DAT-heads Digest #392
Contents:
Great stereo of people in the crowd, or the band? ("Gary Davis")
Re: 32 kHz recording / OKM II r (Sebastian Boschert)
Re: 32 kHz recording / OKM II r (Seth Breidbart)
Re: 32 kHz recording / OKM II r (Eugene Hu)
help wanted - looking for an old trader (shane b)
ISO Tapers: RAQ (SnowRide@aol.com)
Any Extras for the Chicago Widespread Panic run?? ("Joe & Gen Reed")
Re-use of dat tapes (pstoltz1@tiscali.se)
WILCO TICKETS - DC ("Bob S.")
for sale (Colin Liston)
From: "Gary Davis" <g@hoxnet.com>
Subject: Great stereo of people in the crowd, or the band?
Reply-to: g@hoxnet.com
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:46:07 -0800
Quoting from a review of a multi-channel Dead tape:
"the sound of the room just blooms when individual members of the
crowd start yelling requests. It sounds like the first "recognizable"
"Dark Star" request is coming from about 20 feet in front and to my
right. Then there are a pair of "Dark Stars" about 2 rows behind
and 10 feet to my right. Then someone on my left, fairly close,
yells "Box of Rain" loud enough to bounce off the walls!!!!!!"
This, I'm afraid, demonstrates one of the primary problems with
recording "stereo" from the audience, regardless of the quality of
the mics, whether using 2 mics of 5 mics, whether recording from
right in front of the soundboard or from inside the bathroom.
Regardless of how good your gear is, the main "stereo" you pick
up will be the crowd, not the band. The second "stereo" thing you
might pick up is the "sound" of the room from that exact spot, but
this "sound" really isn't an attribute of the music being played that
night; it's just how your mics interacted with that exact spot in the
room and the crowd around you; ie, you could create a room sound
just as appropriate and much cleaner in "post-production".
Which is why, I have recently been making most of my recordings
with PZM mics on the stage. Of course, this cannot be done for all
sorts of shows, and works best only if the sound really is coming
from the instruments on the stage, but, these cheap mics can give
you "real stereo" of the band very easily.
When I only used 2 PZMs, you want to put them pretty close
together (12-20 inches) to reduce the "hole in the middle" effect.
But I'm now using 3 PZMs so I can space them farther apart, and
mix the middle mic in the middle. I've experimented using a multi-
track recorder so I could set the level of the middle mic in post-
production, and I determined that the best level for the middle mic,
when I'm mixing live, is just a SMIDGEN below the L&R mics, ie, if
the L&R are set at "7", I'll set the center at 6.5. I'm using the little
battery-powered Roland MX-5 mixer for this.
Finally, if there are vocals, run a mono soundboard feed into the
mix to capture those. A separate mic for the bass guitar has also
proven a good idea. So you might end up with:
L,C,R PZMs
SM57 on the bass (or a better mic designed for bass)
mono soundboard feed.
Including the mixer, this is a rig you can put together for about
$300, and if you have the opportunity to place the mics close-up,
the stereo & clarity will blow the pants off any recording you can
make from the room.
Like A/D, I'll be happy to send a sample recording to anyone with a
return envelope and a few stamps (your choice: 50's jazz or crazy
2005 jazz). You will not need any fancy multi-channel equipment
to play it, just a stereo.
Sorry, I have not had the opportunity to record the Grateful Dead
this way, but coincidentally, one of my recent shows did include a
request for Dark Star, which was performed ;-)
--Gary
From: Sebastian Boschert <sebi@foo.dyndns.org>
Subject: Re: 32 kHz recording / OKM II r
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:38:44 +0100
Hi Jonathan,
> could someone tell me about the exact effect of
> recording with a 32kHz frequency..? I know it's
> supposed to be inferior to 44.1kHz and 48kHz of
> course, but how would a 32khz rec sound if we compare
> it to a 44.1 rec, taped in the same conditions with
> same material..?
> I've heard it had a slight "bass cut" effect...is that
> right?
Yeah, some frequencies will be cut off. However, I can't tell you
exactly which frequencies are affected by this.
> BTW I would ask OKM II R users if they are satisfied
> with all the bass it catches? I think they're often a
> little too much present, so I'm looking for some help
> to reduce them (I precise that the OKM bass roll-off
> is just CRAP)
The -20dB pad supposedly cuts of some bass, so you might want to try that...
I usually get excellent results when recording with the -20dB pad
*directly* in front of the speaker stacks (first row), with the mics
pointing forward towards the speakers. Don't forget your earplugs, though ;)
Listen to this for an example: http://209.15.25.60/timeofyourlife.mp3
- Sebastian
From: Seth Breidbart <sethb@panix.com>
Subject: Re: 32 kHz recording / OKM II r
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:43:23 -0500 (EST)
Reynaud Jonathan <j_r_cobain@yahoo.fr> wrote:
> could someone tell me about the exact effect of
> recording with a 32kHz frequency..?
There are 2 flavors of 32kHz on dat. There's 16-bit, which just cuts
off around 16kHz (nothing above that is recorded). Many people can't
hear that high anyway. Many people can.
Then there's 12-bit non-linear (as seen on Sony dat decks). That not
only cuts off at 16 kHz, but it's less accurate below it. Its
advantage is running the tape at half speed.
