DAT-heads Digest #192, Volume #7 Sat, 31 Jul 04 01:50:01 EDT Contents: Re: ISO: Crossroads Festival 2004 ("Geetarz") Re: ISO: Crossroads Festival 2004 (Dave Chapman) Battery Operated DVDR/Flash Memory Archiver (Phil Thenstedt) FS: Tascam DA-P1 w/ extended warranty (low hours) (Dave Maley) iso:Jim Hirte (Geoff/Morgan) anyone tape siren 2nd stage or dnc boston shows? (avps) Re: Nomad ("Alan Saferstein") ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Geetarz" Subject: Re: ISO: Crossroads Festival 2004 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 06:58:59 -0400 ===== Original Message ===== From: "Dave Chapman" To: "Geetarz" Cc: Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 10:13 AM Subject: Re: ISO: Crossroads Festival 2004 > Just out of curiousity, what type of digital audio compression was used > by the Sirius satellite broadcasts of Crossroads? > > In Europe, digital radio (on various platforms, including satellite) > uses MPEG-1, Layer II compression, at bitrates varying from as low as > 64kbps mono up to about 256kbps stereo. The most common bitrates used > for music-based stations is 192kbps Stereo or Joint-Stereo. I've done a bit of research and they're actually quite coy about what actual bitrates are used. Having compared them Sirius does seem to be higher quality than XM. Based on what my ears tell me the 192-256 is about where I'd put it. Although on talk based stations they seem to really pull the bottom out of the bandwidth - when a talk show uses music as a bumper, then things really get bad, fast. My interest now - and I am thinking perhaps a list member will have some pointers on where to look up this kind of research - is in wondering if the other 99% of people who don't seem to mind lossy audio either (1) can't hear it or (2) don't care. My curiosity is sparked by recent discoveries that a certain percentage of people are "super tasters" and really can tell the difference for example in different vintages of wine, and the majority of people really aren't stupid or uncaring, it's that they simply don't have the biological tools to be able to tell the difference. Now I'm wondering if the same is true of audio. Every hearing test I've ever taken has dealt only with the actual range of hearing, but not with any qualitative analysis - perhaps most people have the same frequency range of hearing but simply can't hear any detail? With the direction most music is taking, I'd say they are the lucky ones ... ------------------------------ From: Dave Chapman Subject: Re: ISO: Crossroads Festival 2004 Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 12:11:36 +0100 Geetarz wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Chapman" > To: "Geetarz" > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2004 10:13 AM > Subject: Re: ISO: Crossroads Festival 2004 > > > >>Just out of curiousity, what type of digital audio compression was used >>by the Sirius satellite broadcasts of Crossroads? >> >>In Europe, digital radio (on various platforms, including satellite) >>uses MPEG-1, Layer II compression, at bitrates varying from as low as >>64kbps mono up to about 256kbps stereo. The most common bitrates used >>for music-based stations is 192kbps Stereo or Joint-Stereo. > > > I've done a bit of research and they're actually quite coy about what actual > bitrates are used. Having compared them Sirius does seem to be higher > quality than XM. The difference in Europe is that almost every radio station is broadcast free - i.e. no encryption is used. Digital radio also uses the very open "DVB" (digital video broadcasting - also used for "audio-only" services, i.e. radio) and "DAB" (digital audio broadcasting standards). These both use MPEG-1, Layer II audio compression, and PC-based receiver cards are cheaply available that let you record the original compressed bitstreams. Therefore it's very easy to see the bitrates used (and make bit-perfect digital recordings). > My interest now - and I am thinking perhaps a list member will have some > pointers on where to look up this kind of research - is in wondering if the > other 99% of people who don't seem to mind lossy audio either (1) can't hear > it or (2) don't care. My curiosity is sparked by recent discoveries that a > certain percentage of people are "super tasters" and really can tell the > difference for example in different vintages of wine, and the majority of > people really aren't stupid or uncaring, it's that they simply don't have > the biological tools to be able to tell the difference. Now I'm wondering > if the same is true of audio. Every hearing test I've ever taken has dealt > only with the actual range of hearing, but not with any qualitative > analysis - perhaps most people have the same frequency range of hearing but > simply can't hear any detail? With the direction most music is taking, I'd > say they are the lucky ones ... The Forums at http://www.hydrogenaudio.org is one place to go for that. Read about their "ABX" listening tests - basically, it's a methodology for testing if the listener can tell the difference between the original and a "distorted" version of the same recording. You can download software to help you perform these tests yourself - follow the FAQ link at the top of the page. Dave. ------------------------------ From: Phil Thenstedt Subject: Battery Operated DVDR/Flash Memory Archiver Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 08:22:13 -0700 Here's an interesting product which could come in handy for instant-archiving of those multi-day festival recordings. No computer required and battery operated too!! http://www.addonics.com/products/mfr/aemfr842d.asp ------------------------------ From: Dave Maley Subject: FS: Tascam DA-P1 w/ extended warranty (low hours) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 