DAT-heads Digest #370

Contents:
  ORTF question (Colin Liston)
  FS: Egosys Waveterminal 2496 (David Minches)
  DVD-A, DTS, and surround sound taping... ("john e. bogus")
  ISO: Richardson (JH)
  FA: Beyer MV-100 (new) (Christian Spiess)
  FA: Core Sound 7pin Combi Cable (Christian Spiess)
  Samson C02 ("Luigi Motta")
  Re: DVD-A, DTS, and surround sound taping... (Dave Chapman)


From: Colin Liston <cliston@cs.utk.edu>
Subject: ORTF question
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:04:04 -0500 (EST)


Okay I realize that ORTF is a stereo taping technique, but I have a 
question/dilemma.

My dilemma is this:

I usually tape in a small club (Freebird Live), the speaker stacks are 
about 21' apart and I usually tape with my mics (DPA 4023's) hanging from 
the balcony about 28' back and I can use either the DPA ORTF bar or a 
regular t-bar .  If I run ORTF then my mics are pointing toward the walls 
of the club, one wall being the bar area, which can get chatty.

My question is this:

Is it better to point my mics at the stacks or run ORTF with my mics not 
pointing at the stacks?

Thanks,
colin





From: David Minches <dminches@comcast.net>
Subject: FS: Egosys Waveterminal 2496
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:54:52 -0500

Egosys Waveterminal 2496 digital audio sound card

24-bit 96kHz AD/DA with 32-bit Internal Resolution
   Waveterminal uses 24-bit 96kHz AD/DA converter with 32-bit internal 
resolution.
32-bit PCI Bus Mastering Support
   With PCI Bus Mastering support, Waveterminal works faster and more 
efficiently than other audio cards - allowing your CPU to allocate more 
resources to your audio programs.
+4 dBu Balanced Analog I/O
   After you've spent all the time and money for the advantages of digital 
audio, you don't want to let it go to waste with mismatched impedance.
Full Duplex Recording & Playback
   Waveterminal can record and playback 4 channels of analog and/or S/PDIF 
digital audio simultaneously.

I am the original owner.  It has worked flawlessly for me, having used it 
to transfer MANY analog and digital masters.  I recently replaced it with a 
Digital audio labs Card Deluxe.

I will include a CD with the current drivers.

$125 obo






From: "john e. bogus" <bogusisme@surfbest.net>
Subject: DVD-A, DTS, and surround sound taping...
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 14:14:49 -0500

"Dave says:  I think this is a very interesting topic that I do not know
much about."

Dave - We're all pretty new at this, as this seems to be the current cutting
edge of field recording, so everyone is just kinda learning as they go
along....now is everyone's chance to get in on surround taping, while it's
still in it's infancy, and make a lasting contribution to the hobby.....

"What type of media(s) are DVD-A amd DTS-Audio-CD recorded on, and where can
one obtain them?"

DVD-A's and DVD-V's are both recorded on standard DVD media....the
difference between DVD-A and DVD-V is simply how the disc is authored and
what is on it.....DTS is a lossy compression method of getting multichannel
audio onto a DVD or regular CD disc media.  DVD-A and DVD-V have different
technical specs (only as to content and how the disc is authored, the DVD
disc, or physical media, is the same in either case), and the authoring
software should be capable of producing a disc in either format.  DVD-A
allows for 6 channels of uncompressed audio at up to 24/96 with slideshow
type video content......DVD-V allows video content, but the audio (again, up
to 6 channels) must be in DTS, Dolby Digital (both are lossy compression
schemes), or Dolby ProLogicII (a matrix method of surround encoding or
decoding which works in the analog realm, sort of a modern version of the
old-school SQ or QS quad encoding) because you can only get so much data
into or out of the disc at once.....the minimum sampling rate for both
formats is 48 khz, so those of you who have been transferring your 48 khz
DAT masters to CD and then getting rid of them have been making a BIG
mistake, as you now have a 48 khz disc based format that offers the speed
and convenience of CD.....  Of course, DVD blanks can be obtained from the
usual blank media sources....

"What type of drive is used for recording?"

I believe any computer DVD burner will work, but as I do not yet have one
myself, I cannot recommend one or tell you which ones, if any, to
avoid.....I'll leave this one for Dan and anyone else currently authoring
DVD's to answer.....actually, the better question would be "which drives to
not have built-in regional encoding, or can have this so-called 'feature'
defeated easily by the authoring software used?"

"How does one record to optimise for these formats (i.e. "taping in
surround")?"

There seem to be two basic methods of doing this:  recording multichannel in
realtime, or assembling the surround recording after the fact from two or
more different sources.  Dan has been going the assembling route, I've been
surround taping in realtime.  For realtime surround taping, there aren't
that many options available right now....the first class way to go would be
a laptop and an interface (basically a fancy A/D converter with usually 8
inputs and a digital output) such as those made by RME or Echo (I think
that's the name of the company making the Layla series), but not only are
you going to lay out some serious cash for this, but I'm personally leery of
dragging somewhat fragile studio quality (with prices to match) gear around
into small, rowdy clubs to tape heavy metal and punk shows.  Multichannel
hard disc type recorders are around, and the prices for used ones are fairly
reasonable, but virtually all the ones I've seen can only record at 44.1
khz, and are thus unsuitable for DVD-A, but would be fine if you don't mind
limiting yourself to DTS CD's.  The new Edirol R4 might be just the ticket,
but I haven't yet heard any user reports from the field, and it's still
fairly pricey.....does anyone have any further info on this unit, beyond
that found on Edirol's website?  Until I can find a suitable "one box"
portable solution, I've been using an old analog Tascam Porta2 4-track
cassette deck in the meantime.....these and similar decks can be had quite
cheaply and provide acceptable results when dbx noise reduction is used.
What's REALLY needed, though, is a digital recorder with at least 4 inputs
that is STEALTHABLE.....perhaps Len or someone else will eventually hear our
 plea and come to the rescue!