Seth
From: Eugene Hu <eugene@overture.com>
Subject: Re: 32 kHz recording / OKM II r
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:47:35 -0800
> could someone tell me about the exact effect of
> recording with a 32kHz frequency..? I know it's
> supposed to be inferior to 44.1kHz and 48kHz of
> course, but how would a 32khz rec sound if we compare
> it to a 44.1 rec, taped in the same conditions with
> same material..?
> I've heard it had a slight "bass cut" effect...is that
> right?
IME, the most noticeable difference is a "treble cut", which
makes sense since everything over 16kHz gets cut. I accidentally
switched sample rate when rushing a tape change once and the
difference is not subtle. I didn't listen for more subtle effects.
-Eugene
From: shane b <dronelistee@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: help wanted - looking for an old trader
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 13:57:22 -0800 (PST)
hi there folks
i'm searching for this old trader can anybody please
help, i'll send you a few discs if you can hook me up
thanks
shane
Email: Memo8@aol.com
UPDATED 12/12/99
http://www.angelfire.com/fl2/expostfacto/index.html
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From: SnowRide@aol.com
Subject: ISO Tapers: RAQ
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:12:12 -0500
Hey gang,
Get intouch if you can cover any of these. Guest list spot can be provided for anyone running a rig.
Thanks,
Cliff
TUE 02/15/05 8150 - Vail, CO
143 East Meadow Drive
970-479-0607
21+ / 10pm Start
WED 02/16/05 The Fox Theatre - Boulder, CO
1135 13th St.
303-443-3399
All Ages / 9pm Start
THU 02/17/05 Sherpa & Yeti's - Breckenridge, CO
320 S. Main St.
970.547.9299
21+ / 10pm Start
FRI 02/18/05 Cervante's Ballroom - Denver, CO
2637 Welton St.
303-297-1772
18+ / 10pm Start
SAT 02/19/05 The Starlight - Ft. Collins, CO
167 N. College Ave.
970-484-4974
18+ / 10pm Start
TUE 02/22/05 Tractor Tavern - Seattle, WA
5213 Ballard Ave NW
206.789.3599
21+ / 10pm Start
WED 02/23/05 The Good Foot - Portland, OR
2845 SE Stark
503-239-9292
21+ / 9pm Start
w/ Lotus
THU 02/24/05 Sapphire Palace @ Blue Lake Casino - Blue Lake, CA
777 Casino Way
707-668-9770 X 1149
21+ / 9pm Start
FRI 02/25/05 Galaxies - San Francisco, CA
2565 Mission Street
415-970-9777
21+ / 10pm Start
SUN 02/27/05 Whiskey A Go Go - West Hollywood, CA
8901 West Sunset Boulevard
310-652-4202
All Ages / 11pm Start
MARCH 2005
WED 03/02/05 Sticky Fingerz - Little Rock, AR
107 Commerce
501.372.7707
21+ / 10pm Start
THU 03/03/05 Zydeco's - Birmingham, AL
2001 15th Avenue South
(205) 933-1032
18+ / 9pm Doors
FRI 03/04/05 The Tabernacle - Atlanta, GA
152 Luckie Street
404.659.9022
SAT 03/05/05 Visulite Theatre - Charlotte, NC
1615 Elizabeth Ave
704-358-9200
--
"ain't no crystal gazing..."
http://deadphiles.org/%7Ecliff/raqmusic.htm
From: "Joe & Gen Reed" <patchnbrit@wi.rr.com>
Subject: Any Extras for the Chicago Widespread Panic run??
Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:26:06 -0600
looking for extras for the thurs.-Sat. april 7-9 Panic shows at the Chicago
theater. let me know if you have any. thanks, joe.com
From: pstoltz1@tiscali.se
Subject: Re-use of dat tapes
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 07:55:12 +0100
Have a question regarding re-use of a dat tape. I am lucky enough
to live where audio dat tapes cost (if I am lucky enough to find
any in the store here) around 20$ a piece (5-6$ for dds) so
I am wondering if there are big issues with re-using a tape
that has been recorded on once.
Will a tape that has been erased on a degausing machine
perform like a new tape? Interested in opinions. I always
try getting the quality as good as it can get, so
if this is a quality drop or risk of, I won't do it.
Thanks for your help!
-Per
From: "Bob S." <onalimb@hotmail.com>
Subject: WILCO TICKETS - DC
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:50:06 -0500
posting for a friend, please respond to HIM. thanks
Subject: Wilco Tickets for 9:30 Club 2/23 & 2/24
I need one ticket for Thursday's nite's (2/24) Wilco show at the 9:30 Club
in Washington, DC. If you can help out, please e-mail Marc at:
julsay2001@yahoo.com
I also have one extra ticket to offer anyone for face value & service
charges for the Wednesday nite (2/23) show at the same venue. For this
ticket, please contact Marc at the same e-mail address:
julsay2001@yahoo.com
Thanks very much & I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Best Regards!
Marc
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From: Colin Liston <cliston@cs.utk.edu>
Subject: for sale
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:36:20 -0500 (EST)
I have a Zefiro Inbox and a Graham Patten ADC-20 44.1 version for sale
Please contact me privately
thanks
colin
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