DAT-heads Digest #602
Contents:
co-ax/opt devices (Neil Sturtevant)
For Trade or Even B&P: David Gilmour shows ("Dark Star Enterprises")
Re: Slightly OT: MP3 editing? (Michael Edmonson)
RE: Live recording to laptop hard drives $ schoeps active mounts ("Jamie Lutch")
wtb: UA-3 or other USB based optical input ("Hevron, John-Ryan")
Re: I.S.O. Sony CDR Pens (Marc Blaker)
FS: Cleaning cartridges ("Degrado, Rob")
FS: Sony CDR-W66 (Grayson Thrush)
Some News From Sonic Sense ("Marc Nutter")
ISO: Hope Sandoval UK 2002 (Danny Thweatt)
Core Sound High End Binaural Owners in Brooklyn,NY? (Orhay@aol.com)
Re:Live recording to laptop hard drives (Keith Bode)
re: Live recording to laptop hard drives ("Marc Nutter")
Souther Culture On The Skids Taping Policy? ("Son Volt")
FT: 2 Phish taper tix - my Nassau for your Philly ("Roger Venezia")
Doc Watson policy? / bwt (Richard)
FS: Oade stealth mics + Sound Prossionals Bbox ("Zach Payne")
FS: AT8410a Shockmounts ("Nick Graham")
John Paul Jones tape (BubzDaddy@aol.com)
FS: Sony tcd-d10 Pro with 12 pin digital i/o cable and 12v battery system
Re: Live recording to laptop hard drives ("Stanley W. Smith")
From: Neil Sturtevant <neil.sturtevant@directed.com>
Subject: co-ax/opt devices
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:14:59 -0800
MCM Electronics (www.mcmelectronics.com <www.mcmelectronics.com>
<www.mcmelectronics.com <www.mcmelectronics.com> > ) has the following for
sale:
24-4435 a>d converter $35
24-4440 co-ax>opt converter $15
24-4445 opt>co-ax converter $15
24-4451 AC adapter 250mA 6V
I have used all but the A>D with no problems in a variety of settings. YMMV
Neil Sturtevant
Audio/Video Engineering Technician
Directed Electronics, Inc.
1 Viper Way
Vista, CA 92083
800-876-0800 x1242 toll free
760-599-1342 direct
760-599-3142 fax
760-599-1830 alternate fax
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From: "Dark Star Enterprises" <jtsalike@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: For Trade or Even B&P: David Gilmour shows
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:29:56 -0500
Since I am not currently busy I have these David Gilmour shows up for trade
preferably on DAT; but I can do cdr as well; I can even do a B&P for folks
on the digest:
06/08/84 UIC Pavilion - Chicago, IL All A:C A- 1 C
125
06/26/84 Kabuki Theatre; San Francisco, CA All S:R A 3 C
125
07/06/84 Lakeland Civic Center - Lakeland, FL All A:C A- AD
DAT 140
03/18/85 Stabler Arena; Allentown, PA All TLP A AD
PCM 80
WESTWOOD ONE IN CONCERT
[FROM WESTWOOD ONE TRANSCRIPTION LP's]
01/16/02 Royal Albert Hall - London, England All A:D A C
DAT 95
01/17/02 Royal Albert Hall - London, England All A:D A C
DAT 100
01/18/02 Royal Albert Hall - London, England All A:D A C
DAT 100
Thanks Gang!
John T.
From: Michael Edmonson <edmonson@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG>
Subject: Re: Slightly OT: MP3 editing?
Reply-To: edmonson@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 21:33:17 +0000
> Can anyone suggest a good software app. for editing MP3 files? I have a
> few MP3 files that have some extraneous noise that I would like to trim
> from either the beginning or the end of the sound file. Is there an app.
> that can do this easily in the MP3 format without having to first
> convert it to .wav?
There's a nice free program called "MP3 Direct Cut" that can do this:
http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~pesch/#mp3dc
-Michael
From: "Jamie Lutch" <jlutch@altairinc.com>
Subject: RE: Live recording to laptop hard drives $ schoeps active mounts
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:49:17 -0800
> So I guess my question is - for those of you
> doing this stuff, is latency a problem for you?
