DAT-heads Digest #72
Contents:
Re: Subject: Opinions on STG ("cjs")
RE: sharing the groove site (Bill Shaw)
Re: Opinions on STG ("Alex Coluzzi")
Re: Opinions on STG ("Wayne Brissette")
Re: Opinions on STG (Meghan House)
RE: Opinions on STG (Barry Lajnwand)
Re: Opinions on STG (Seth Breidbart)
FS: Lunatec V2 ("Paul Chrostowski")
re: stg (gordon wilson)
ISO of Neil Young 1978 William & Mary Hall (Monty Allen)
DAT Liquidation ("Len G")
DAT masters for trade / B&P (Janes Travis Tori Tenacious D) ("Mahn Toh")
From: "cjs" <flyintpot@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: Subject: Opinions on STG
Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 20:25:13 -0500
> From: "Clint Ryan" <cpr12378@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Opinions on STG
> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:01:18 -0600
>
> I wanted to get opinions from other tapers regarding
> www.sharingthegroove.org. I only trade my shows out in audio and put a
> request on my site to not transfer my shows to shn or flac and share them
> over the internet. My problem is that I don't want the entire world to
have
> my show that easily b/c if I decide that I want more shows from that band
it
> makes it that much harder for me to get any more from them.
Are they really your shows? NOT!
You do have a problem alright. It is the idea of wanting to be 'keeper of
the
keys' to get 'more'. So your idea is that listeners need to have it be
difficult
to obtain the music. Again, NOT!
Carl
BWT: Subhumans 02.18.04 or 03.06.04. Both from very charming rigs. First
two replies score.
From: Bill Shaw <Bill.Shaw@hds.com>
Subject: RE: sharing the groove site
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:31:54 -0800
I believe this topic has come up before, and there really is no easy
solution. For tapers (or anyone) who want to maintain any sort of control
over who does or does not get access to their tapes, recordings, etc, or the
distribution format, the only real answer is simply not to trade the show in
question. Or at least not with "strangers" -- like this list, or any other
internet list with members who you do not personally know.
On the one hand I respect your desire to have some sort of control over how
your shows are traded, shared, etc. On the other hand, it almost sounds
like you want to "hoard" some of your recordings. I mean, once it's out
there, it out there! What difference does it make if 5 people have or 50
people have it? What does it matter if they downloaded a SHN file or traded
for an audio CD?
I guess your point is that if a recording ends up online somewhere, it's
value as trade bait in your own collection is diminished. If so, I think
you're being a bit selfish. But don't get me wrong, I feel the same way at
times. I do a lot of taping, and not all of it is appropriate for immediate
public consumption. As a taper I feel like I'm preserving a piece of
history, and as such one of the main reasons I tape at all is to share the
music with fellow heads.
Anyway, when there is a show I have mastered that I want to limit the
distribution of, I simply don't do ANY *internet* trades of that show. I
still share it with my friends, other tapers, etc. But it has got to be
someone I know face to face. Then, after a few months, or whetever, I'll
upload it myself. When a show is fresh, ie: it just happened, people really
want it. After a few months or so, even 6 months or more, the excitement
has likley died down a bit, but the people who still seek it out will
eventually find it.
Anyway that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Your mileage may vary.
> From: "Clint Ryan" <cpr12378@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Opinions on STG
> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:01:18 -0600
>
> I wanted to get opinions from other tapers regarding
> www.sharingthegroove.org. I only trade my shows out in audio
> and put a
> request on my site to not transfer my shows to shn or flac
> and share them
> over the internet. My problem is that I don't want the
> entire world to have
> my show that easily b/c if I decide that I want more shows
> from that band it
> makes it that much harder for me to get any more from them.
>
> I was on there yesterday and found that someone had
> transfered my show to
> shn and posted it. Someone replied to the post and said that
> the taper did
> not want his shows posted and they basically didn't care and
> laughed at him.
> Luckily for me, STG moderators are really cool. When I
> reported it to
> them they immediately shut the topic down and took it off the
> tracker so no
> one else could download it. However over 40 people had
> already grabbed it.
>
[rest of post deleted]
>
From: "Alex Coluzzi" <alex@kabella.org>
Subject: Re: Opinions on STG
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 18:32:42 -0800
I'm sorry that happened Clint but you're going to have to get used to it.
The trading world has changed drastically since most of us started trading.
I know I can remember sending off cassettes for B/Ps and being stoked about
receiving a 3rd or 4th gen copy of a show. Now days it's all about the
Internet and instant gratification. The trading community is overrun by an
entirely new class of people. I'm in a good mood so I won't start swearing
and name calling I promise.
It's basically like this, if you want to keep your recordings out of the
hands of the entire free world, don't give out a single copy, end of story.
