DAT-heads Digest #602, Volume #6 Thu, 9 Jan 03 03:50:01 EST Contents: co-ax/opt devices (Neil Sturtevant) For Trade or Even B&P: David Gilmour shows ("Dark Star Enterprises") Re: Slightly OT: MP3 editing? (Michael Edmonson) RE: Live recording to laptop hard drives $ schoeps active mounts ("Jamie Lutch") wtb: UA-3 or other USB based optical input ("Hevron, John-Ryan") Re: I.S.O. Sony CDR Pens (Marc Blaker) FS: Cleaning cartridges ("Degrado, Rob") FS: Sony CDR-W66 (Grayson Thrush) Some News From Sonic Sense ("Marc Nutter") ISO: Hope Sandoval UK 2002 (Danny Thweatt) Core Sound High End Binaural Owners in Brooklyn,NY? (Orhay@aol.com) Re:Live recording to laptop hard drives (Keith Bode) re: Live recording to laptop hard drives ("Marc Nutter") Souther Culture On The Skids Taping Policy? ("Son Volt") FT: 2 Phish taper tix - my Nassau for your Philly ("Roger Venezia") Doc Watson policy? / bwt (Richard) FS: Oade stealth mics + Sound Prossionals Bbox ("Zach Payne") FS: AT8410a Shockmounts ("Nick Graham") John Paul Jones tape (BubzDaddy@aol.com) FS: Sony tcd-d10 Pro with 12 pin digital i/o cable and 12v battery system Re: Live recording to laptop hard drives ("Stanley W. Smith") ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Neil Sturtevant Subject: co-ax/opt devices Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:14:59 -0800 MCM Electronics (www.mcmelectronics.com > ) has the following for sale: 24-4435 a>d converter $35 24-4440 co-ax>opt converter $15 24-4445 opt>co-ax converter $15 24-4451 AC adapter 250mA 6V I have used all but the A>D with no problems in a variety of settings. YMMV Neil Sturtevant Audio/Video Engineering Technician Directed Electronics, Inc. 1 Viper Way Vista, CA 92083 800-876-0800 x1242 toll free 760-599-1342 direct 760-599-3142 fax 760-599-1830 alternate fax This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this email are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the company. Finally, the recipient should check this email for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. ------------------------------ From: "Dark Star Enterprises" Subject: For Trade or Even B&P: David Gilmour shows Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:29:56 -0500 Since I am not currently busy I have these David Gilmour shows up for trade preferably on DAT; but I can do cdr as well; I can even do a B&P for folks on the digest: 06/08/84 UIC Pavilion - Chicago, IL All A:C A- 1 C 125 06/26/84 Kabuki Theatre; San Francisco, CA All S:R A 3 C 125 07/06/84 Lakeland Civic Center - Lakeland, FL All A:C A- AD DAT 140 03/18/85 Stabler Arena; Allentown, PA All TLP A AD PCM 80 WESTWOOD ONE IN CONCERT [FROM WESTWOOD ONE TRANSCRIPTION LP's] 01/16/02 Royal Albert Hall - London, England All A:D A C DAT 95 01/17/02 Royal Albert Hall - London, England All A:D A C DAT 100 01/18/02 Royal Albert Hall - London, England All A:D A C DAT 100 Thanks Gang! John T. ------------------------------ From: Michael Edmonson Subject: Re: Slightly OT: MP3 editing? Reply-To: edmonson@SDF.LONESTAR.ORG Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 21:33:17 +0000 > Can anyone suggest a good software app. for editing MP3 files? I have a > few MP3 files that have some extraneous noise that I would like to trim > from either the beginning or the end of the sound file. Is there an app. > that can do this easily in the MP3 format without having to first > convert it to .wav? There's a nice free program called "MP3 Direct Cut" that can do this: http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~pesch/#mp3dc -Michael ------------------------------ From: "Jamie Lutch" Subject: RE: Live recording to laptop hard drives $ schoeps active mounts Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 13:49:17 -0800 > So I guess my question is - for those of you > doing this stuff, is latency a problem for you? > Or a problem that you're aware of? no, the only time latency is an issue is if you are trying to multitrack and playing back a track off of the hard disk while recording. _All_ recorders have some latency, but do you really care if right now your machine is recording what happened a fraction of a second ago. as long as it records correctly, it is no issue. > > And the second part is, I don't understand the > desire to record direct to a laptop hard drive. > Why do it? What do you gain, or think you're > gaining as the case may be? advantages: 1. my laptop is more reliable than a dat deck 2. dont have ot spend time transferring later 3. higher bitrates and samplerates are possible =============== > From: "brian durham" > Subject: iso 90 degree