> Or a problem that you're aware of?
no, the only time latency is an issue is if you are trying to multitrack and
playing back a track off of the hard disk while recording.
_All_ recorders have some latency, but do you really care if right now your
machine is recording what happened a fraction of a second ago. as long as it
records correctly, it is no issue.
>
> And the second part is, I don't understand the
> desire to record direct to a laptop hard drive.
> Why do it? What do you gain, or think you're
> gaining as the case may be?
advantages:
1. my laptop is more reliable than a dat deck
2. dont have ot spend time transferring later
3. higher bitrates and samplerates are possible
===============
> From: "brian durham" <durhambrian@hotmail.com>
> Subject: iso 90 degree schoeps active mount
> Reply-To: durham_b@msn.com
> Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 16:51:55 -0500
>
> hey now,
>
> i borrowed a mount for schoeps active cables from charles fox. it looked
> just like (body-wise) the schoeps stc 110 degree active/caps
> mount, but was
> black in color. it looked unoffically made (released by someone else, or
> homemade?).
>
> charles wasn't interested in telling me where it came from...
>
> anyone make, or know where to get, these bars?
> charles has a 100 and a 90......
is it a vark bar, maybe?
personally, I've found that the homemade bar I use beats the pants off of an
ortf stc bar. It is made simply by cutting a piece of 3/4" pvc rod (I have a
ton of this around if anyone wants to send me an SASE) to the right length,
then drilling and tapping 3/8-16 althread into the end of it. Then just use
two regular SG-20 schoeps clamp mounts, can vbe adjusted to run any angle
you like (you can also use different length of rod to adjust the spacing).
Fortunately, ORTF and DIN have the same spacing, and are 110 and 90 degrees
respectively. I typically use it in one of these configurations, and tighten
it up to run the mics aimed 'just wide of the stacks' when in the back of a
large venue
>
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From: "Hevron, John-Ryan" <JohnRyan.Hevron@nick.com>
Subject: wtb: UA-3 or other USB based optical input
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:13:32 -0500
I'm looking for something to get optical output from my MD deck into my
laptop. Contact me if you've upgraded and you're looking to get rid of
yours. I'm also looking for an Audio Technica AT822 if you've got one of
those lying around that you're not using. thanks... get in touch at
thesameage@aol.com
From: Marc Blaker <marc2@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: I.S.O. Sony CDR Pens
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:22:34 -0800 (PST)
Last night I saw Memorex and Maxell 4-packs of multicolored
CD pens at Best Buy. I think they wanted $6.99.
Marc
From: "Degrado, Rob" <Rob.Degrado@T-Mobile.com>
Subject: FS: Cleaning cartridges
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:46:34 -0800
I have many of these sitting around and would like to get rid of them. I
have Sony DG5CL and HP C5709As that are sealed, never been used. I'm not
looking to get rich, just want to put them to use. $3.00 each or if you want
more than one $2.00 each. Specify which brand you want and send me an email.
From: Grayson Thrush <gsthursh@ouray.cudenver.edu>
Subject: FS: Sony CDR-W66
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:54:35 -0700 (MST)
I have two of these fine units available in perfect condition with
original boxes, remote, and accessories. Bought new about 3-4 months ago,
and both have been used sparingly. Sell for $600 each (shipping via UPS
COD insured included).
Reason for selling: Decided to put together a FATTY computer rig, and I
need the cash to fund it. My loss is your gain.
BWT: A copy of TOO 8/4/2002 to the first respondent.
From: "Marc Nutter" <nutter@sonicsense.com>
Subject: Some News From Sonic Sense
Reply-To: "Marc Nutter" <nutter@sonicsense.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:17:30 -0500
Happy New Year Everybody,
We would like to thank everyone who took the time to apply and interview
with us over the past couple months. As many of you know, we have spent a
lot of time selecting someone who could fit well in the Sonic Sense family.
Although we spoke with some really great folks, we are happy to announce
that Jason Brantley joined us officially on January 6, 2003. We hope you'll
take a minute to acquiant yourself with Jason by viewing his bio on our
website. http://www.sonicsense.com
To kick off the new year we have expanded the site to include several new
sections including:
"Downloads" --this week featuring a great New Year's Eve 2002-3 show (with
others to be announed weekly)
"Forum"--which with your participation will quickly develop into the premier
resource for the recording community.
