DAT-heads Digest #392, Volume #7 Tue, 15 Feb 05 11:50:01 EST Contents: Great stereo of people in the crowd, or the band? ("Gary Davis") Re: 32 kHz recording / OKM II r (Sebastian Boschert) Re: 32 kHz recording / OKM II r (Seth Breidbart) Re: 32 kHz recording / OKM II r (Eugene Hu) help wanted - looking for an old trader (shane b) ISO Tapers: RAQ (SnowRide@aol.com) Any Extras for the Chicago Widespread Panic run?? ("Joe & Gen Reed") Re-use of dat tapes (pstoltz1@tiscali.se) WILCO TICKETS - DC ("Bob S.") for sale (Colin Liston) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Gary Davis" Subject: Great stereo of people in the crowd, or the band? Reply-to: g@hoxnet.com Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:46:07 -0800 Quoting from a review of a multi-channel Dead tape: "the sound of the room just blooms when individual members of the crowd start yelling requests. It sounds like the first "recognizable" "Dark Star" request is coming from about 20 feet in front and to my right. Then there are a pair of "Dark Stars" about 2 rows behind and 10 feet to my right. Then someone on my left, fairly close, yells "Box of Rain" loud enough to bounce off the walls!!!!!!" This, I'm afraid, demonstrates one of the primary problems with recording "stereo" from the audience, regardless of the quality of the mics, whether using 2 mics of 5 mics, whether recording from right in front of the soundboard or from inside the bathroom. Regardless of how good your gear is, the main "stereo" you pick up will be the crowd, not the band. The second "stereo" thing you might pick up is the "sound" of the room from that exact spot, but this "sound" really isn't an attribute of the music being played that night; it's just how your mics interacted with that exact spot in the room and the crowd around you; ie, you could create a room sound just as appropriate and much cleaner in "post-production". Which is why, I have recently been making most of my recordings with PZM mics on the stage. Of course, this cannot be done for all sorts of shows, and works best only if the sound really is coming from the instruments on the stage, but, these cheap mics can give you "real stereo" of the band very easily. When I only used 2 PZMs, you want to put them pretty close together (12-20 inches) to reduce the "hole in the middle" effect. But I'm now using 3 PZMs so I can space them farther apart, and mix the middle mic in the middle. I've experimented using a multi- track recorder so I could set the level of the middle mic in post- production, and I determined that the best level for the middle mic, when I'm mixing live, is just a SMIDGEN below the L&R mics, ie, if the L&R are set at "7", I'll set the center at 6.5. I'm using the little battery-powered Roland MX-5 mixer for this. Finally, if there are vocals, run a mono soundboard feed into the mix to capture those. A separate mic for the bass guitar has also proven a good idea. So you might end up with: L,C,R PZMs SM57 on the bass (or a better mic designed for bass) mono soundboard feed. Including the mixer, this is a rig you can put together for about $300, and if you have the opportunity to place the mics close-up, the stereo & clarity will blow the pants off any recording you can make from the room. Like A/D, I'll be happy to send a sample recording to anyone with a return envelope and a few stamps (your choice: 50's jazz or crazy 2005 jazz). You will not need any fancy multi-channel equipment to play it, just a stereo. Sorry, I have not had the opportunity to record the Grateful Dead this way, but coincidentally, one of my recent shows did include a request for Dark Star, which was performed ;-) --Gary ------------------------------ From: Sebastian Boschert Subject: Re: 32 kHz recording / OKM II r Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:38:44 +0100 Hi Jonathan, > could someone tell me about the exact effect of > recording with a 32kHz frequency..? I know it's > supposed to be inferior to 44.1kHz and 48kHz of > course, but how would a 32khz rec sound if we compare > it to a 44.1 rec, taped in the same conditions with > same material..? > I've heard it had a slight "bass cut" effect...is that > right? Yeah, some frequencies will be cut off. However, I can't tell you exactly which frequencies are affected by this. > BTW I would ask OKM II R users if they are satisfied > with all the bass it catches? I think they're often a > little too much present, so I'm looking for some help > to reduce them (I precise that the OKM bass roll-off > is just CRAP) The -20dB pad supposedly cuts of some bass, so you might want to try that... I usually get excellent results when recording with the -20dB pad *directly* in front of the speaker stacks (first row), with the mics pointing forward towards the speakers. Don't forget your earplugs, though ;) Listen to this for an example: http://209.15.25.60/timeofyourlife.mp3 - Sebastian ------------------------------ From: Seth Breidbart Subject: Re: 32 kHz recording / OKM II r Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:43:23 -0500 (EST) Reynaud Jonathan wrote: > could someone tell me about the exact effect of > recording with a 32kHz frequency..? There are 2 flavors of 32kHz on dat. There's 16-bit, which just cuts off around 16kHz (nothing above that is recorded). Many people can't hear that high anyway. Many