacks do not benefit anyone. In my case, I read all the DAT-heads messages as they come in, just in case something occurs that might inconvenience the list. The recent discussions made me consider unsubscribing and I got a number of requests to "moderate" or "block"... I generally refuse to do anything more than contact an offending individual, because the are rarely the sole participant/problem and "blocking" never fixes anything. In the recent discussion, even those who should know better, jumped in (myself included, lightly). So, there is a point where DAT-heads either impedes how I can do my job or impedes how I can respond to people contacting dat-heads-owner (this has been the case). And if that point is reached, I cannot support the list further. The good news is that we have survived since 1991, much longer and with less flaming than any other group I have participated in. We have been moderately-well behaved and the list has been moderately-well run. However, participants need to - Think about whether postings relate directly to taping - Respect a minority position may exist - If they are in the minority, do not try to match email-for-email the majority - Use private email to send more direct email or to continue a discussion after you have already made one or two posts. It is still not productive to attack someone whose opinion differs from yours, so do not consider private email as a license for such attacks. Lastly. Right now you are required to send plain text to DAT-heads. For most this means flagging messages as unformatted or reconfiguring your mailer (dat-heads-help@...has instructions) and for AOL users using theweb mail interface. The inconvenience is obvious, but an unintended side benefit has been that it helped keep viruses and spam off the list. (Also, even simply removing HTML content, means "editing" someone's message, which I am wary of.) Right now I am inclined to continue this practice, so participants also need to develop some technical savvy. I can help, but it would be a lot more efficient if you read the error messages about posting and follow the dat-heads-help@datheads.phish.net instructions first. Right now its difficult to get to all the help requests and most of them would be fine, if they were to read the directions... freeing me to help people who really need it. Thanks, Sean ------------------------------ From: "John M. Tooley" Subject: Chicago Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 12:27:03 -0400 I have tickets for Chicago, Salisbury, MD 11/24/02. Anybody know Chicago's taping policy? Thank you, John ------------------------------ From: -bob Subject: Creative Nomad Jukebox Survey -HELP ! Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 09:44:51 -0700 (PDT) In case you have not heard, the Creative Nomad Jukebox3 will record lossless .WAV files (16bit)from a digital input. Recent updates are showing great promise that it may well become a replacement for a D-7/8 or better in the taper's pit. Please take a moment and help to let the Creative folks know what we really need: http://websurveyor.net/wsb.dll/10236/pebble.htm Given the way this survey is written, it would seem that they are very MP3 and .JPG (!) oriented. On the survey, I chose "Other" and wrote in that I don't use MP3, I use SHN Lossless compression and .WAV format. I also told them that Digital Photos on a Jukebox doesn't make sense to me. We do need a portable DAT replacement sooner than later. Tascam is bowing out within a year or so. Sony is doing the same. So far, Marantz's 1.5 hour PDA690 stereo microdrive recorder at $1500 is the only standalone alternative that I've seen. Some jambands (ie. Karl Denson)are not allowing laptops nor HD "soundboard" recorders due to size concerns. WOB Tax as brainfood: More information on this type of recording can be found at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/laptop-tapers __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Winnie" Subject: FS:64-CD capacity Caselogic Nylon Wallets Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 12:54:44 -0400 I am changing the way I carry around CD's. I have (5) Caselogic Nylon 64-CD Wallets to sell. These are like new and have been used only a month. You can view them at the Caselogic web site. They sell for $17 each. I will sell them for $12 each plus shipping. ================================ "Without love in the dream it will never come true"-Robert Hunter Winnie Olmer Trades: ================================ ------------------------------ From: "Jamie Lutch" Subject: midiman co2 may not be bit-accurate/ jb3 progress Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 23:17:28 -0700 in the neverending quest to test the nomad jb3, I picked up a midiman co2 to test as the coax>optical converter I need before the unit. for those who arent familiar with it, it is a 9vdc powered little box that can take coax in and spit out both coax and optical. I did 3 tests with it, they were all horrendous, causing lierally 100's of short spikes of a few samples in the recording, many of which were audible as pops and clicks. this happened on both the coax out (to the vx) and the optical out (to the jb). I switched back to my other coax>optical converters, both get me to 'near-bit accuracy' (jb limited at this point) The performance was so bad with the co2, I'm going to have to consider the possibility that the unit might be defective. I'll try to get my hands on another unit to test (anyone have one of these? I'll pay shipping both ways, and will only need it for a day or so). I know some people were considering purchasing these to use with the jukebox. For now, I would hold off until more data becomes available. There are other $20 that can convert coax>optical (tho they are dead-enders, and dont allow for the continuation of a digi chain) wrt the jukebox, a few other tapers have got them now, were going to pool together and compile a database of transfer info to try and isolate the problems of the jb3, which so far seem to be random and non-repeatable. so again, for those considering purchasing a jukebox for recording, I'd hold off a bit till more data becomes available -Jamie ------------------------------ From: Mark Mayhle Subject: Re: Creative Nomad Jukebox Survey -HELP ! Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 12:20:33 -0500 (CDT) On Sun, 6 Oct 2002, -bob wrote: > In case you have not heard, the Creative Nomad > Jukebox3 will record lossless .WAV files (16bit)from a > digital input. Recent updates are showing great > promise that it may well become a replacement for a > D-7/8 or better in the taper's pit. This is very exciting stuff and your information has been most helpful-- please keep it coming! Any more news on your problem with dropouts? > Please take a moment and help to let the Creative > folks know what we really need: > > http://websurveyor.net/wsb.dll/10236/pebble.htm > > Given the way this survey is written, it would seem > that they are very MP3 and .JPG (!) oriented. -snip- > We do need a portable DAT replacement sooner than > later. Agreed! But it seems this survey is oriented towards a home playback device to get content wirelessly from computer to TV and stereo, rather than a portable record/playback device. Or am I misreading it? -- Mark Mayhle mark@mayhle.com ------------------------------ From: Mark Mayhle Subject: Re: midiman co2 may not be bit-accurate/ jb3 progress Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 12:24:23 -0500 (CDT) On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Jamie Lutch wrote: > co2, I'm going to have to consider the possibility that the unit might be > defective. I'll try to get my hands on another unit to test (anyone have one > of these? I'll pay shipping both ways, and will only need it for a day or > so). I have a couple of them you can test. > wrt the jukebox, a few other tapers have got them now, were going to pool > together and compile a database of transfer info to try and isolate the > problems of the jb3, which so far seem to be random and non-repeatable. so > again, for those considering purchasing a jukebox for recording, I'd hold > off a bit till more data becomes available Oops... just mistook someone else for you in a post, but let me correct myself by thanking you for the very helpful information you've been providing. I'm tempted to get one to run in parallel with my D100, but I think I'll wait until more information is forthcoming on the latest dropout problem you mentioned. -- Mark Mayhle mark@mayhle.com ------------------------------ From: ISTEIN2@aol.com Subject: Re: new to stealthing Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 13:31:35 EDT Obviously, you've just learned an important lession that taping can be difficult if you're not prepared for all these little situations that always happen. This is especially true of stealth taping where you have much less control of the recording environment around you. At least when taping is out in the open people see your mic stand and equipment and tend to give the taper some consideration and respect. When stealthing, people around you can be a problem. Even the taper himself can easily ruin his own recording if he sneezes, coughs, talks, sings, etc. You can't talk to people around you without them talking back to you directly into your mics! Going with a few friends (who act as a buffer by standing on each side of you) can help eliminate some of the crowd noise caused by strangers who would otherwise be standing or sitting next to you. You should have some basic hand signals worked out with your friends (who must also be aware that they can very easily ruin your recording if they talk back to you) before the show starts. Positioning your stealth mics is probably the most important aspect of stealth recording. The higher they are on your body the better. Hats and eyeglass frames are generally the best, but you must keep your head facing the stage (sound source) to avoid drop outs in the middle of a song. It's very easy to forget for a second and turn your head away! The mic is very sensitive to your breathing if positioned close to your face. Just stay relaxed and alert to everything around you. It might be necessary to shift seats with a friend to get away from loud talkers near you. Make your friends aware that you might signal them to do a quick shift with you in case this situation develops. It happens a lot! Now the biggest problem you had in your last stealth taping experience was the settings on your recording equipment getting reset during handling. I always set all the switches before entering the venue and put small pieces of electrical tape over them to prevent them from being changed when putting it in my pockets or carrying cases. I also use electrical tape to secure my external battery plugs and mic input plugs. The only adjustments you should have to make at a show are the recording levels. Make sure you are very familiar with all the buttons and knobs on your equipment (like a blind person knows where everything is by feel), so that you can make slight adjustments quickly and efficiently. You really don't want to keep fumbling around with your decks once the show is going on. The more you screw around with things, the more likely you'll screw everything up. Try to set it and forget it! Have a good time at the show and concentrate on keeping the mics aimed toward the sound source at all times. These were just a few quick pointers. Everyone should develop their own techniques that work for them best. Sometimes even when you do everything right the recording still comes out messed up. There are times when the situation is so bad (having a loud drunk next to you or in front of you, or two women who have