"Web Store"--with product pictures for nearly every item.
As this is just a start, watch for continuous updates along with special
weekly announcements from Jason.
We look forward to a great year and wish the same for all of you.
Happy Recording,
Marc
Marc Nutter
Sonic Sense
2755 S. Gilpin St.
Denver, CO 80210
Phone (303) 753-0201 or Toll Free (877) 324-4463
http://www.sonicsense.com
From: DannyThweatt@webtv.net (Danny Thweatt)
Subject: ISO: Hope Sandoval UK 2002
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 18:49:34 -0600 (CST)
Subject line says it all. Hope played several overseas shows last fall.
If you, or someone you know recorded any of them please get in touch.
http://www.sanctifiedpress.com/trade.html
Thanks, Danny
From: Orhay@aol.com
Subject: Core Sound High End Binaural Owners in Brooklyn,NY?
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:58:00 EST
Hi:
I'm a Brooklyn-based bluegrass musician who records his own shows.
I own a set of the Core Sound binaurals and am considering upgrading to the
HEBs--but would love to hear them on something I play before considering
the upgrade.
Is there anyone in Brooklyn that would be willing to deomnstrate them?
Thanks.
Orrin Star
www.flatpick.com/ostar
ps i have a professional recording studio in the carrol gardens area; do a
lot of
tinkering with mic pres, etc; would be happy to show some things to
anyone
who helps me out on this.
From: Keith Bode <t.tunakebo@verizon.net>
Subject: Re:Live recording to laptop hard drives
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:46:15 -0800
Sorry I only took one paragraph of your post tto respong to, Joe, but in
answer to your question, it's done for 2 reasons I can think of. First,
it allows recording larger files. Many peple are thinking in terms of
24/96, and higher rate. I bought a DVD player, that says it can play
24/192 DVD Audio. Also, the real obvious benefit is no more DAT deck,
and no more DAT>HD transfers. There are 24 bit HD recorders around in
the local Sam Ash, Guitar center with 24/96 24 channel HD recorders.
> And the second part is, I don't understand the
> desire to record direct to a laptop hard drive.
> Why do it? What do you gain, or think you're
> gaining as the case may be?
>
From: "Marc Nutter" <nutter@sonicsense.com>
Subject: re: Live recording to laptop hard drives
Reply-To: <nutter@sonicsense.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 20:14:47 -0700
>From: Joe Rioux <jrioux@attbi.com>
>Subject: Live recording to laptop hard drives
>Reply-To: jrioux@attbi.com
>Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 16:29:15 -0500
>I did some reading recently about latency with
>regard to using a Windows-based operating system
>for audio engineering. Although it was directed
>at those doing audio editing on the PC, it would
>seem to me that latency problems would also effect
>those doing live recording to a laptop's hard
>drive, at least as far as latency problems with
>regard to hard drive operations & audio are
>concerned.
>So I guess my question is - for those of you
>doing this stuff, is latency a problem for you?
>Or a problem that you're aware of?
Hi Joe (and all),
Good question.
First, let us note that latency is the delay time incurred as a signal
is
passing through the analog-to-digital converter stage of any digital
audio device.
Latency is not a concern to anyone strictly recording all channels at
one time provided they are not among the performers and not listening
while recording.
Latency, does become a big issue when monitoring is concerned. Picture
a person playing guitar and trying to listen/monitor while recording.
If s/he is listening through the monitor loop that is after the ADC,
playback can easily be delay several milliseconds--enough to confuse the
performer and create timing problems for the performance.
In regards to a recording engineer, he can measure the delay through the
system and set subsequent delays on the incoming channels, to align the
playback with the live material being played during overdubs and similar
applications. Anyone care to give more application comments or explain
this a bit better here??
In a live sound application, latency through DSP devices (electronic
crossovers, eqs, and delays) requires the attention of the system
engineer who must properly aligning the entire system with regard to the
delay through the hardware. Failure to do this will result in
significant comb filtering--huge nulls in the frequency response.
One area that is still presenting noteworthy problems is the use of
effects processors on computers or DSP (digital signal processing)
devices. For example, taking a vocal through a reverb that has
significant latency may make it unusable because the time offset, albeit
only a few milliseconds, which would severely affect the frequency
response. By the time the sound makes it back out of the box, the
performer is ahead of the material being returned.
