DAT-heads Digest #747, Volume #6 Fri, 23 May 03 17:50:01 EDT Contents: re: Pearl Jam info ("Mark McKay") Pearl Jam taping policy ("Gordon Laslow") Re: DAT-heads Digest #746- re: velcro! (acffh) Re: cdr mastering ("Wayne D. Hoxsie Jr.") Re: pearl jam info (Chris Hickman) ISO: Sonosax SX-M2 preamp (Dirk Stelzer) Re: What's Normal? (Rockcat) Normalizing a Signal (Ken Loge) Re: Newbie soundboard > d8 Questions (Brandon) elliott smith (richard turnure) security at RFK stadium, near DC.... ("john e. bogus") RE: Question for Schoeps STC(ortf) bar users ("Jamie Lutch") Anyone need a "Reutelhuber" style box for discrete recording adventures? ("Alex Coluzzi") SEARCHING FOR JAZZFEST STUFF.... (Dgowc1st@aol.com) FS: 2 Bonnaroo tickets ("Joe Sweetser") fs apogee ad 1000 ("Greg Lance") ISO:I mother Earth tapes ("Steve Mew") Zefiro ZA2 cheap ("rush Trader") ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mark McKay" Subject: re: Pearl Jam info Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 05:41:40 -0400 >also-- it was reported in a local entertainment magazine , that they were >going to allow sbd access for fans. i have a chance to buy a seat right >next to the mix position at alpine valley,,,,, and was kinda thinkin about >trying it.... and standing there with a sheepish grin, and an xlr patch cord Highly doubtful, as the band is releasing their own series of "bootlegs" again...sbds of every show they do. According to the letter the sent out for fan club tix "small handheld recorders will not be confiscated" and "disposable cameras with no flash will be allowed in the venue". Mark ------------------------------ From: "Gordon Laslow" Subject: Pearl Jam taping policy Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 10:21:51 +0000 Here is the official PJ taping policy: http://www.sonymusic.com/artists/PearlJam/tour/taping.html And, after reading it, it seems the only way to tape the band legit and get a stereo digital recording is to use the Sony MiniDisc model Business Recorder MZ-B100 because Pearl Jam does not allow DAT, or external microphones. I haven't taped the last 3 PJ shows I went to (2000-2003) just because you can buy soundboard CD's of the shows for $15 each, and it's worth it to me so I can be sloppy and do things like go pee when I want and not have to yell at drunk asses. But....I think the policy is a bit out of date or unreasonable. I sent off an email to the rumor pit folks ( OfTheSea@aol.com or DigitalKat@aol.com ) asking that they mention to someone to revamp their current Taping/Camera policy to include the 21st century. I think with PJ selling official concert recordings for $15, they don't have to worry about overpriced CD bootlegs appearing in stores anytime soon because of the occasional DAT recording being traded. ~jay _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ From: acffh Subject: Re: DAT-heads Digest #746- re: velcro! Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 06:35:10 -0500 Cringe? Hardly! The only drawback to velcro is that RIPPING sound when you have to separate it. Don't do THAT in the middle of a quiet taping section. . . But since you mention it, be sure to use the EXTRA STRENGTH VELCRO. It comes in packs of 4" strips. I got a pack at my large local chain drugstore. Following instructions, apply to a clean surface, and let it set for 24 hours before putting any weight on it. (Neck strap, huh??? Hmmm) I suggest placing the "Hook" side of the velcro on the bit mapper's bottom, and the tape deck's bottom, and the "Loop" side on the top of the mapper. This way they will stick together, and the bottom of the mapper will stick to carpeting or the inside of a backpack and not tend to flop around inside your taping bag so much. A few of us even built thin plywood frames for our taping rigs, and put the Velcro "loops" on our frames, so we could stick our mapper-deck combos to a little "shelf" in an oversized waist bag. This has the effect of aiming the deck's backlit level meters at the eyeballs of the recordist, which is a nice move. Sony put the meter on the big flat side of the d8 and d100, not the thin edge, so you have to look at the flat side to see your levels. . . may as well have them aimed at your face. I also Velcro'd the bottom of my preamp (Beyer MV100) with the HOOK side, now it sticks to loops on it's mounting board when I need it to. -tom ps- and the scott eVest looks pretty cool, but does it really have enough room for a preamp and bit mapper, or just a deck? From: randy@monkeybiz.Stanford.EDU Subject: re: velcro! Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 23:27:34 -0700 (PDT) > Some people will probably cringe at this, but I covered the entire >bottom of my M1 and the top of my MP2 with Velcro, and I stick them >together and carry them on a neck strap. that's a pretty creative solution! i've always used a fanny pack, myself, though i've been tempted to buy an eVest...anyone care to offer comments on those? -rand0m -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ From: "Wayne D. Hoxsie Jr." Subject: Re: cdr mastering Reply-To: wayne@hoxnet.com Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 08:52:03 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 22 May 2003 randy@monkeybiz.Stanford.EDU wrote: > no argument from me about normalizing (go for it! but don't overdo it with > the compression, of course). > > but i respectfully disagree with wayne about fading cds. > i find it a real buzz-kill to have them cut at the end. > it's not like it takes *that* much more time to add overlapping > fade-in and fade-out tracks to a cd, so that > (1) you can patch things together seamlessly by omitting the overlap tracks > (2) you can listen and not be jarred by the sudden stop/start of music > that doesn't fade out/in .... That I woudn't be opposed to. I just feel that I'm getting ripped-off if I trade for music that isn't all there. By fading out a section that was not faded on the master, you are permanently degrading all future copies made from that lineage. In the future when DVD audio becomes the norm, then this will be as much an issue to DVD traders as it is to me (I shy away from non-dat trades these days for that very reason). > > ...and i'm really surprised to hear that anyone would go to the trouble > of moving cdr material onto dat, given the fragility of that medium. Frankly, I don't have a CD player except in my vehicles (and even then, I find that I play my M1 through the line-in jack of my CD player a lot). I use my DAT player in my home system as most would use a CD player. I disagree that it is a fragile medium too. If you keep your equipment properly maintained, there is no appreciable degrigation to the media nor to the equipment. Some of my favorites have been played dozens or possibly hundreds of times and are still error free. I have CD-R's that have never been played, and have been stored cleanly, yet show signs of degrigation when extracting for trades. I think that as time goes on, people are going to realize that those 10 cent CD-R's they though were such a great deal are going to be anything but. There's now even a bacterial threat to CD's. We'll have to wait and see how DVD[-,+,R,RW,whatever] holds up, but for my money, DAT is currently the best medium for my masters. YMMV. > > -rand0m > -- Wayne D. Hoxsie Jr. wayne@hoxnet.com http://www.hoxnet.com PGP Key ID 138BCEE1 ------------------------------ From: Chris Hickman Subject: Re: pearl jam info Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:53:21 -0500 Definitely not, especially considering that they professionally mix and master every one of their tour shows for sale at the price of $14.95 for most people, $12.95 for tenclub members ( www.pearljambootlegs.com )...why would they want everybody and their brother plugging into the soundboard? Chris > From: "taperroy" > Subject: pearl jam info > Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 12:37:45 -0500 > > how has taping been going for these guys?? i know their stance regarding > "external mics, pre-amps,and dat decks" just wondering if they have loosened > their stance at all..... > also-- it was reported in a local entertainment magazine , that they were > going to allow sbd access for fans. i have a chance to buy a seat right > next to the mix position at alpine valley,,,,, and was kinda thinkin about > trying it.... and standing there with a sheepish grin, and an xlr patch cord > .... > > any info gratefully appreciated > taperroy ------------------------------ From: 520078325885-0001@t-online.de (Dirk Stelzer) Subject: ISO: Sonosax SX-M2 preamp Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 17:00:37 +0200 First of all a big thank you to everybody who replied to my last post regarding the choice of preamp for my rig. Having taken all your info and advice into consideration i have decided to invest in an even better preamp than the MP2 and MV-100: the Sonosax SX-M2. The size of all three units is comparable especially the length but i like the fact that the Sonosax is smaller in width and height. Granted the MV-100 has a plastic chassis which makes it easier to get through metal detector wands but most of the times you're only being patted down at shows in Germany so this point can be neglected. The biggest disadvantage of the Beyer is the minimum of 20db gain which is too much for my DPA 4061 since they send a hot signal. As for the MP2 i only heard positive comments so far with one exception: in a real stealth situation the convenience factor seems to be the weak point. the Sonosax seems to have all i need for my rig, 0-76db gain, the cinch line out is on the same side as the mic ins, it's a small unit, has a LC filter and sound quality is at least as good as for MP2 and MV-100. How much is the dynamic range with the Sonosax? So if any of you have a Sonosax SX-M2 with manual they want to get rid of make me a reasonable offer. Thanks Dirk ------------------------------ From: Rockcat Subject: Re: What's Normal? Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 12:17:23 -0400 > But give two people the same recording equipment and they are likely > to make recordings that are different in fundamental ways, even from > the same source. The source recording is not the finished product > and it isn't meant to be the finished product. The finished product > is what matters. Recorded sound, like a photograph is based on an > idea and is a sort of idealized reality... a reality that is meant > to appeal as much to your mind's ear as it is to your ear. I don't disagree with this statement. However, with regards to normalization, compression, equalization, etc., I feel that most people on this list want to make these choices themselves and not have them made for them, not even by the person who made the master recording. That's why this is DAT-Heads and not CDR-Heads. Most of us want clones of the raw unadulterated master recordings, so that we can then "apply parsley, sage, rosemary or thyme, and season to our own personal tastes." rockcat ------------------------------ From: Ken Loge Subject: Normalizing a Signal Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:45:47 -0700 I used to normalize my recordings right up to 0 dB. Now I leave a little headroom and normalize only up to -0.2 dB for mastering processes, etc. that may need to be done later. I also often use a "look ahead" peak limiter with the Alesis Masterlink and/or the Waves mastering tools with my DAT recordings, but of course it depends on the type of recording. Peak limiting is great for voiceover or vocal recordings where there may be a lot of noticeable amplitude inconsistencies, but for field and nature recording it can make the noise floor too audible. I would certainly rather have the problem of needing to boost the overall amplitude of a recording that have + 0 dB clips! - Ken Ken Loge http://www.ori.org/~kenl ------------------------------ From: Brandon Subject: Re: Newbie soundboard > d8 Questions Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 13:47:49 -0400 > From: "Karl Schneider" > Subject: Newbie soundboard > d8 Questions > Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 16:24:54 -0500 > > I just received my first dat (tcd-d8) and am planning on taping a show > early next month. This band is very taper friendly, enough to grant > soundboard patches. Last time I taped them, I used my minidisc, which > experienced a large brickwalling problem. My questions is what should I > do to ensure my D8 doesn't have this problem with the line being too > hot. I have read some D8 pre-amp discussion, most referring to > microphones. Any suggestions concerning pre-amps or input modifications > or settings, to ensure this isn't a problem, would be appreciated. > > Karl I have a D8 and I was asking some friends about this recently because I had the opportunity to get a soundboard patch and I wanted to make sure the tape turned out. Most people I spoke to said that plugging directly into my line in would be fine, and that the board feed probably wouldn't be hot enough to exceed 0db or brickwall once I had my levels set on the recorder. Unfortunately this was not the case. While I had my levels set so that the feed didn't exceed 0db, there is quite a lot of crackling at various points through the tape, especially on snare drum and vocals. If I remember correctly, I had the record level set around 2.5 or 3, which on a D8 is supposedly not a favorable setting. Therefore, from my experience, I'd suggest using a -20db attenuator cable. That way you'll be able to turn your level up higher on the recording and hopefully not suffer any weird crackling or disturbances. That would be my assumption, at least. Correct me if I'm wrong. -Brandon ------------------------------ From: richard turnure Subject: elliott smith Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 11:36:25 -0700 (PDT) does anyone know elliott smith's position on taping? or security at maxwell's in hoboken and northsix in brooklyn? thnx, r ------------------------------ From: "john e. bogus" Subject: security at RFK stadium, near DC.... Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 14:42:30 -0400 Does anyone know what security procedures are at RFK stadium near DC? I plan to tape a show there tomorrow (Saturday), and need to know asap if there is a door search.....how stealth do I need to be at the door? Anyone know? If I can get a good, detailed description of what happens at the door, that would be MUCH appreciated..... TIA, john e. bogus ------------------------------ From: "Jamie Lutch" Subject: RE: Question for Schoeps STC(ortf) bar users Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 13:07:25 -0700 Its pretty easy to make an superior ortf bar from the schoeps SG20 swivel clips, and a short piece of 3/4" pvc rod (I have 8' of this, and can send you a piece b&p style) if you need it. What you need to do is tap the ends of this bar and screw in two short 3/8" studs. Then the sg20s screw right on the sides, and it is suspended the same way as an ortf bar ina schoeps shoch mount. These should fit neumann ak40/50 caps as well. I've been using this setup for awhile. The caps are spaced at 17cm, and I can adjust the angle , and run din (90) ortf(110), or even more narrow patterns for hypers at the back of an arena, etc. less than half the price of an ortf bar and far more useful. note that due to spacing issues you cant use full bodies with ortf, only actives, but you probably knew that ------------------------------ From: "Alex Coluzzi" Subject: Anyone need a "Reutelhuber" style box for discrete recording adventures? Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 13:22:41 -0700 For use with Schoeps MK capsules. Custom length active cables included. Drop me a line and we'll talk more, alex@kabella.org ------------------------------ From: Dgowc1st@aol.com Subject: SEARCHING FOR JAZZFEST STUFF.... Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 16:30:04 -0400 in particular, i just read a review of the les clypool and buckethead show, Colonel Claypool's Bucket of Bernie Brains. http://www.jambase.com/headsup.asp?storyID=3786 it simply sounds insane. i would LOVE to hear it; if your up for it, please drop me a line. dat, cdr, even lowly cassette if you wanna tease me, but anything would be great. please hook me if you can. thanks in advance mike ahern ------------------------------ From: "Joe Sweetser" Subject: FS: 2 Bonnaroo tickets Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 14:44:26 -0600 Got a friend who can't go and is looking to unload 2 tickets. He told = me $300 for the pair...which I think is below face. If interested, please email me (sweets@rootgroup.com) and I'll give you more info (ie - his = phone #). BWT: Trey, Asheville, Halloween 2002 Oktava MC012 (Hyper) > PS-2 > = AD-20 > DAP1 B&P only for DAT (1 90m, 1 60m), B&P or trade for CD (3 CDs). For = this, please email me at sweetser@greenspeedisp.net ------------------------------ From: "Greg Lance" Subject: fs apogee ad 1000 Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 13:49:40 -0700 For Sale Apogee AD 1000, sn#234, Revision C Unit has had the word clock replaced, Comes with 15 pin breakout cable that has 2 spdif outs, 2 12v eco batteries and eco 12v charger. No scrathes or blemishes of any kind. $700........buyer pays shipping. Thanks, Greg gotfob@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ From: "Steve Mew" Subject: ISO:I mother Earth tapes Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 14:11:42 -0700 Looking for Edwin-era I mother Earth tapes. And only if you have source/mic/deck info and can verify digital lineage. have lots of like artists and suprisingly a post ime edwin-solo show. http://members.tripod.com/New_Jack/list.txt _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ From: "rush Trader" Subject: Zefiro ZA2 cheap Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 17:45:05 -0400 Zefiro ZA-2 with the XLR/RCA cable http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2731994511 No minimum. No reserve. It's a great card but I no use for it any more. RT _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** To unsubscribe from this digest, please send email to dat-heads-unsubscribe@datheads.phish.net If your email address has changed, you may (optionally) send the message to dat-heads-unsubscribe-oldaddress=olddomain@datheads.phish.net and the old address will be removed. Problems or questions about a subscription should be addressed via these avenues and then if needed to dat-heads-owner@datheads.phish.net or postmaster@datheads.phish.net never the list itself You can submit a message for inclusion in the next digest via this address: Internet: dat-heads@datheads.phish.net Archives of DAT-Heads digests and related files are available on the DAT-Heads home page: http://www.solorb.com/dat-heads/ End of DAT-Heads Digest ******************************