DAT-heads Digest #810, Volume #6 Thu, 24 Jul 03 04:50:01 EDT Contents: Clearing up the Big Brother confusion (Smashmark@aol.com) Digital invincible? Dye quality does matter... all CDR's are not equal! (Owen O'Neill) Re: Taping Bob Dylan! (ISTEIN2@aol.com) Digital is not invincible PART IV (Keith Bode) FS: Tascam DA20 (Joshua) Re: [BUDD] Big brother IS watching... ("Larry Slavens") FS: Phish Taper ticket 7/25 Charlotte ("Matt Rogers") FS: Denecke AD-20 preamp ("Matt Rogers") FT: Charlotte Taper for Taper in Raleigh or Atl- PHISH ("Rory Heller") Re: Digital invincible? Dye quality does matter... all CDR's are not equal! (Seth Breidbart) Re: Digital is not invincible PART IV (Seth Breidbart) FS: MG mics, V2, MMe, DA-P1, and accessories (Robert Kane) Re: Big Brother? ("Gary Davis") Security at Venues ("Gary Davis") ISO post-production tips (Randy Vogel) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Smashmark@aol.com Subject: Clearing up the Big Brother confusion Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:20:46 -0400 > >Album Gov't Mule: The Tabernacle - Atlanta, GA 11-15-02 >Composition: Drivin' Rain (Bug Music), No Need To Suffer (Bug Music), If >I Had Possession Over Judgement Day (Music & Media Intl), Thorazine Shuffle >(Bug Music), Bad Little Doggie (Bug Music) > Ive been reading these Big Brother posts and before it gets more and more confused, I wanted to clear it up a bit. It appears the publishers are attempting to collect mechanical royalties here. Ill try to explain this as simply as i can, but if anyone wants more details, just e-me. When a songwriter writes a song, he is entitled to royalties for 1) the public performance of that song and 2) the mechanical use of the song. Public performance is covered by a blanket license that any place that plays music must have -- venues, bars, stores, etc. ASCAP and BMI collect the public performance royalties and distribute it to the songwriter. Mechanical royalties come from the record company and by law every record company AFFIXING music to any format must pay the songwriter a mechanical royalty for that song. Its a stautory rate and its about 7 cents per song these days. The obligation comes in when the song is affixed, not sold -- so record companies must pay the mechanicals even if they arent selling the record, e.g., free goods, etc. In this case, the publishers of these songs, i.e., the representatives of Bug Music, etc., are attemtping to prevent the distribution of these songs on CD, even tho they arent for sale. The other thing you have to realize is, the bands involved likely have no knowledge of this. When a songwriter has songs appearing on records being sold, they sign a publishing deal with a publisher to collect the mechnicals for them -- the publisher keeps a cut and the rest goes to the artist. So basically, this is a publisher representative attempting to reach beyond the record companies and prevent distribution of songs that they represent. There's no precedent, and ultimately im sure the band would defend the trading of these songs on burned CDs, but the publisher reps that emailed you have no idea. My advice is refer the person you contacted to the songwriters for WSP and Mule. >Album Widespread Panic: Alltel Pavilion - Raleigh 4-20-02 >Composition: Surprise Valley (Bug Music), This Part Of Town (Bug Music), >One Arm Steve (Bug Music), Ride Me High (Audigram Music), Thought Sausage >(Bug Music) ------------------------------ From: Owen O'Neill Subject: Digital invincible? Dye quality does matter... all CDR's are not equal! Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:40:55 -0700 (PDT) The obvious points have already been raised about the need to burn at a slow rate and if extracting wav's from the .cdda files on a CD or CDR, it's crucial to use EAC with error correction enable and opt to let it run at whatever speed it needs to to do proper extraction. It's better still to just trade and burn directly from .shn when possible but no one has mentioned disc image. If you're copying an audio CD or CDR direct to make another audio disc, just make a disc image first and burn from the disc image. I've done this countless tiems and never encountered any artifacts. What hasn't been mentioned is the importance of using a CDR that uses the right kind of dye. Mitsui, Kodak Gold (at least some of the Kodak Gold) and Taiyo Yuden among others, all use a dye that has been tested in accelerated aging tests and proven to successfully withstand the heat and light of these tests without producing any degradation that might compromise the audio data on the disc. There are lots and lots fo cheap CDR's on the market that are untested, unproven and may be unsuitable for burning discs that you intend to keep and play long term. Do your research and draw your own conclusions. Some folks are skeptical about these so-called accelerated aging tests but I have personally owned some cheapo CDR's (with a blue or green rather than gold dye) that just crapped out and wouldn't play correctly after 6 or 8 months of regular use. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: ISTEIN2@aol.com Subject: Re: Taping Bob Dylan! Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 14:04:49 -0400 Pj5Pa2F5IGd1eXMsIGV2ZXJ5b25lIGdvdCB0aGF0PyAgTm8gdGFwaW5nIEJvYiBEeWxhbiBj dXoKc2VjdXJpdHkgd2lsbCBiZSB3YXRjaGluZyB5b3UhPj4KCgpQZXJzb25hbGx5LCBJIHJl YWxseSBkb24ndCB0aGluayBCb2IgRHlsYW4gaXMgZXZlciB3b3J0aCB0YXBpbmcuICBJJ3Zl IGJlZW4gdG8gcGxlbnR5IG9mIGhpcyBzaG93cyBhbmQgdGFwZWQgaGltIHBsZW50eSBvZiB0 aW1lcyBpbiB0aGUgcGFzdCB0d28gZGVjYWRlcy4gIFRoZXJlIHdhcyBhIHRpbWUgd2hlbiBo ZSBwbGF5ZWQgd2l0aCB0aGUgRGVhZCAoYW5kL29yIG9wZW5lZCBmb3IgdGhlIERlYWQpLCBo ZSBuZXZlciBoYWQgYSBwcm9ibGVtIHdpdGggdXMgdGFwZXJzLiAgSSBuZXZlciBmb3VuZCBh bnkgb2YgdGhvc2UgcmVjb3JkaW5ncyB0byBiZSBlbmpveWFibGUgdG8gbGlzdGVuIHRvLiAg RWl0aGVyIGhpcyByb2NrIGJhbmQgd2FzIHRvbyBsb3VkIGFuZCBoaXMgdm9jYWxzIHdlcmUg dG9vIGxvdywgb3IgdGhlIHNvdW5kIGp1c3Qgc3Vja2VkIGluIGdlbmVyYWwhICBIZSdzIGJl ZW4gZG9pbmcgdGhlIHNhbWUgc3R1ZmYgZm9yIHllYXJzIGFuZCB0aGlua3Mgc29tZW9uZSB3 aWxsIG1ha2UgbW9uZXkgb2ZmIGhpcyByZWNvcmRpbmdzIGluIHNvbWUgd2F5LiAgTWF5YmUg aGUgdGhpbmtzIGl0IHdpbGwgaHVydCBoaXMgcmVjb3JkaW5nIHNhbGVzLiAgT3IsIG1vc3Qg cHJvYmFibHksIGhlIGp1c3QgdGhpbmtzIGhlJ3MgdG9vIGRhbW4gZ3JlYXQgYSBwZXJmb3Jt ZXIsIGFuZCB3ZSB0YXBlcnMgYXJlIG5vdGhpbmcgYnV0IGxlYWNoZXMgYW5kIHBpZWNlcyBv ZiBzaGl0LiAgSW4gYW55IGNhc2UsIEkgd291bGRuJ3QgZXZlbiBnaXZlIGhpbSB0aGUgY29u c2lkZXJhdGlvbiB0byBsaXN0ZW4gdG8gaGlzIHBlcmZvcm1hbmNlcyB3aGVuIGhlIG9wZW5z IHVwIGZvciB0aGUgRGVhZC4gIEknbGwganVzdCBnbyBvdXQgdG8gdGhlIGNvbmNlc3Npb24g YXJlYSBhbmQgaGFuZyBvdXQgdGlsbCBoZSdzIGRvbmUgZG9pbmcgd2hhdCBoZSB0aGlua3Mg aXMgc28gZ3JlYXQhCgpJIHdvbmRlciBpZiBEeWxhbiB3aWxsIHRyeSB0byBzdG9wIHRhcGVy cyBmcm9tIHRhcGluZyBoaW0gd2hlbiBoZSBjb21lcyBvdXQgYW5kIGpvaW5zIHRoZSBEZWFk IGZvciBhIHNvbmc/ICBIZSBzaG91bGQgZG8gdGhlIHNhbWUgdGhpbmcgYXMgd2FzIGRvbmUg d2hlbiBoZSBtYWtlIGEgZ3Vlc3QgYXBwZWFyYW5jZSB3aXRoIHRoZSBEZWFkIGJhY2sgaW4g MTk5NCBhdCBNU0cgKCBiZWxlYXZlIGl0IHdhcyB0aGUgTW9uZGF5IHNob3cpLiAgTmFtZWx5 LCBoaXMgbWljIHdhcyBuZXZlciB0dXJuZWQgb24hICBZb3Ugc2F3IGhpbSBvbiBzdGFnZSwg YnV0IG5vIG9uZSBoZWFyZCBoaW0uCg== ------------------------------ From: Keith Bode Subject: Digital is not invincible PART IV Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:37:18 -0700 > > >If you make digital copies correctly, and you can hear a difference, I >>suggest either new ears or a new computer. >> >>Seth >> >>------------------------------ > > > >That's right Rick, Sounds like you don't know how to use your computer's >CD-R software to create bit by bit perfect clones! I just hate it when I >get a traded CD-R and some idiot didn't copy it right (example, the disc >isn't DAO recorded) > >I will say that I have experienced CD-Rs that aren't exactly perfect when >they were burned at a high rate of speed. Somewhere the data gets changed >slightly which is probably the differences you are experiencing. But that's >why the software will also let you slow down the burn rate. I no longer >burn above 4x on the computer. A full disc may take 20 minutes to copy from >the hard drive, but it won't