>And the second part is, I don't understand the
>desire to record direct to a laptop hard drive.
>Why do it? What do you gain, or think you're
>gaining as the case may be?
Lots of reasons here, including the ability to record at higher
resolution, up to 24-bit/96kHz. Another, even for those uninterested in
24-bit or 96kHz, is the simplicity of post-show editing and CD
production for trading. I'm sure others will offer further insight.
I hope this helps.
Happy Recording Everybody!!!
Marc
Marc Nutter
Sonic Sense, Inc.
(303) 753-0201 or Toll-Free (877) 324-4463
2755 S. Gilpin St.
Denver, CO 80210
http://www.sonicsense.com
nutter@sonicsense.com
From: "Son Volt" <unclewilco@hotmail.com>
Subject: Souther Culture On The Skids Taping Policy?
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:35:48 -0600
Hey All-Has anyone taped these guys recently? Are they cool with taping?
Thanks Aaron Stoker
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From: "Roger Venezia" <roger711@mindspring.com>
Subject: FT: 2 Phish taper tix - my Nassau for your Philly
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 22:48:57 -0500
I have been awarded 2 Phish taper tickets for Nassau Coliseum, Friday 2/28,
and would like to trade the pair, straight up, for a pair of taper tickets
for Philadelphia First Union Center, Tuesday 2/25. Trade only - not for
sale. Also not interested in trades for single tickets.
Thanks,
Roger
From: Richard <wehideandseek@yahoo.com>
Subject: Doc Watson policy? / bwt
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:47:31 -0800 (PST)
Namaste Y'all!
searched BTAT
know that some festivals get taped
but can't find a comprehensive YES or NO!
Can anyone please help as i take off tomorrow
afternoon to see him in Tucson.
BWT
Greg Brown
02/03/02 Silver City NM
SBD/AUD with MG 300>V2>Samsoon mpIV w/ analog sbd>m1
will take three...90m dat...letcha know if you got in
or not!
thanks in advance
richard from flagstaff
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From: "Zach Payne" <pzane@hotmail.com>
Subject: FS: Oade stealth mics + Sound Prossionals Bbox
Reply-To: "Zach Payne" <pzane@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 23:18:09 -0600
Relisting these things.. first few buyers backed out.
Brand new set of Oade stealth mics. Purchased with dat deck. Used once.
Sound Professionals premium battery box with 7 different levels of roll-off
+ internal level attenuators (sliders).
All items are perfect functionally and the only cosmetic blemishes are a few
scuffs on the bbox. The are virtually brand new.
$125 shipped takes the set. These need to go.
Zach Payne
pzane@hotmail.com
From: "Nick Graham" <nickg@mindspring.com>
Subject: FS: AT8410a Shockmounts
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 00:16:40 -0600
Just bought these (I'm the 2nd owner) and realized
my mics won't fit....
Like new condition...$75 + shipping OBO. I'd also
consider trading for a Denecke PS2 phantom box.
Thanks,
Nick
From: BubzDaddy@aol.com
Subject: John Paul Jones tape
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 02:20:05 EST
I lost his email, but he was archiving all the John Paul Jones shows from the
King Crimson tour. I owe him a tape from a trade. Anyone have his email addy?
I think he is from Maryland/DC area. I wanna come through on my end of the
trade.
Bubba
From: <cart985@bellsouth.net>
Subject: FS: Sony tcd-d10 Pro with 12 pin digital i/o cable and 12v battery system
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 2:30:15 -0500
I have for sale a sony d10 pro dat deck that's in excellent condition. The transport was rebuilt and the heads were replaced about a year ago and since then I've put no more than 40 hours on it. It comes with a 12 pin digital i/o cable so you can use an external a/d converter and give a digital patch at the same time. It also comes with a case for it, internal battery supply with wall wart, and a 12v battery system that I built and is brand new that will power it for endless hours in the field. I'm asking $750 shipped to your door for the whole package. I can take digital pictures of it if you would like to see it. Please e-mail me at carterstuart@yahoo.com if interested. I'll except money orders, paypal, or personal check. Thanks. Stuart
From: "Stanley W. Smith" <swsmith@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Live recording to laptop hard drives
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 02:23:49 -0600
Hey Now,
Latency is really only an issue when _overdubbing_ with tapeless systems.
