DAT-heads Digest #920, Volume #6 Mon, 10 Nov 03 13:50:01 EST Contents: ISO: Eric Clapton and Friends 6/30/99 (Paul & Jen Beichert) FS: Earthworks SR-78 ("Marc Becker") The Matrix Revisited (David Sadowski) FS: Sony POC-DA12P and Core 7 pin cables ("Mike Valencia") matrix and mike going on holiday with some bwt offers (GaoBest@aol.com) Matrix Recording ("DRider") ISO: Howie Day - Nashville 11/09/03 FM broadcast ("c. howell") Matrix recording (pressrun@pacbell.net) Q's about Aerosmith / Kiss Tour ("billy bob") Pat Metheny/11/2/03 needed (John Fink Jr) Strokes 11-09-03, Atlanta (Bill Graham) Need help with Gillian Welch Boston 11/8 please! ("Jim Kelly") Tascam DA P1 For Sale (Joe Galbraith) FT: I Am Kloot, Amsterdam 09.11.2003 ("Bas Ruesink") OT: DVD ( capture problems) ("alf") Sonic Studio DSM-3 Mics ("Cal S.") ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul & Jen Beichert Subject: ISO: Eric Clapton and Friends 6/30/99 Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 22:22:08 -0500 Was going through my collection the other day and pulled out an audience copy of this show. Sonic Studios DSM6 > Sony D7. It's a little noisy with an excited crowd. Does anyone know of better copies, preferably SBD circulating?? Thanks! ------------------------------ From: "Marc Becker" Subject: FS: Earthworks SR-78 Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 22:40:04 -0500 I looking to sell my pair of Earthworks SR-78 Hypercardiod mics. I bought them used and have had them for the past 2 years. I can provide sample recordings if interested. E-mail me at marcdbecker@hotmail.com If I don't get any offers, chances are I'll put them on ebay by the end of the week. _________________________________________________________________ Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ From: David Sadowski Subject: The Matrix Revisited Reply-To: dsadowski@ameritech.net Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 22:21:23 -0600 A "matrix" recording is essentially two different recordings that have been combined. You can combine a soundboard and an audience recording, or two different audience recordings. The results will give more dimensionality to the music, while generally minimizing crowd noise... for the same reason that you might apply two coats of paint to a surface. It can also hide or smooth over any imperfections in one of the two recordings (clipping, distortion, dropouts, gaps, etc.). You will need to have a wave editor with multitrack capability... line up the two recordings visually until they appear synched... and then, through trial and error, get them lined up in such a way that they stay in synch (hopefully) from start to finish. If both recordings are digital, they should (in theory) stay synched. This may or may not be the case, but there are ways to get around that too. The speed of one recording can be tweaked to match the offset from the other. I would suggest making your matrix before editing a recording into individual tracks. That will cut down on the work. Volume levels on each source recording should not peak at 100% normalization as otherwise the matrix will be over 100%. If they are each set at something in the range of 50-60% you should get good results in the end. If your two recordings are slightly misaligned, the result will be echo just like the sort of "slapback" tape delay echo used by Sun Records on the early Elvis Presley recordings. ------------------------------ From: "Mike Valencia" Subject: FS: Sony POC-DA12P and Core 7 pin cables Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:27:29 -0800 I'm selling the following cables together in one bunch: Sony POC-DA12P w/box (7 pin to In/out optical) Core-Sound 7 pin to 7 pin Core-Sound 7 pin to coax (out) Core-Sound 7 pin to coax (in) All work great with the Sony mini Dat decks (ie. M1/D100, etc.). I'm looking for 100.00 obo w/shipping. Will take paypal. If interested, please email me at mzero23 at hotmail.com -Mike _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search... http://shopping.msn.com ------------------------------ From: GaoBest@aol.com Subject: matrix and mike going on holiday with some bwt offers Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 00:16:56 EST Hey people, There have been soundboard/audience matrix recordings done for years - before we all used computers to edit CDRs. We can still use a computer and good software to do a matrix, but most people just took their soundboard and audience sources, and *timed* them manually to make sure that the timing worked. It took work, but it wasn't impossible to do. One of the best matrix recordings was done by Henry (H20 on this list - I traded with him 1992-1995), who did Sebadoh & Unrest in Athens 40wattclub 4-19-93 and 4-20-93 - those cassettes were