If you want to take the risk of someone ripping it to mp3 then back to wav
and finally to shn and of course loosing all the source info along the way
by all means share it.
The only way to beat this type of ignorant behavior which is so common now
thanks to the new class of trader I hinted at above is to beat them at their
own game. Master your recording to your own shn or flac files and distribute
it in that fashion. That way if it does pop up sourced from some janky cd
rip you can point folks to the master source easily.
As far as MP3s well just expect that's going to happen. Only a small
percentage of us are audiophiles and even give a crap, the rest want to get
the shit to their fricking IPOD as fast as humanly possible. I mean even so
called archive.org have gone over to mp3s to appease the idiot masses.
Since I'm starting to veer off to an entirely negative path I'll stop.
Hopefully the above post made some sense.
Alex
> From: "Clint Ryan" <cpr12378@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Opinions on STG
> Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 14:01:18 -0600
>
> I wanted to get opinions from other tapers regarding
> www.sharingthegroove.org. I only trade my shows out in audio and put a
> request on my site to not transfer my shows to shn or flac and share them
> over the internet. My problem is that I don't want the entire world to
have
> my show that easily b/c if I decide that I want more shows from that band
it
> makes it that much harder for me to get any more from them.
>
> I was on there yesterday and found that someone had transfered my show to
> shn and posted it.
From: "Wayne Brissette" <waynefb@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Opinions on STG
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 21:21:24 -0600
Digestifier DAT-heads-Request@datheads.phish.net on 4/2/04 at 19:50 stated:
>I was wondering what everyone else thought about people taking your shows
>that you worked on and spent your money on, and sharing them on a site that
>is so easily accessible by the world? Also, why would you want to post your
>show on there?
>
>Clint
Clint:
While I don't usually use STG (time factor), the whole music archiving is
about sharing the music. Maybe it's because I've been doing this awhile
or that I have a lot of shows that I've recorded, but I don't care about
who puts the show into what format. I've got a bunch of bigger (and
smaller) things to focus my energy on. Personally I think folks do me a
favor by spreading recordings of mine around in different formats; mainly
because I probably wouldn't have done it.
I guess the best advice I can offer you is to take a deep breath and
relax. If somebody doing this to a show you recorded bothers you, then
maybe you need to look for another hobby.
Peace,
Wayne
--
"Success usually comes to those who are too busy to be looking for it"
- Henry David Thoreau
Live DAT & Music Page: http://homepage.mac.com/wayneb/
Wayne's Music Calendar: http://ical.mac.com/wayneb/Music
PowerMail AppleScript Archives: http://homepage.mac.com/wayneb/powermail.html
Music Currently playing:
From: Meghan House <mehouse1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Opinions on STG
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 19:31:08 -0800 (PST)
STG is a great site and the purpose of that site
is to SHARE the music. Many people post their
shows there to share because that's also why
people tape shows- to share with others.
You said you don't want your shows spread easily
because then you feel it will be easier for
people to get shows by that band. Isn't this a
good thing? At the same time, people will begin
trading that band's music and more people will
hear them. Maybe some will post more shows and
then it will be easier for you to get their
shows. My point is, the more that band is traded,
the easier it will be for you to get their shows.
Why tape a show and put it up on your trade list
if you don't want to share/spread it? Once a show
is traded, you really don't have much control
over what others do with it, even if the text
file says do not convert to .mp3, .shn, etc. So
if you don't want your shows on that site, then
maybe you should only trade them to friends. Or
maybe just consider it a compliment that someone
thought your show sounded good and decided to
torrent it so others could enjoy it as well. I
just think taping and trading should be about
sharing and stg is great becuase it allows you to
do so.
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From: Barry Lajnwand <blajnwand@optonline.net>
Subject: RE: Opinions on STG
Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2004 23:08:51 -0500
If you are concerned with having total control of shows that you have
recorded, for whatever reason, then your only real choice is to not trade
out those recordings. Once they are out, they are out, and your control is
lost.
I dropped out of a trading community recently because of this issue but
have since changed my trading ethics to better reflect my ethics in
general. I have realized I care more about sharing music (whether I have
taped it or not) with others and allowing others to have their own autonomy
and agency than I care about having control over shows I have put work into
(whether that control is keeping it uncompressed, being sold, converted to
MP3, etc.). I also realized that my ethics forces me to reject the argument
of mixing my work with the land (in this case, the music) gives me
ownership over said music (as you suggest).
You should realize that your argument seems to lack some consistency
though. You expect people to respect your intent for a particular
recording, yet you are unwilling to respect their intent or use for that
recording. You seem to assign yourself a special status due to the fact
that your work helped create the recording, but even if that is the case,
it can be argued that you gave up that status once you distributed the
recording - unless you had the people you traded the recordings to sign
contracts stating they wouldn't do so and so.