If you have previously recorded tracks on the drive and then want to add
more
that are coincident in time, you have to take in to account the finite time
it takes
for the data to be read from the drive, processed in whatever fashion,
converted
to analog waveforms, then fed out to the monitoring system. If your
punched-in
bass note fix in the second chorus is 300-700 ms late in arriving to the
drive you
wrote over data you really wanted to keep... :| If the drum tracks are late
in arriving
to the bass players ears, then he's playing behind the tempo... Equally as
horrible... ;)
(and it's even more fun when the singer is about three notes behind... =)
Oy! )
In the real world it's no longer an real issue as ability of the gear to
deal with this has
caught up with the problem. The G4 systems we use at the studio are
smart/fast/crunchy
enough to deal with most of this, the MOTU mic pres and I/O supply a direct
output for
the monitoring and cue (headphones to the players) that isn't processed
through the A>Ds
that feed the drives, and whatever small latency is left is easily dealt
with by 'slipping' the
track in time to match what's already on the drive. (The next gen systems
are shaping up to
be even faster, which sucks for pricing but means that they'll sound even
better.)
As for basic stuff, you'll only run into latency problems when your really
crunching
some serious numbers... The 2 track stereo CD editor, or 4 track setup has
_some_
latency built in to the system (nature of the beast...) but by matching the
card to the
processor and system, eliminating all unnecessary background multitasking,
and
keeping your drives tuned up and defragmented you're dealing with 2-10ms
between
hearing a sound from the nearfields and seeing the waveform of it on the
display.
Unless you're doing some heavy multi-track editing and using tons of plugins
per channel
it's not something you'd ever notice on most Win platforms...
Part 2: What do you gain by going direct to a drive? Several things, IMO.
(I remain unconvinced
that using a laptop is the best way to go about this, but that's a different
topic altogether.)
A) Ease of editing, and time saved in loading DAT tapes to the drive.
B) Recording at greater bit resolution and faster sampling rates than are
possible with a
16bit 44.1/48 kHz DAT machine... The general idea with digital audio is that
the faster you can
sample the incoming analog waveform, and the greater the resolution you can
achieve, the closer
your sample is to the actual waveform you're trying to capture.
"The faster we go, the rounder we get..." in other words. ;)
Listening to the difference in the quality of sound between a recording at
16bit 44.1/48 kHz and one
done from the same initial source at 24 bit 96 kHz (or higher...) is like
hearing the difference between
cassette and DAT for the first time... It's like having your ears back in
the venue... =| Slightly scary...
Aren't we trying to replicate the concert experience as best as possible
given the limits of the technology?
C: They ain't building new DAT machines any more, and are getting damned
surly about repairing
old ones. Whadda' ya gonna record on in a few years? MD?!? (Maybe an Ipod
with an external
mic pre/A>D & DVD-A burner, but again that's a different topic
altogether...;) )
Stan Smith
< 0 \ \ swsmith@ix.netcom.com Stan Smith Dallas, TX 'boo-cat'
: ) "Put it down heavy, strip it down lean. Got to lay it down
< 0 / / dirty and play it back clean . . ." FOTM v.#3 - R. Hunter
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Joe Rioux <jrioux@attbi.com>
Subject: Live recording to laptop hard drives
Reply-To: jrioux@attbi.com
Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 16:29:15 -0500
I did some reading recently about latency with
regard to using a Windows-based operating system
for audio engineering. Although it was directed
at those doing audio editing on the PC, it would
seem to me that latency problems would also effect
those doing live recording to a laptop's hard
drive, at least as far as latency problems with
regard to hard drive operations & audio are
concerned.
So I guess my question is - for those of you
doing this stuff, is latency a problem for you?
Or a problem that you're aware of?
And the second part is, I don't understand the
desire to record direct to a laptop hard drive.
Why do it? What do you gain, or think you're
gaining as the case may be?
http://www.rme-audio.de/english/techinfo/lola.htm
http://www.rme-audio.de/english/techinfo/lola_lomo.htm
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