people can. Then there's 12-bit non-linear (as seen on Sony dat decks). That not only cuts off at 16 kHz, but it's less accurate below it. Its advantage is running the tape at half speed. Seth ------------------------------ From: Eugene Hu Subject: Re: 32 kHz recording / OKM II r Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:47:35 -0800 > could someone tell me about the exact effect of > recording with a 32kHz frequency..? I know it's > supposed to be inferior to 44.1kHz and 48kHz of > course, but how would a 32khz rec sound if we compare > it to a 44.1 rec, taped in the same conditions with > same material..? > I've heard it had a slight "bass cut" effect...is that > right? IME, the most noticeable difference is a "treble cut", which makes sense since everything over 16kHz gets cut. I accidentally switched sample rate when rushing a tape change once and the difference is not subtle. I didn't listen for more subtle effects. -Eugene ------------------------------ From: shane b Subject: help wanted - looking for an old trader Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:57:22 -0800 (PST) hi there folks i'm searching for this old trader can anybody please help, i'll send you a few discs if you can hook me up thanks shane Email: Memo8@aol.com UPDATED 12/12/99 http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/expostfacto/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------ From: SnowRide@aol.com Subject: ISO Tapers: RAQ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:12:12 -0500 Hey gang, Get intouch if you can cover any of these. Guest list spot can be provided for anyone running a rig. Thanks, Cliff TUE 02/15/05 8150 - Vail, CO 143 East Meadow Drive 970-479-0607 21+ / 10pm Start WED 02/16/05 The Fox Theatre - Boulder, CO 1135 13th St. 303-443-3399 All Ages / 9pm Start THU 02/17/05 Sherpa & Yeti's - Breckenridge, CO 320 S. Main St. 970.547.9299 21+ / 10pm Start FRI 02/18/05 Cervante's Ballroom - Denver, CO 2637 Welton St. 303-297-1772 18+ / 10pm Start SAT 02/19/05 The Starlight - Ft. Collins, CO 167 N. College Ave. 970-484-4974 18+ / 10pm Start TUE 02/22/05 Tractor Tavern - Seattle, WA 5213 Ballard Ave NW 206.789.3599 21+ / 10pm Start WED 02/23/05 The Good Foot - Portland, OR 2845 SE Stark 503-239-9292 21+ / 9pm Start w/ Lotus THU 02/24/05 Sapphire Palace @ Blue Lake Casino - Blue Lake, CA 777 Casino Way 707-668-9770 X 1149 21+ / 9pm Start FRI 02/25/05 Galaxies - San Francisco, CA 2565 Mission Street 415-970-9777 21+ / 10pm Start SUN 02/27/05 Whiskey A Go Go - West Hollywood, CA 8901 West Sunset Boulevard 310-652-4202 All Ages / 11pm Start MARCH 2005 WED 03/02/05 Sticky Fingerz - Little Rock, AR 107 Commerce 501.372.7707 21+ / 10pm Start THU 03/03/05 Zydeco's - Birmingham, AL 2001 15th Avenue South (205) 933-1032 18+ / 9pm Doors FRI 03/04/05 The Tabernacle - Atlanta, GA 152 Luckie Street 404.659.9022 SAT 03/05/05 Visulite Theatre - Charlotte, NC 1615 Elizabeth Ave 704-358-9200 -- "ain't no crystal gazing..." http://deadphiles.org/%7Ecliff/raqmusic.htm ------------------------------ From: "Joe & Gen Reed" Subject: Any Extras for the Chicago Widespread Panic run?? Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:26:06 -0600 looking for extras for the thurs.-Sat. april 7-9 Panic shows at the Chicago theater. let me know if you have any. thanks, joe.com ------------------------------ From: pstoltz1@tiscali.se Subject: Re-use of dat tapes Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 07:55:12 +0100 Have a question regarding re-use of a dat tape. I am lucky enough to live where audio dat tapes cost (if I am lucky enough to find any in the store here) around 20$ a piece (5-6$ for dds) so I am wondering if there are big issues with re-using a tape that has been recorded on once. Will a tape that has been erased on a degausing machine perform like a new tape? Interested in opinions. I always try getting the quality as good as it can get, so if this is a quality drop or risk of, I won't do it. Thanks for your help! -Per ------------------------------ From: "Bob S." Subject: WILCO TICKETS - DC Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:50:06 -0500 posting for a friend, please respond to HIM. thanks Subject: Wilco Tickets for 9:30 Club 2/23 & 2/24 I need one ticket for Thursday's nite's (2/24) Wilco show at the 9:30 Club in Washington, DC. If you can help out, please e-mail Marc at: julsay2001@yahoo.com I also have one extra ticket to offer anyone for face value & service charges for the Wednesday nite (2/23) show at the same venue. For this ticket, please contact Marc at the same e-mail address: julsay2001@yahoo.com Thanks very much & I look forward to hearing from you soon. Best Regards! Marc _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ From: Colin Liston Subject: for sale Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:36:20 -0500 (EST) I have a Zefiro Inbox and a Graham Patten ADC-20 44.1 version for sale Please contact me privately thanks colin ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** To unsubscribe from this digest, please send email to dat-heads-unsubscribe@datheads.phish.net If your email address has changed, you may (optionally) send the message to dat-heads-unsubscribe-oldaddress=olddomain@datheads.phish.net and the old address will be removed. 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