have any digital errors either because of the >slower burn rate. > If you have a decent burner, slowing dwn the burn rate to 4x, if it's an 8x or higher is ludicroous, and completely silly. It ma help with junk media, though, but not if the burner and te media are quality products. I have several Plextor's, 1 8x20 CD-R and a couple of 12x10x32 CD-RW's, all SCSI. I have no doubt I have burned over 3,000 CD-R's on the 8x20 and probably another couple of thoousand between tthe 2 12x burner's I have yet to burn at anything but the 8x speed on the 8x and 12x on the 12x. Never had a problem with a burned disc. A 1 or a zero, is a 1 or a zero, at 1x or 12x. I remember reading someting aboout nt burning audio discs faster than 16x or 18x, and where that was escapes me.. >For my most important recordings (like transfer of Live DATs to CD-Rs) I >burn at 1x of course with home audio gear. A Sony DAT deck with fiber optic >out to a Marantz CD Recorder with SCMS turned off. 75 minutes may take 75 >minutes, but at least I can watch to make sure the Track IDs transfer >properly and fade in and out at the being and end of the disc like I want >to, Digitally! > >And because this burner records digitally with a sample rate converter for >48K DATs, when I do dub the first disc and continue on to the tenth disc, >the tenth will sound like the first one exactly because it was done >digitally! > >Like Seth said, better get new ears or a new computer (or home audio gear) > Of the 2 DAT decks I have, 1 does not have a Toslink connector, only Coax. My Delta Dio 2496 has both Coax and Tslink, in and out.. In theory, I do prefer Toslink, but what am, am. Basicly, using an A>D converter(mine is Coax only), or recording from a SPDIF out to the HD, is doing the same thing as recording to yoour Maraantz Standalone, except I wind up with a WAV, which I burn to CD audio. One shortcoming I feel is subssstaial with the standalone is your editing capability is very limited compared to a computer. Keeith ------------------------------ From: Joshua Subject: FS: Tascam DA20 Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:58:26 -0700 (PDT) I'm selling my Tascam DA20 - it's in excellent cosmetic condition with low hours. This one has sat in a rack unused for the last couple years and probably been used for around 100 hours of playback in the last four years. The selling price is $350, firm, and the buyer pays shipping. Thanks! -Josh __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Larry Slavens" Subject: Re: [BUDD] Big brother IS watching... Reply-to: iarooster@earthlink.net Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:01:11 -0500 > if I got up during setbreak and performed Ripple on my acoustic guitar in > front of a crowded bar - nobody could collect any money from me for > playing the song..... No, but the bar is paying ASCAP or BMI a licensing fee that, in the abstract anyway, is supposed to compensate the writers of the songs being played. Some venues have dropped live music because they couldn't (or wouldn't) pay the licensing fee. So maybe no one's collecting money from *you* to play Ripple in a crowded bar, but someone's collecting money from the bar for you playing the song... ------------------------------ From: "Matt Rogers" Subject: FS: Phish Taper ticket 7/25 Charlotte Reply-To: Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:06:48 -0400 I have an extra Phish taper ticket, for face, for Charlotte 7/25. I can meet you at the venue to make the exchange, anyone interested e-mail me off the list. I really want to trade it for a Jones Beach, NY DEAD Taper ticket for 08/08/03 Matt ------------------------------ From: "Matt Rogers" Subject: FS: Denecke AD-20 preamp Reply-To: Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:09:53 -0400 Looking to sell the following: The AD-20 is a high quality battery operated microphone preamp coupled with a low noise 20 bit ADC. The SPDIF outputs are optical and coaxial and can drive standard consumer DAT machines or computers that accept