13:00:47 -0400 In an attempt to shrink the size of my rig I've purchased a Sony M1, and I now need to sell my DA-P1. It was purchased new on 10/1/01 with a 4 year extended warranty from Repair Master, which covers the unit through 10/05. Includes the deck, original box, manual, power supply, and internal battery. This deck has very low hours on it (less than 100) and is in great shape, both functionally and cosmetically. I'm looking to get $800 for the deck and it's accessories. I also have a Pro Digital 8v SLA battery pack available for powering the unit in the field. It has a dual cable with connectors for both the DA-P1 and a Sound Devices MP-2 pre-amp. These can be powered individually or simultaneously from the pack. These go for approx $200 new -- I'd like to get $75 for it. And I also have a SonicCase w/ accessory pouch available. These go for approx $175 new -- I'd like to get $75 for this as well. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions. I'd also be glad to provide some digital pictures of the unit if there's interest. Peace, Dave ------------------------------ From: Geoff/Morgan Subject: iso:Jim Hirte Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 17:28:47 -0500 hey Jim, I have a couple Fugazi dats in an envelope for you. Are you out there? Geoff N. ------------------------------ From: avps Subject: anyone tape siren 2nd stage or dnc boston shows? Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 21:20:35 -0400 i got siren main stage. looking for contantines,mission of burma + trail. also private shows from dnc boston. most of these shows had mono press mult feeds available. thx avps@erols.com ------------------------------ From: "Alan Saferstein" Subject: Re: Nomad Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 23:32:14 -0400 Thanks for the great info, but my mileage has varied in a few places. = The file size limit is actually 2 GB, which equals just under 3 hours at = 44.1 or 48 kHz 16 bit. Also, if one battery last under 3 hours, do you really = get two batteries to last 7-8 hours? Personally, I call 2 batteries 5 and a half for-sure hours. I use my D7 as =91back-up=92 too, but for me just as importantly, it = gives me a decent set of level meters. From my experience the JB3 is quite finicky about the digital signal you send it. I have had zero ticks or clicks coming straight out of my Apogee AD-1000 (or the Zefrio InBox I used to own). If I am going to run it out of anything else I put the signal = through an Audio Alchemy DTI first to clean it up. I=92m not sure if it is a = jitter or wave shape issue, but a clean signal (timed properly and square on = the corners) is more likely to get you a tick free recording. I have found = that the (or at least my) JB3 can not work at then end of a digital daisy = chain of decks (sometimes even a chain of one deck) unless I use the DTI = before it, at which point it works like a champ! Alan ===================== From: "Saint Steven" Subject: Nomad Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 07:56:28 -0400 I've used a Nomad Jukebox 3 for live recording for nearly two years. = IMHO, it works at least as well as DAT in terms of reliability. There have = been a couple of recordings with noise introduced, mostly in the form of clicks = and random diginoise, but I would estimate less than 1% of the time. It's = never 'misloaded' a tape, I can promise you that! Once you have done a transfer of a 3 hour show to your hard drive in = under a minute, you'll become a convert. You will need an A/D for phantom powering microphones, and an optical digital output to get digi in to the Nomad, although the analog line-in stage works fairly well when you need it. We've been using the Edirol = UA5, and it's pretty cheap and works like a champ. Level meters on the Nomad suck, although they are better than nothing. I keep meaning to build a little box of LEDs for easier level monitoring, but still haven't gotten around to it. You can record various sampling rates, and maybe bitrates - as far as I know, the Nomad just records the digital signal you feed it (I've fed it 48k, no problem), although I'm sure there are limits to that. Max file = size is 3 GB, unless that's been fixed in a more recent firmware update than = I'm running. With the two internal batteries, you can easily get 7-8 hours = of recording time on a charge. It's tough to get a three-hour show on one internal battery. It also works as a hard drive. You can fill the thing with 20 (or 40 or = 60, depending on the model you get) gigs of shows, take 'em to a friend's = house, and copy them to another computer in minutes. The 60-gig model will = hold about 85 hours of 16-bit / 44.1 khz tunes... I like it. We still run a D8 ('cause we have one, so why not?) in parallel out of = the UA5 as backup, but we almost never so much as play the DAT back. Lots of info here: www.nomadness.net Good luck. ttbb --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.730 / Virus Database: 485 - Release Date: 7/28/2004 =20 ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** To unsubscribe from this digest, please send email to dat-heads-unsubscribe@datheads.phish.net If your email address has changed, you may (optionally) send the message to dat-heads-unsubscribe-oldaddress=olddomain@datheads.phish.net and the old address will be removed. Problems or questions about a subscription should be addressed via these avenues and then if needed to dat-heads-owner@datheads.phish.net or postmaster@datheads.phish.net never the list itself You can submit a message for inclusion in the next digest via this address: Internet: dat-heads@datheads.phish.net Archives of DAT-Heads digests and related files are available on the DAT-Heads home page: http://www.solorb.com/dat-heads/ End of DAT-Heads Digest ******************************