DAT-heads Digest #797

Contents:
  Re: Subject: cardiod stealth lav questions ("Martin")
  RE: Subject: cardiod stealth lav questions ("Bob Griesel")
  FS: AT822 + AD-20 + Phantom power + more (Greg Teltschik)


From: "Martin" <mwk_public@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Subject: cardiod stealth lav questions
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 11:13:46 +0100

A couple thoughts about BobG's thoughts:

BobG -->Proximity effect is a reality with cardioids, but usually does not
become part of the equation so long as the distance is measured in feet.
<SNIP>  Many cardioids sound wonderful on-axis, and when used close enough
to the source (like, measured in inches) the off-axis response is not very
noticeable. But, when used at distances measured in feet, the off-axis
source levelcan be almost as loud as what's in front of the mic.

MK> Very interesting.  I was unaware of this.

BobG --> You can predict which cardioid mics have good off-axis sound.  Just
look at the polar frequency response
charts.  A really good mic will have response circles that are almost the
same at all frequencies.  A lousy mic will have response circles that vary
greatly from frequency to frequency.

MK > I am going to differ with you on this.  You have to be careful with the
operation definition of "Goodness."  According to your criteria, the AKG
D112 would be a lousy sounding mic.  On the contrary, the D112 is legendary
(to record kick drums).  Granted, I would not consider the D112 as a stereo
pair.  However to dismiss its potential based entirely on response circles
would be very misleading in this instance.  Irregular off-axis response may
be

BobG -->It is the main reason folks will spend big bucks on mics (whether
that is understood by the purchaser or not).

MK> I have always thought it quite silly to spend $4,000 on a pair of mics
to take into a bar/club/concert hall for live amplified music with people
smoking, drinking, and people whistling.  I suppose if you want stellar
reproduction of the drunk 2 rows behind oneself this is the way to go.
Pragmatically, I think such a situation calls for cheap mics, no matter what
the polar plot looks like.  Unless one is recording a choir at Mechanics
Hall, expensive microphones are often about ego.

-M




From: "Bob Griesel" <sundance@olywa.net>
Subject: RE: Subject: cardiod stealth lav questions
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:45:40 -0700

A good discussion.  We haven't had one on Dat-heads in a while . . .


BobG --> You can predict which cardioid mics have good off-axis sound.
Just
look at the polar frequency response
charts.  A really good mic will have response circles that are almost
the
same at all frequencies.  A lousy mic will have response circles that
vary
greatly from frequency to frequency.

MK > I am going to differ with you on this.  You have to be careful with
the
operation definition of "Goodness."  According to your criteria, the AKG
D112 would be a lousy sounding mic.  On the contrary, the D112 is
legendary
(to record kick drums).  Granted, I would not consider the D112 as a
stereo
pair.  However to dismiss its potential based entirely on response
circles
would be very misleading in this instance.  Irregular off-axis response
may
be

BobG reply:  Actually, I think we agree here.  The D112 is a wonderful
mic
when used up close to the source - 'specially if the source is a kick
drum.
My "goodness" criteria applies pretty well if the mic is being
considered for
audience recording.  In other words, the importance of off-axis
response/
coloration increases as the distance from the sound source increases.

BobG -->It is the main reason folks will spend big bucks on mics
(whether
that is understood by the purchaser or not).

MK> I have always thought it quite silly to spend $4,000 on a pair of
mics
to take into a bar/club/concert hall for live amplified music with
people
smoking, drinking, and people whistling.  I suppose if you want stellar
reproduction of the drunk 2 rows behind oneself this is the way to go.
Pragmatically, I think such a situation calls for cheap mics, no matter
what
the polar plot looks like.  Unless one is recording a choir at Mechanics
Hall, expensive microphones are often about ego.

BobG reply:  Hard to argue here since this gets into the subjective area
of personal values, creativity, and - yes - ego.  On one hand, the $4000
pair of mics is absolutely the best defense against off-axis coloration.
But, your point is well taken; good off-axis response is wasted on the
drunk next door.  High end mics provide the best acoustic picture of
the sound in the room - but this does not necessarily make that picture
a pretty one.  :)   As we know, the sound at a concert is often pretty
bad.
Even cheap mics usually exceed concert sound quality.   It's a bit
ironic
that a mic good enough to have desirable off-axis response will be
much better than necessary in every other respect.  I got better tapes
with 4021s in my hat than with Oade omni micros on my glasses, but
in the end the recordings were only as good as sound in the recording
environment (including the all-too-frequent drunk).  At the end of the
day, my 4021s have been sold; the Oades are still with me.






From: Greg Teltschik <gteltschik@mindspring.com>
Subject: FS: AT822 + AD-20 + Phantom power + more
Reply-To: Greg Teltschik <gteltschik@mindspring.com>
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 15:04:57 -0400 (EDT)

Selling off a few recording items I no longer use:

Audio Technica AT-822 stereo mic - $130, (new these are $250)
-excellent condition, with all original accessories included, no box

Deneke AD-20 A-to-D $100 (new at $325)
- bought used from a fellow DAT-head but never used - I had plans, but they fell through

Stewart BPS-1 battery powered phantom power - $50 each (2)
- again, never used.  one is in great condition, the other has a few cosmetic scratches

Rolls PB23 phantom power supplies - $15 each (2) (currently $35 each or so)
- can run off 12v dc power
- I used these once while waiting for my dual channel phantom power to arrive

M-Audio CO-3 - $100 (~$200 new)
- the famous SCMS stripper.  great for copies and transfers

Sony RMR-D100 $100
- external box that provides coax and optical digital outs for the D8, D100, etc.
- some scratches on top, but otherwise works, remote included

Sony RK-DA10P $100 obo
- original Sony coax out cable, impossible to find now
- works with D100, M1
- unlike the third party cables, this includes the metal shield around it and is active
- Oade used to mod these cables, guessing it can still be done

I haven't decided on a price, but people are welcome to make offers on:

Sony SBM-1 unmodded
Sony D100 DAT deck - my secondary deck, rarely used since M1 came out
Tascam DA-302 dual deck with wired remote, balanced digital in/outs added
M-Audio Delta 1010 computer interface

Shipping, etc. to be determined case by case.
I'll try and answer any questions.

Greg
gteltschik@mindspring.com

Greg Teltschik
gteltschik@mindspring.com


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