digital audio I/O cards, such as the Zefiro ZA-2. Looking for $300 comes with Sound Professionals Battery sled to power 6+ hours If interested e-mail me off the list. Matt Rogers ------------------------------ From: "Rory Heller" Subject: FT: Charlotte Taper for Taper in Raleigh or Atl- PHISH Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:46:08 -0400 I have a Charlotte Taper ticket that I need to trade for a taper/Pavillion seat in Atlanta or a taper/pavillion in Raleigh. Happy Phishin Rory Rellory2@hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ From: Seth Breidbart Subject: Re: Digital invincible? Dye quality does matter... all CDR's are not equal! Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:34:10 -0400 (EDT) > The obvious points have already been raised about the need to burn > at a slow rate and if extracting wav's from the .cdda files on a CD > or CDR, it's crucial to use EAC with error correction enable and opt > to let it run at whatever speed it needs to to do proper extraction. > It's better still to just trade and burn directly from .shn when > possible but no one has mentioned disc image. If you're copying an > audio CD or CDR direct to make another audio disc, just make a disc > image first and burn from the disc image. How do you read the CD to create the disc image? If you aren't using EAC or its moral equivalent, then the process is subject to errors. > I've done this countless tiems and never > encountered any artifacts. You've re-extracted each copy and done a bitwise comparison? Seth ------------------------------ From: Seth Breidbart Subject: Re: Digital is not invincible PART IV Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:44:19 -0400 (EDT) > Basicly, using an A>D converter(mine is Coax only), or recording from a > SPDIF out to the HD, is doing the same thing as recording to yoour > Maraantz Standalone, No; some standalones take digital input. Recording S/PDIF to the hard drive is digital (if done correctly with proper equipment). Seth ------------------------------ From: Robert Kane Subject: FS: MG mics, V2, MMe, DA-P1, and accessories Reply-To: roekbarnet@ameritech.net Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:55:18 -0400 i have the following gear for sale, everything is in excellent working order. i am looking to sell each section as a package, i am not looking to beak the sections into individual pieces at this time. i will listen to all *reasonable* offers. ******************************************** section 1: mics / accessories pair microtech gefell SMS 2000 bodies pair microtech gefell M21 hyper caps pair microtech gefell M20 card caps pair 15' monster studio pro 1000 xlr cables pair AT 8410 shock mounts pair Shure windscreens (the big ones) Shure A27 bar looking for $1525+shipping ********************************************* section 2: pre-amp / battery Lunatec V2 (w/orig box and manual) Eco-charge batt system (2 6v 7.2ah batts, charger, 2 power cables) pair 5' monster studio pro 1000 xlr cables looking for $825+shipping ********************************************* section 3: A>D / battery Apogee Mini-Me (orig box, manual, ac adapter) Apogee case 3' klone digi-coax cable (connects MMe>P1) pro-digital 12v 7.2ah battery (w/charger and power cable) looking for $1050+shipping ********************************************** section 4: recorder / battery tascam DA-P1 (orig box, manual, internal battery, ac adapter) --(some surface scratches, sticker on bottom), used for about 100 shows) pro-digital 8v 10ah battery (w/charger and power cable) extra eco-charge 6v power cable looking for $950+shipping ********************************************** i will take paypal or postal money order only. email if you have any questions or offers. ~Robert ------------------------------ From: "Gary Davis" Subject: Re: Big Brother? Reply-to: g@hoxnet.com Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:31:21 -0700 Most likely, this email was the result of an automatic computer scanning system which detected the song