schoeps active mount > Reply-To: durham_b@msn.com > Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 16:51:55 -0500 > > hey now, > > i borrowed a mount for schoeps active cables from charles fox. it looked > just like (body-wise) the schoeps stc 110 degree active/caps > mount, but was > black in color. it looked unoffically made (released by someone else, or > homemade?). > > charles wasn't interested in telling me where it came from... > > anyone make, or know where to get, these bars? > charles has a 100 and a 90...... is it a vark bar, maybe? personally, I've found that the homemade bar I use beats the pants off of an ortf stc bar. It is made simply by cutting a piece of 3/4" pvc rod (I have a ton of this around if anyone wants to send me an SASE) to the right length, then drilling and tapping 3/8-16 althread into the end of it. Then just use two regular SG-20 schoeps clamp mounts, can vbe adjusted to run any angle you like (you can also use different length of rod to adjust the spacing). Fortunately, ORTF and DIN have the same spacing, and are 110 and 90 degrees respectively. I typically use it in one of these configurations, and tighten it up to run the mics aimed 'just wide of the stacks' when in the back of a large venue > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.437 / Virus Database: 245 - Release Date: 1/6/2003 ------------------------------ From: "Hevron, John-Ryan" Subject: wtb: UA-3 or other USB based optical input Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:13:32 -0500 I'm looking for something to get optical output from my MD deck into my laptop. Contact me if you've upgraded and you're looking to get rid of yours. I'm also looking for an Audio Technica AT822 if you've got one of those lying around that you're not using. thanks... get in touch at thesameage@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Marc Blaker Subject: Re: I.S.O. Sony CDR Pens Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 17:22:34 -0800 (PST) Last night I saw Memorex and Maxell 4-packs of multicolored CD pens at Best Buy. I think they wanted $6.99. Marc ------------------------------ From: "Degrado, Rob" Subject: FS: Cleaning cartridges Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 14:46:34 -0800 I have many of these sitting around and would like to get rid of them. I have Sony DG5CL and HP C5709As that are sealed, never been used. I'm not looking to get rich, just want to put them to use. $3.00 each or if you want more than one $2.00 each. Specify which brand you want and send me an email. ------------------------------ From: Grayson Thrush Subject: FS: Sony CDR-W66 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 15:54:35 -0700 (MST) I have two of these fine units available in perfect condition with original boxes, remote, and accessories. Bought new about 3-4 months ago, and both have been used sparingly. Sell for $600 each (shipping via UPS COD insured included). Reason for selling: Decided to put together a FATTY computer rig, and I need the cash to fund it. My loss is your gain. BWT: A copy of TOO 8/4/2002 to the first respondent. ------------------------------ From: "Marc Nutter" Subject: Some News From Sonic Sense Reply-To: "Marc Nutter" Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 16:17:30 -0500 Happy New Year Everybody, We would like to thank everyone who took the time to apply and interview with us over the past couple months. As many of you know, we have spent a lot of time selecting someone who could fit well in the Sonic Sense family. Although we spoke with some really great folks, we are happy to announce that Jason Brantley joined us officially on January 6, 2003. We hope you'll take a minute to acquiant yourself with Jason by viewing his bio on our website. http://www.sonicsense.com To kick off the new year we have expanded the site to include several new sections including: "Downloads" --this week featuring a great New Year's Eve 2002-3 show (with others to be announed weekly) "Forum"--which with your participation will quickly develop into the premier resource for the recording community. "Web Store"--with product pictures for nearly every item. As this is just a start, watch for continuous updates along with special weekly announcements from Jason. We look forward to a great year and wish the same for all of you. Happy Recording, Marc Marc Nutter Sonic Sense 2755 S. Gilpin St. Denver, CO 80210 Phone (303) 753-0201 or Toll Free (877) 324-4463 http://www.sonicsense.com ------------------------------ From: DannyThweatt@webtv.net (Danny Thweatt) Subject: ISO: Hope Sandoval UK 2002 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 18:49:34 -0600 (CST) Subject line says it all. Hope played several overseas shows last fall. If you, or someone you know recorded any of them please get in touch. http://www.sanctifiedpress.com/trade.html Thanks, Danny ------------------------------ From: Orhay@aol.com Subject: Core Sound High End Binaural Owners in Brooklyn,NY? Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:58:00 EST Hi: I'm a Brooklyn-based bluegrass musician who records his own shows. I own a set of the Core Sound binaurals and am considering upgrading to the HEBs--but would love to hear them on something I play before considering the upgrade. Is there anyone in Brooklyn that would be willing to deomnstrate them? Thanks. Orrin Star www.flatpick.com/ostar ps i have a professional recording studio in the carrol gardens area; do a lot of tinkering with mic pres, etc; would be happy to show some things to anyone who helps me out on this. ------------------------------ From: Keith Bode Subject: Re:Live recording to laptop hard drives Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 17:46:15 -0800 Sorry I only took one paragraph of your post tto respong to, Joe, but in answer to your question, it's done for 2 reasons I can think of. First, it allows recording larger files. Many peple are thinking in terms of 24/96, and higher rate. I bought a DVD player, that says it can play 24/192 DVD Audio. Also, the real obvious benefit is no more DAT deck, and no more DAT>HD transfers. There are 24 bit HD recorders around in the local Sam Ash, Guitar center with 24/96 24 channel HD recorders. > And the second part is, I don't understand the > desire to record direct to a laptop hard drive. > Why do it? What do you gain, or think you're > gaining as the case may be? > ------------------------------ From: "Marc Nutter" Subject: re: Live recording to laptop hard drives Reply-To: Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 20:14:47 -0700 >From: Joe Rioux >Subject: Live recording to laptop hard drives >Reply-To: jrioux@attbi.com >Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 16:29:15 -0500 >I did some reading recently about latency with >regard to using a Windows-based operating system >for audio engineering. Although it was directed >at those doing audio editing on the PC, it would >seem to me that latency problems would also effect >those doing live recording to a laptop's hard >drive, at least as far as latency problems with >regard to hard drive operations & audio are >concerned. >So I guess my question is - for those of you >doing this stuff, is latency a problem for you? >Or a problem that you're aware of? Hi Joe (and all), Good question. First, let us note that latency is the delay time incurred as a signal is passing through the analog-to-digital converter stage of any digital audio device. Latency is not a concern to anyone strictly recording all channels at one time provided they are not among the performers and not listening while recording. Latency, does become a big issue when monitoring is concerned. Picture a person playing guitar and trying to listen/monitor while recording. If s/he is listening through the monitor loop that is after the ADC, playback can easily be delay several milliseconds--enough to confuse the performer and create timing problems for the performance. In regards to a recording engineer, he can measure the delay through the system and set subsequent delays on the incoming channels, to align the playback with the live material being played during overdubs and similar applications. Anyone care to give more application comments or explain this a bit better here?? In a live sound application, latency through DSP devices (electronic crossovers, eqs, and delays) requires the attention of the system engineer who must properly aligning the entire system with regard to the delay through the hardware. Failure to do this will result in significant comb filtering--huge nulls in the frequency response. One area that is still presenting noteworthy problems is the use of effects processors on computers or DSP (digital signal processing) devices. For example, taking a vocal through a reverb that has significant latency may make it unusable because the time offset, albeit only a few milliseconds, which would severely affect the frequency response. By the time the sound makes it back out of the box, the performer is ahead of the material being returned. >And the second part is, I don't understand the >desire to record direct to a laptop hard drive. >Why do it? What do you gain, or think you're >gaining as the case may be? Lots of reasons here, including the ability to record at higher resolution, up to 24-bit/96kHz. Another, even for those uninterested in 24-bit or 96kHz, is the simplicity of post-show editing and CD production for trading. I'm sure others will offer further insight. I hope this helps. Happy Recording Everybody!!! Marc Marc Nutter Sonic Sense, Inc. (303) 753-0201 or Toll-Free (877) 324-4463 2755 S. Gilpin St. Denver, CO 80210 http://www.sonicsense.com nutter@sonicsense.com ------------------------------ From: "Son Volt" Subject: Souther Culture On The Skids Taping Policy? Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2003 21:35:48 -0600 Hey All-Has anyone taped these guys recently? Are they cool with taping? Thanks Aaron Stoker _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ From: "Roger Venezia" Subject: FT: 2 Phish taper tix - my Nassau for your Philly Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 22:48:57 -0500 I have been awarded 2 Phish taper tickets for Nassau Coliseum, Friday 2/28, and would like to trade the pair, straight up, for a pair of taper tickets for Philadelphia First Union Center, Tuesday 2/25. Trade only - not for sale. Also not interested in trades for single tickets. Thanks, Roger ------------------------------ From: Richard Subject: Doc Watson policy? / bwt Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 19:47:31 -0800 (PST) Namaste Y'all! searched BTAT know that some festivals get taped but can't find a comprehensive YES or NO! Can anyone please help as i take off tomorrow afternoon to see him in Tucson. BWT Greg Brown 02/03/02 Silver City NM SBD/AUD with MG 300>V2>Samsoon mpIV w/ analog sbd>m1 will take three...90m dat...letcha know if you got in or not! thanks in advance richard from flagstaff __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Zach Payne" Subject: FS: Oade stealth mics + Sound Prossionals Bbox Reply-To: "Zach Payne" Date: Wed, 8 Jan 2003 23:18:09 -0600 Relisting these things.. first few buyers backed out. Brand new set of Oade stealth mics. Purchased with dat deck. Used once. Sound Professionals premium battery box with 7 different levels of roll-off + internal level attenuators (sliders). All items are perfect functionally and the only cosmetic blemishes are a few scuffs on the bbox. The are virtually brand new. $125 shipped takes the set. These need to go. Zach Payne pzane@hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "Nick Graham" Subject: FS: AT8410a Shockmounts Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 00:16:40 -0600 Just bought these (I'm the 2nd owner) and realized my mics won't fit.... Like new condition...$75 + shipping OBO. I'd also consider trading for a Denecke PS2 phantom box. Thanks, Nick ------------------------------ From: BubzDaddy@aol.com Subject: John Paul Jones tape Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 02:20:05 EST I lost his email, but he was archiving all the John Paul Jones shows from the King Crimson tour. I owe him a tape from a trade. Anyone have his email addy? I think he is from Maryland/DC area. I wanna come through on my end of the trade. Bubba ------------------------------ From: Subject: FS: Sony tcd-d10 Pro with 12 pin digital i/o cable and 12v battery system Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 2:30:15 -0500 I have for sale a sony d10 pro dat deck that's in excellent condition. The transport was rebuilt and the heads were replaced about a year ago and since then I've put no more than 40 hours on it. It comes with a 12 pin digital i/o cable so you can use an external a/d converter and give a digital patch at the same time. It also comes with a case for it, internal battery supply with wall wart, and a 12v battery system that I built and is brand new that will power it for endless hours in the field. I'm asking $750 shipped to your door for the whole package. I can take digital pictures of it if you would like to see it. Please e-mail me at carterstuart@yahoo.com if interested. I'll except money orders, paypal, or personal check. Thanks. Stuart ------------------------------ From: "Stanley W. Smith" Subject: Re: Live recording to laptop hard drives Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 02:23:49 -0600 Hey Now, Latency is really only an issue when _overdubbing_ with tapeless systems. If you have previously recorded tracks on the drive and then want to add more that are coincident in time, you have to take in to account the finite time it takes for the data to be read from the drive, processed in whatever fashion, converted to analog