"Are more mics used?  In what config?"

I think that asking for 8 separate channels of soundboard feeds would tend
to be highly discouraged at best by soundmen, bands, and club
management......also, soundboard feeds from loud rock shows in small clubs
tend to end up all drums and vocals, so I've been going the all-audience
route for my surround taping.  Granted, this results in an ambient type of
surround recording rather than an immersive type (I haven't yet experimented
on a show that I don't really care about with having all 4 mics onstage),
but the results have been beautiful....the forward stereo image expands,
wrapping around nicely to the sides and seamlessly into the rear channels,
and the recordings actually image the size and shape of the room....the
accuracy and realism is stunning, even with the limitations of the analog
deck used.  My microphone and equipment configuration is as follows:  Front
channels - Nak 300's (card capsules) > D7 (line in, and headphone output
split with Y-adapter) > Tascam Porta2 channels 1&2.  Rear channels - generic
condenser capsules (omni) > Tascam Porta2 channels 3&4.  DV video - D7
(headphone out split) > Canon ZR-60.  A Jenklin-type shield (piece of
cardboard) is clipped to the front of the t-bar to prevent the rear mics
from "seeing" the PA, so that they only capture the out of phase room
ambience.....the omni capsules are then clipped to the rear of the t-bar, 1"
behind the shield with about 4" spacing.  All I need now is to make good on
my New Years' resolution and find a suitable digital multichannel deck, and
get a DVD burner with the appropriate software!  Since most serious tapers
already have a pair of "taping allowed" and a pair of stealth microphones,
it's easy to get started in surround taping for well under $100 by the same
method (all you need is a 4 track cassette deck for $50-75 and a few more
cords and adapters), with no compromises or alterations to your usual stereo
recordings......hopefully this will encourage at least a few of you out
there to give surround taping a try......happy taping!

Yours Truly,
john e. bogus




From: JH <kc7fys@yahoo.com>
Subject: ISO: Richardson
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:49:41 +0900

Howdy,
There's a recordist I'm looking for to help me with an electronic 
project--please pass my email on to Keith Richardson (Boston area?) if you 
know of him, or are him. Thanks,
Jonathan




From: Christian Spiess <christian.j.spiess@gmx.de>
Subject: FA: Beyer MV-100 (new)
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 17:52:03 -0800

It is completely new and in flawless condition. Good luck!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3778144414&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT



From: Christian Spiess <christian.j.spiess@gmx.de>
Subject: FA: Core Sound 7pin Combi Cable
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 21:07:06 -0800

7pin>coax <barrel plug> coax>7pin. Two cables in one, work great for 
transfers, but they're a little too fragile for field work. As I type 
this, they are at $1. No reserve. No buy-it-now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5746239250&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT



From: "Luigi Motta" <luigi.motta@tiscali.it>
Subject: Samson C02
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:38:17 +0100

Hi everybody,
I'm Luigi from Italy. I'm an live taper. I have 2 core sound binaural mic
sets that I usually use with my TCD-D7. Now, a friend of my, is trying to
sell me 2 used samson C02 that I'll cauld use for recordiding in the
situation in which I can set the mic stands an so on. I don't know anything
about these mics. What do you think about these mics? If is there anybody
that have  tried these mics for recordings?

Thank you.

Luigi.





From: Dave Chapman <dave@dchapman.com>
Subject: Re: DVD-A, DTS, and surround sound taping...
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:59:02 +0000

john e. bogus wrote:
> software should be capable of producing a disc in either format.  DVD-A
> allows for 6 channels of uncompressed audio at up to 24/96 with slideshow
> type video content......DVD-V allows video content, but the audio (again, up
> to 6 channels) must be in DTS, Dolby Digital (both are lossy compression
> schemes), or Dolby ProLogicII

Just a pedantic point, but as I'm sure you know, DVD-A can contain
compressed audio, but it's lossless compression (similar to FLAC/SHN,
apart from the fact that encoders cost $3000) called MLP.

MLP is a sort-of optional part of the DVD-Audio specification, which
also supports uncompressed PCM.  I say "sort of", because you MUST keep
the total combined bitrate of all your audio streams under (I think) 9.8
Mbit/s.  So if you want multi-channel high resolution audio, then you
need to buy an MLP encoder.

> .....the minimum sampling rate for both
> formats is 48 khz, so those of you who have been transferring your 48 khz
> DAT masters to CD and then getting rid of them have been making a BIG
> mistake, as you now have a 48 khz disc based format that offers the speed
> and convenience of CD.....  

I agree that anyone who has discarded their 48KHz masters in favour of
44.1KHz CD copies has made a big mistake.  But hopefully no-one has done
that.

However, DVD-A (at the request of the music industry), does allow
44.1KHz (and multiples thereof such as 88.2KHz and 176.4KHz) in addition
to a range of 48KHz-based sampling frequencies.

But you're right in saying that DVD-V only allows 48KHz or 96KHz audio.

Some technical information on the capabilities of DVD-Audio can be found
here:

http://www.hodie-world.com/dvdtech1.html

Dave.


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