titles without picking up on the fact that the performance was by a different band. Without contacting the publishing company and/or a copyright lawyer, it's not clear (at least to me) that giving away music recorded by a band that allows it, but written by a band that doesn't, is illegal. U.S. copyright law specifically allows bands to play cover songs without permission or payment, including over radio and television. (Canadian law is different and for this reason, bands are discouraged from playing cover songs on television). But the case of giving away a recording of a cover song may or may not be written into the law or resolved through case history. However, it is a big problem for bands that want to sell their own concert recordings, if they want to play cover songs. I imagine this is a big issue for Phish and that part of the money paid for their downloads goes to this cause. Even so, negotiating with every song owner must be a pain. --Gary ------------------------------ From: "Gary Davis" Subject: Security at Venues Reply-to: g@hoxnet.com Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:35:08 -0700 People often write here to ask what the security's like at venue so- and-so. While there is some value to getting advanced information, be aware that security is very dependent on the band playing. For example, the same venue would have much higher security for a punk or metal band than for an adult-oriented act. And bands that specifically oppose taping (Dylan, King Crimson) probably add their own security requirements to their contracts. Virtually every performance contract (from non-taping-allowed bands) specifically states "The venue will not allow a recording to be made," but some bands may be more stringent in their contract requirements on how this will be enforced. --Gary ------------------------------ From: Randy Vogel Subject: ISO post-production tips Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 01:46:36 -0700 hey now! as of late i've begun to tackle harder problems in creating 'finished' files from my raw recordings. I'd be curious to hear about 'best approaches' and various techniques for solving problems such as.... (1) applying compression to applause between tunes (you know, when the show is really quiet and the audience is really appreciative...) (2) applying gain to improve audibility of spoken comments between tunes (3) analyzing gradual changes in loudness during a tune (like when the house sound is turned up or you're getting levels set over the course of the first few tunes of a show) so as to end up with something where the level changes are less noticeable. (4) removing repetive or semi-repetitive noises (FM hiss, heart-beats (i often tape really quiet music...), squeeky chairs, etc) that are generally well-below the level of the music, but are nonetheless noticeable and distracting. I've been experimenting with Sound Forge 6 for about two years now, and while I can perform simple fixes, I'm sure my techniques could be better. Anyone like to share their skills? Or point me to a source for such info? thanks! BW Tax: B+P copies of the Waybacks 6/27/02 as a 16-bit audio CDR or 24-bit data disk (.ape files) to the first buncha respondents. ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** To unsubscribe from this digest, please send email to dat-heads-unsubscribe@datheads.phish.net If your email address has changed, you may (optionally) send the message to dat-heads-unsubscribe-oldaddress=olddomain@datheads.phish.net and the old address will be removed. Problems or questions about a subscription should be addressed via these avenues and then if needed to dat-heads-owner@datheads.phish.net or postmaster@datheads.phish.net never the list itself You can submit a message for inclusion in the next digest via this address: Internet: dat-heads@datheads.phish.net Archives of DAT-Heads digests and related files are available on the DAT-Heads home page: http://www.solorb.com/dat-heads/ End of DAT-Heads Digest ******************************