waveforms, then fed out to the monitoring system. If your punched-in bass note fix in the second chorus is 300-700 ms late in arriving to the drive you wrote over data you really wanted to keep... :| If the drum tracks are late in arriving to the bass players ears, then he's playing behind the tempo... Equally as horrible... ;) (and it's even more fun when the singer is about three notes behind... =) Oy! ) In the real world it's no longer an real issue as ability of the gear to deal with this has caught up with the problem. The G4 systems we use at the studio are smart/fast/crunchy enough to deal with most of this, the MOTU mic pres and I/O supply a direct output for the monitoring and cue (headphones to the players) that isn't processed through the A>Ds that feed the drives, and whatever small latency is left is easily dealt with by 'slipping' the track in time to match what's already on the drive. (The next gen systems are shaping up to be even faster, which sucks for pricing but means that they'll sound even better.) As for basic stuff, you'll only run into latency problems when your really crunching some serious numbers... The 2 track stereo CD editor, or 4 track setup has _some_ latency built in to the system (nature of the beast...) but by matching the card to the processor and system, eliminating all unnecessary background multitasking, and keeping your drives tuned up and defragmented you're dealing with 2-10ms between hearing a sound from the nearfields and seeing the waveform of it on the display. Unless you're doing some heavy multi-track editing and using tons of plugins per channel it's not something you'd ever notice on most Win platforms... Part 2: What do you gain by going direct to a drive? Several things, IMO. (I remain unconvinced that using a laptop is the best way to go about this, but that's a different topic altogether.) A) Ease of editing, and time saved in loading DAT tapes to the drive. B) Recording at greater bit resolution and faster sampling rates than are possible with a 16bit 44.1/48 kHz DAT machine... The general idea with digital audio is that the faster you can sample the incoming analog waveform, and the greater the resolution you can achieve, the closer your sample is to the actual waveform you're trying to capture. "The faster we go, the rounder we get..." in other words. ;) Listening to the difference in the quality of sound between a recording at 16bit 44.1/48 kHz and one done from the same initial source at 24 bit 96 kHz (or higher...) is like hearing the difference between cassette and DAT for the first time... It's like having your ears back in the venue... =| Slightly scary... Aren't we trying to replicate the concert experience as best as possible given the limits of the technology? C: They ain't building new DAT machines any more, and are getting damned surly about repairing old ones. Whadda' ya gonna record on in a few years? MD?!? (Maybe an Ipod with an external mic pre/A>D & DVD-A burner, but again that's a different topic altogether...;) ) Stan Smith < 0 \ \ swsmith@ix.netcom.com Stan Smith Dallas, TX 'boo-cat' : ) "Put it down heavy, strip it down lean. Got to lay it down < 0 / / dirty and play it back clean . . ." FOTM v.#3 - R. Hunter ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From: Joe Rioux Subject: Live recording to laptop hard drives Reply-To: jrioux@attbi.com Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 16:29:15 -0500 I did some reading recently about latency with regard to using a Windows-based operating system for audio engineering. Although it was directed at those doing audio editing on the PC, it would seem to me that latency problems would also effect those doing live recording to a laptop's hard drive, at least as far as latency problems with regard to hard drive operations & audio are concerned. So I guess my question is - for those of you doing this stuff, is latency a problem for you? Or a problem that you're aware of? And the second part is, I don't understand the desire to record direct to a laptop hard drive. Why do it? What do you gain, or think you're gaining as the case may be? http://www.rme-audio.de/english/techinfo/lola.htm http://www.rme-audio.de/english/techinfo/lola_lomo.htm ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** To unsubscribe from this digest, please send email to dat-heads-unsubscribe@datheads.phish.net If your email address has changed, you may (optionally) send the message to dat-heads-unsubscribe-oldaddress=olddomain@datheads.phish.net and the old address will be removed. 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