no interest in the show and are talking constantly throughout the entire show happen to be the most common major problems) that you know your recording is going to be worthless. That's the chances we all take. If there are enough tapers at each show someone is bound to get a good recording. It's like making love with your girlfriend (or wife) in that there are millions of little sperm but only one gets to fertilize the egg. It's a numbers game we play. We all try to get a great recording, but not everyone does. Yours, Ira >>From: "Thetes" Subject: new to stealthing Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 15:58:13 +0800 I stealthed for the first time a week ago Sunday, and seem to have made every possible mistake. Half of the songs (second half of the tape) are laced with pops seemingly occurring every time I breathed! Seems the mic was pulled partially out of the jack. And all the switches on my D8 wound up being switched -- maybe during the stuffing of the thing into my pants inside my belt and tucking my shirt in around it, etc. Really broke my heart to get home and hear all the garbage on there. Is there a basic guerilla taper's faq out there that spells out good ways of harnessing stuff, along with everything else? It could save further heartbreak. ============================== From: "Thetes" Subject: Oops, one more thing Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 16:19:49 +0800 Oops, I forgot to ask: I've got twelve WAVs from the show that aren't so bad, and I Neroed them onto a CD, but the compression sounds lousy. How do you get around this?>> ------------------------------ From: "Tyler Huff" Subject: some stealth taping FAQ's i have learned ... (Re: new to stealthing) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 11:20:43 -0700 <> I too am very green when it comes to taping. i have only taped 3 shows, but each time i feel i get a little better, because, like everything in life, you learn from your mistakes. I soon found out to not trust what little information you can find on the internet. Trust what works for you. Trial and error. i don't know much, but some things i've learned: 1. 'LINE IN' ALWAYS! Never do 'Mic In'. Just don't do it! Mic in is a first timers mistake. Line in provides best results. 2. Set it, and FORGET it. Set the levels to peak where you want them (as close to 0 db as possible. it is okay to 'kiss' 0 once in a while, but if it is solidly up there for a while, the levels are too high). The point of a concert is to enjoy the show. enjoy the show first, worry about the tape last. Set your levels, hit record, throw the hold switch, and put it in your pocket and forget it. 3. Hoodie sweatshirts with the kangaroo pocket in front are good to hide equipment in during a show. easy to adjust levels discreately. cut a small hole in the inside of it, and run your wire into the deck through there. 4. Idealy, NO ONE should know you're taping. not your friends, not the people standing next to you, they all will narc you out. 5. Always bring more blank media and batteries then you think you will need. 6. a backwards mesh hat is one of the best places to put mics when you go stealth. I know that is mostly just common sense, but you learn little by little. I hoepe that helps, and happy taping. Tyler _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Oleg Grinshpan" Subject: ft: elvis costello 9-25, 9-27, 9-28, 9-29, 10-1, 10-2-02 Reply-To: "Oleg Grinshpan" Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 11:44:56 -0700 hi there. above are all at822>m1(@44.1) 9-27 suffers from chatty audience, rest excellent. dat only for now. cdrs in a few weeks. looking for more elvis, peter gabriel, tom waits & various proggy/psychedelic types. thanks. oleg. ------------------------------ From: Jason Neely Subject: RE: W2K Digital Output - Reply-To: bondibox@bellsouth.net Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 14:57:13 -0400 > >> "the best option is to get a non-Maudio card, with real drivers. > D> I think M-Audio is copping > D> out on a solution, especially since it took them a month to get back to > D> me with the root of the problem. However, it appears as if a smoothly > D> functioning software driver can also usurp control and bypass KMixer. > The link to the Microsoft site that was posted in this thread mentioned that > this kmixer.sys issue should be fixed in W2K SP3. > Is this currently possible using W2K, SP3 and the DIO 2496? If I need to use > some special settings (not just the standard driver, default install, etc), > please post so we can use the hardware and an OS that's not too outdated. When M-Audio replied to me (finally) they repeatedly stated that the problem was not fixed in SP3. They said it was fixed in XP. When I wrote back and asked about development plans to get W2K working, they replied that it was "fixed in XP". I sent them the link to the whitepages and asked it they were aware they could write a specific IOCTL into the driver - it was news to them. Right now it would take a fantastic act of technological expertise to convince me that M-Audio/Midiman isn't just a roomful of lame engineers who need my research and links to even get a clue. I plan to take this thread to laptoptapers and see what the motherboard techies have to say. However, to answer your question, I believe SONAR will send out a pure 24 bit unsampled signal. (For $450 I would expect some true engineering). But I haven't tried it, nor have I found anything cheaper. -jas ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** To unsubscribe from this digest, please send email to dat-heads-unsubscribe@datheads.phish.net If your email address has changed, you may (optionally) send the message to dat-heads-unsubscribe-oldaddress=olddomain@datheads.phish.net and the old address will be removed. 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