Ultimately, however, it is up to you. No one can force you to do something
you don't want to do (nor should they), and you are free to take a
preventative approach here, but realize that if you don't, that there is
little you can do, and that it is generally useless to prevent something or
complain after-the-fact (and it isn't that you should expect people to
"cross" you or your intent and you therefore don't have a right to
complain, it is that you should realize that you give up some control over
that recording when you distribute it to others, who may have different
intents/uses for that recording). So that's why I share on STG. I don't
mind giving up some control, and I have some hope that people will do "the
right thing". And I like sharing music with other people. I generally have
little in common with others due to my politics, so its nice to be on the
same page with others once in a while.
take care,
Barry
From: Seth Breidbart <sethb@panix.com>
Subject: Re: Opinions on STG
Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2004 23:16:56 -0500 (EST)
There is one case where I'm annoyed that a show I taped was shn'd and
traded without anybody getting in touch with me. The reasons are:
1. I'm easily identifiable as the taper (it's equipment that only I
use)
2. The text file mentions diginoise at a couple of spots.
Before sending those files all over the world, somebody should have
asked me if the masters have that problem.
Other than that, while there are some tapes that I made that I don't
want traded, you (all of you together) don't know they exist. And
until they can be traded freely, you won't. The other hundreds of
tapes I've made and traded (and often treed) you can do what you
want. Just don't lie about things: don't go from .mp3 to .wav, get
the originals.
Seth
From: "Paul Chrostowski" <pchrosto@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: FS: Lunatec V2
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 02:10:01 -0500
Hi,
Posted a few days ago about this V2. Just put it on ebay starting at 500.00.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3715323601
Take Care,
Paul
From: gordon wilson <builtfordreamers23@yahoo.com>
Subject: re: stg
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:57:40 -0800 (PST)
>>>I was wondering what everyone else thought about
people taking your
shows
that you worked on and spent your money on, and
sharing them on a site
that
is so easily accessible by the world? Also, why would
you want to post
your
show on there?>>>
I think it's great! I want my shows to be spread!
what I don't like so much is people making shns/flacs
from random audio disc. but it happens and I have
downloaded a lot of them (most need to be fixed with
shntool), as I couldn't find them elsewhere. why not
shn/flac your shows to begin with and spread them far
and wide for everyone to hear? I understand why you
are pissed (sort of) but you sound like one of tapers
who only tape for themselves and have no interset in
spreading your shows. and if so why??
=====
"No I'm Not Drunk, I'm Just Exausted From Staying Up All Night Drinking" Peter Griffin
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From: Monty Allen <vataper@earthlink.net>
Subject: ISO of Neil Young 1978 William & Mary Hall
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 11:02:23 -0500
I am looking to see if anyone has a copy of Neil Young 1978 William and
Mary Hall.
bwt-My Morning Jacket Jacket 1/24/04 to first 5
thanks
I've always felt rock and roll was very, very wholesome
music.
- Aretha Franklin
From: "Len G" <leng826@hotmail.com>
Subject: DAT Liquidation
Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 17:22:55 -0500
Hello All,
I am liquidating my entire dat collection. I really want this to go to one
person. There are 235 tapes total. I'd like to get $425 plus shipping. A
complete and detailed list is available to any interested person. The tapes
are all 60m and are either labeled sony dgp's, maxell hs4's, or kao gold's.
The lineage is as it came to me at the time of the trade. First come, first
served for this take all proposition. The breakdown of tapes is as follows:
192 Dead
18 JGB and related
14 Miscellaneous bands
11 Sealed maxell hs460 blanks
Thanks for the bw!
Len Greenberg
From: "Mahn Toh" <mahntoh@hotmail.com>
Subject: DAT masters for trade / B&P (Janes Travis Tori Tenacious D)
Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 15:45:46 -0800
The following DAT masters are for trade or B&P as a lot:
Jane's Addiction 7/20/02 San Francisco Warfield - DPA 4061 > D100 @ 48 khz
Howie Day Bill Graham Civic Auditorium San Francisco 12/21/02 - DPA 4061 >
M1 @ 48 khz
Tori Amos Bill Graham Civic Auditorium San Francisco 12/21/02 - DPA 4061 >
M1 @ 48 khz
Remy Zero / Travis San Francisco Warfield 10/25/01 - DPA 4061 > M1 @ 48 khz
Phantom Planet / Tenacious D San Francisco Warfield 10/31/01 - DPA 4061 > M1
@ 48 khz
All shows were mastered on new Sony DG90P tapes and then played back once
for tranfer and stored away.
I'm looking to get rid of them altogether either via a B&P (want 5 brand new
90m Sonys or Maxells), or I can trade the tapes for Radiohead master clones
(basically anything that hasn't popped up on STG or the hub that I don't
have).
Thanks
Ken
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