great although I've not played them in many many years. OK I may be wrong with dates/memory but I remember he did those tapes. Sorry Henry if I let the cat out of the bag, but I'm so proud to see your Chunklet getting mainstream distribution - oh how I knew this former college radio station PD/MD "way back when" :-) In 1994, several filmers/tapers did killer matrix videos of a "famous indie band" where they'd blend the two camera angles (one stage, the other from the desk of the venue w/ zoom lens) of the videos *with* DAT soundboard masters using a mixing desk (yes, you had to buy one of those things which are surely very cheap now) to create the killer "pro-shot" video! It wasn't impossible then, and it can be done now even easier thanks to computers. I don't know how to do it with a computer, but surely just basic software will make an easy matrix. Otherwise do it the old-fashioned way and hook up multiple DAT players with one simple DAT recorder. If they did it in 93/94/etc, then it can still be done :-) Finally, I have previously offered bwt & b/p for Pink Floyd and New Order. I did several, but I am going on holiday for a week so can't do anything else until late November (Thanksgiving era) - sorry but I usually do say on bwt & b/p offers that leadtime is 1 to 365 days (I know one guy has watied almost 2 years, sorry). I haven't forgotten most people, I've just been busy. Sorry. New and old bwt (b/p on japan-made cdr, you supply SASE or at least return address label; don't get greedy because I'm short on time): 1. new order anything Feb 1987 Australia tour (all done D6 & ECM929 or 969 mics) 2. Saint Etienne 11-19-02 Bimbo's 365 (my own M1 & sonics master - not great because I was close to stage, near a simple PA speaker) 3. Pink Floyd "Final Cut" demos 4. Teenage Fanclub (TFC) 11-2-91 NYC (D6 & mics) or 3-10-92 VK (Bruxelles) (D3 & PC62 mic) - both from first generation cassettes 5. Archers of Loaf 1993 demos (from low-generation cassette I got from Alias Records - their first major indie label after "Wrong/South Carolina") total 12 minutes? 6. Burt Bacharach 10-4-00 POFA, SF (2 cdrs) - my own M1 & Sonics recording; of course there were other tapers including 1 Schoeps dude 7. Broadcast 5-8-03 GAMH, SF (my own M1 & Sonics recording) 8. Even As We Speak assd 87/88 Australian gigs or my July 3 '03 BotH show (that show SUCKED - they were much better 1987-1993 than they are now) And thanks as always to Liam Sean Kennedy for keeping this list balanced and going. Happy holidays, stay good. xox Mike In a message dated 11/9/03 7:35:50 PM, DAT-heads-Request@datheads.phish.net writes: << From: "DCA" Subject: Matrix Recording Reply-To: "DCA" Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 12:12:33 -0500 I would also like to know the basics of Matrix recording. I think this is an interesting discussion topic for the list. I have never had the opportunity to make a Matrix recording, and only heard one matrix, but it had a cool 3-D feel to it. I've only heard it mentioned once or twice here on the list. Maybe someone who has done these can breifly explain the procedure, or recommend resources as Karl suugested. Dave >From: "Karl Schneider" >Subject: Matrix Master >Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 01:32:59 -0500 >Could someone enlighten me on making a matrix recording from an audience >and soundboard? Software, book, and website recommendations would also >be helpful. Thanks. >Karl >> ------------------------------ From: "DRider" Subject: Matrix Recording Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 01:02:58 -0500 actually.... if you search the archives you will see that this has been discussed in detail more than a couple ties on the list peace, D ~~~~~ From: "DCA" Subject: Matrix Recording Reply-To: "DCA" Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 12:12:33 -0500 I would also like to know the basics of Matrix recording.... ------------------------------ From: "c. howell" Subject: ISO: Howie Day - Nashville 11/09/03 FM broadcast Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 23:27:32 -0800 (PST) as the subject says, i'm looking for the FM broadcast of the Howie Day show in Nashville 11/09/03, preferably recorded direct from FM to DAT. if you have said FM broadcast, please contact me offlist to possibly set up a trade. thanks!! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ------------------------------ From: pressrun@pacbell.net Subject: Matrix recording Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 02:32:38 -0800 I am by no means a trained sound engineer or anything, but I've made a bunch of matrix tapes using ProTools software. The multi track capability is what makes it simple. I'm not sure how other programs work, but ProTools allows 24 tracks ... way more than you'll ever need. For best results, I always work from DATs. You can extract tracks from a CD and make it work, but because burners differ (and other factors I'm sure) there tends to be time creep, and you end up having to adjust each track slightly differently. When you play the two source DATs straight into your computer, they most often sync up perfectly. So I just create a new track and play the soundboard DAT straight in through S/PDIF cable. Then I create another new track (these are stereo tracks in ProTools, in other programs, it might be that you create a new pair of tracks -- then they spit out SONGNAME.L and SONGNAME.R files (called Split Stereo) that you can glue back together in a burning program)) and I play the audience source DAT in to the computer. Now I've got wave files right above each other and can see roughly where they line up. I grab the file (again, as you can do in ProTools) and slide it so it as closely looks lined up (peaks match peaks, etc). Then you go to your monitoring set up to hear what you've got. At first, you'll be way off, you'll usually hear the two sources separately, almost like an echo. You can hear which one is sounding first, so you grab and move the other one into sync. In ProTools, there is a nudge tool that allows you to make very small movements of the file. So I get it as close as I can by eyesight, then put on the headphones and tap the nudge key until I hear the two versions come together in time (use a vocal part of the song, that's the easiest to sync). At first it'll seem you're in sync, but you're likely not RIGHT ON. Go back and forth, on both sides of the sync point, and you'll hear the vocal change. It'll have a hollow sound if it's just off, it's almost an echo, but not far enough apart to hear the two sources distinctly. As you pass through the sync point, the nature of the vocal will change, the echo-ey sound will disappear and it will sound like a very good strong ordinary vocal. That's your sync point. If you're nudging finely enough (ProTools allows you to go down to the thousandths of a second) you'll actually be able to nudge around all in what sounds like completely synced areas, and you can pick out the exact spot that sounds best to you. It shouldn't really sound echo-ey or 3-D. It should just sound full, and you should be able to hear both sources clearly. At this point you need to decide how much audience and how much soundboard makes the right mix. If the audience is really high quality, I like to mix that higher, and use the soundboard to just bolster the vocals and fill in the instrumental stuff that gets lost in loud spots. So I'll select the whole aud wave file, and increase the gain. If I have a really nicely mixed soundboard, I might want that higher in the mix, and just use the aud to get the sound of the room, and the ambient bass, which always comes in better on aud tapes, especially in small rooms, where the bass isn't always mic'd. So I'd do the reverse, increase the gain on the SBD tape and mix it that way. I've almost always found that when I find that sync point anywhere on the tape, i've got the whole tape synced. But i've also had situations where a tape synced at the start, is a half-second off by the end. ProTools has a new feature that allows you to stretch the time of a file without shifting the pitch. I haven't tried it yet, but it sounds like a miracle. I'm no expert, but that's how I do it. Mike in Berkeley ------------------------------ From: "billy bob" Subject: Q's about Aerosmith / Kiss Tour Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 06:09:25 -0500 Hello, I'm looking for info from anyone who has seen or taped The Aerosmith /Kiss Tour lately. Please email me if you got any advice or can help. I plan to tape them in a couple of weeks. Thanks. Is there an opening act that's before Kiss or Aerosmith? Who usually perfroms first, Kiss or Aerosmith? About how long does Aerosmith perform? under 2 hours? Over 2 hours? About how long does Kiss perform? under 2 hours? Over 2 hours? Thanks. _________________________________________________________________ Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over limit? Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ------------------------------ From: John Fink Jr Subject: Pat Metheny/11/2/03 needed Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:49:06 -0500 Hi Folks, If anyone caught this fantastic show at The State Theater in New Brunswick, please mail me . Plenty to trade!! Be We;;. John ------------------------------ From: Bill Graham Subject: Strokes 11-09-03, Atlanta Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 06:55:12 -0800 (PST) I taped the Strokes Sunday night from about 4' on the left stack, but due to some problems with the DAT, did not get the last 15 minutes of the show. If anyone else taped and happens to have something I can patch the end of my tape with, please get in touch. thanks, -bill __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree ------------------------------ From: "Jim Kelly" Subject: Need help with Gillian Welch Boston 11/8 please! Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:28:09 -0500 Hi folks. I am hoping that I was not the only taper at the Gillian show at Avalon in Boston the other night. I messed up the settings on my deck and missed the first set. If anyone else was taping, or if you know someone who was, I would greatly appreciate some help in tracking this down. I have set 2 and the encore. There were a couple of "we don't normally play this song, but..." intros, so I think it was a fairly unique set. Thanks for any help you can provide! Jim _________________________________________________________________ MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search... http://shopping.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Joe Galbraith Subject: Tascam DA P1 For Sale Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:03:28 -0500 Having pretty much ceased my taping activities, it's time to sell the DA P1. Heads have less than 200 hours on them, excellent condition, well cared for unit. A couple of VERY minor scuff marks on case. Buyer will get: DA P1, OBM, AC power, Ecocharge 2 battery system w/ charger, two cases of UNOPENED KAO Gold tapes (tapes have been kept in cool, dark dry location. Additional FS: 15 ft pair Audio Magic Presto II mic cables. 3 ft pair Audio Magic Excalibur II interconnects w/ XLR's (I used these between a Lunatec V2 and an Apogee ad1000). Please email w/ offers (Please do not email me asking how much I'm looking to get. We all know the going $$$ on this stuff). Low ball offers will be politely ignored. I can be reached at the above addy or slipknot1@comcast.net ------------------------------ From: "Bas Ruesink" Subject: FT: I Am Kloot, Amsterdam 09.11.2003 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:23:19 +0100 Excellent recording, up for trade in SHN (on disc). Used MD (LP) & OKMIIRS ->digi md deck >Terractec 24/96 >SHN. Will trade for other IAK stuff. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ From: "alf" Subject: OT: DVD ( capture problems) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:02:17 +0100 Dramatically OT, I know. But this mailing list have lotsa of kind guys and this post could be a future refering help. As I have lotsa of VHS with many concert masters: I purchased a digital canopus A/V to capture VHS TO HD. I've a audiophile 2496 soundcard and I'm using Vegas 4 (Sonic Foundry) for capture and editing video. While I'm using with no problems audiophile 2496 for DAT>DD (Using soundforge) , I'm in trouble with the VEGAS 4: Infact the audio tracks of video captured have some (few) and smallest drop outs. I'm sure is the use of Vegas (probably I've not properly setted something in preferences. I've also downloaded the last driver of Audiophile, but have same problems..) So , still wondering is a long shot in the dark, any of you are using VEGAS 4 and the audiophile 2496? Please help me: have many great videos and if I'll begin to authoring perfectly those, I'll spread in future. Thanks alot! btw- if I'll fix problem I'll can post here later Thanks! Alf ------------------------------ From: "Cal S." Subject: Sonic Studio DSM-3 Mics Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:37:08 -0500 (EST) I have a set of Sonic Studio DSM-3 condensor stealth mics for sale in pristine condition. Used maybe 30 times and well cared for. They are custom fit for a Sony TCD-3 DAT recorder. The 1st model they put out. I also have a C cell external battery pack for that same DAT player. Trades of anything considered but cash prefered. I apolagize if this is the wrong board to submit this message to. Calvin Sproutzee@yahoo.ca ===== Calv ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** To unsubscribe from this digest, please send email to dat-heads-unsubscribe@datheads.phish.net If your email address has changed, you may (optionally) send the message to dat-heads-unsubscribe-oldaddress=olddomain@datheads.phish.net and the old address will be removed. Problems or questions about a subscription should be addressed via these avenues and then if needed to dat-heads-owner@datheads.phish.net or postmaster@datheads.phish.net never the list itself You can submit a message for inclusion in the next digest via this address: Internet: dat-heads@datheads.phish.net Archives of DAT-Heads digests and related files are available on the DAT-Heads home page: http://www.solorb.com/dat-heads/ End of DAT-Heads Digest ******************************